Assassin or Slayer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assassin or Slayer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
eventhorizon
02-12-04, 07:23 AM I like the idea of the Slayer of Domiel Prc but I am wondering if it is as powerful as the assassin Prc.

I've put together two builds that use Invisible blade and would like some comments on which is more powerful.

If you want to suggest better Slayer or Assassin builds please do but bear in mind that I like to max out at least one Prestige Class (either slayer or assassin in this case)

3.5 Assassin
Rogue 3/ Invisible Blade 5/ Assassin 10.
Hit Dice = 6+19D6 (Fixed =72 );
BAB = +15/+10/+5; Saves = +5/+15/+5;
Requirements = .
Sources = Core 3.5, CW.

Race = Human.

1. Rog 1: Sneak Attack +1D6, Trapfinding, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot.
2. Rog 2: Evasion.
3. Rog 3: Sneak Attack +2D6, Trap Sense +1, Weapon Focus (Dagger).
4. Rog 4: Uncanny Dodge.
5. Rog 5: Sneak Attack +3D6
6. Rog 5/ IvB 1: Dagger Sneak Attack +1D6(+4D6), Unfettered Defence, Weapon Finesse.
7. Rog 5/ IvB 2: Bleeding Wound.
8. Rog 5/ IvB 3: Dagger Sneak Attack +2D6(+5D6), Uncanny Feint (move action).
9. Rog 5/ IvB 4: Feint Mastery, FEAT.
10. Rog 5/ IvB 5: Dagger Sneak Attack +3D6(+6D6), Uncanny Feint (free action).
11. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 1: Sneak Attack +4D6(+9D6), Death Attack, Poison Use.
12. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 2: +1 Save Against Poison, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Raptor School (Tactical).
13. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 3: Sneak Attack +5D6(+8D6)
14. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 4: +2 Save Against Poison, .
15. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 5: Sneak Attack +6D6(+9D6), FEAT.
16. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 6: +3 Save Against Poison, .
17. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 7: Sneak Attack +7D6(+10D6)
18. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 8: +4 Save Against Poison, Hide in Plain Sight, FEAT.
19. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 9: Sneak Attack +8D6(+11D6)
20. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 10: +5 Save Against Poison.

3.5 Slayer of Domiel Build
Rogue 3/ Fighter 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Slayer of Domiel 10.
Hit Dice = 6+2D10+17D6 (Fixed = 83);
BAB = +16/+11/+6/+1; Saves +8/+14/+5;
Requirements = .
Sources = Core 3.5, CW, BOED.

Race = Human.

1. Rog 1: Sneak Attack +1D6, Trapfinding, Point Blank Shot, Nymphs Kiss.
2. Rog 1/ Ftr 1: Weapon Finesse.
3. Rog 2/ Ftr 1: Evasion, Far Shot.
4. Rog 2/ Ftr 2: Weapon Focus (Dagger).
5. Rog 3/ Ftr 2: Sneak Attack +2D6, Trap Sense +1.
6. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 1: Dagger Sneak Attack +1D6(+3D6), Unfettered Defence, Sanctify Martial Strike.
7. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 2: Bleeding Wound.
8. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 3: Dagger Sneak Attack +2D6(+4D6), Uncanny Feint (move action).
9. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 4: Feint Mastery, Servant of the Heavens.
10. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5: Dagger Sneak Attack +3D6(+5D6), Uncanny Feint (free action).
11. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 1: Sneak Attack +3D6(+6D6), Detect Evil, Death Touch 1/day.
12. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 2: Divine Grace, Sacred Strike.
13. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 3: Sneak Attack +4D6(+7D6)
14. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 4: Death Touch 2/day.
15. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 5: Sneak Attack +5D6(+8D6), FEAT.
16. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 6: Improved Evasion.
17. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 7: Sneak Attack +6D6(+9D6)
18. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 8: Death touch 3/day, FEAT.
19. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 9: Sneak Attack +7D6(+10D6)
20. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 10: Death Touch 4/day.
Funny Slaughter
02-12-04, 07:53 AM personally i dont think the assassins death-attack is a strong ability, its rather unusual to come into situations where you can use it. the slayers death-thingie is even more useless, but this does not make a big difference if you arent using it anyhow.

i think the slayers spell-list is a bit stronger and especially divine grace is a very strong ability.

at last its mostly a question of style imo, if you want to be evil there is no way around the assassin in your case, if not...

gs
Funny
eventhorizon
02-12-04, 01:16 PM I want to play an assassin type character, and I liked the idea of being able to play a lawful good slayer of domiel, but at the end of the day if its not going to be very powerful and I am going to be useless then I'll forget it and go assassin.
Timespike
02-13-04, 12:10 AM I'd say the slayer of domiel is actually MORE powerful than the assassin.

Fist, slayers of domiel can automatically detect potential opponents and threats, much the way a paladin does. They can detect evil at will. The assassin, on the other hand, has no such ability.

Slayers of Domiel have divine Grace. Assassins, on the other hand, do not.

Slayers of domiel have the death touch ability, whch has NO saving throw. The best way to use this ability, by the way, is to use TWF with a dagger or shortsword and an open hand. Dagger goes into the kidneys for sneak attack damage just as the other hand claps over the mouth, muffling the scream and tripping the death effect at the same time.

The slayer of doiel spell list is SO much better, it's hardly worthy of comparison, AND it's divine, which means that there's no armor failure AT ALL.

Assassins have death attack and poison use, plus poison resistance, but it's hardly the equal of the slayer, even WITH the hide in plain sight ability they get at higher levels in 3.5.

Oh, and by the way, if you really want hide in plain sight and death atack, even as a slayer of domiel, take 5 levels of dark hunter and a level of shadowdancer. You'll then have everything the assassin has AND everything the slayer has.

Quick Sample Build:

Rogue 1 [Dodge, Servant of the heavens]
Rogue 2
Rogue 3 [Sanctify Martial Strike]
Rogue 4
Rogue 5
Slayer of Domiel 1 [Combat Reflexes]
Slayer of Domiel 2
Slayer of Domiel 3
Slayer of Domiel 4 [Mobility]
Slayer of Domiel 5
Ranger 1 (Track)
Shadowdancer 1 [Blind Fight]
Dark Hunter 1
Dark Hunter 2
Dark Hunter 3
Dark Hunter 4
Dark Hunter 5
Slayer of Domiel 6
Slayer of Domiel 7
Shadowdancer 2

Sneak Attack 8d6, Hide in plain sight, improved evasion, death attack, darkvision, etc, etc. This build is very raw, but I'm sure it could be tweaked into something pretty nasty.
eventhorizon
02-13-04, 07:13 AM Originally posted by Timespike
Rogue 1 [Dodge, Servant of the heavens]
Rogue 2
Rogue 3 [Sanctify Martial Strike]
Rogue 4
Rogue 5
Slayer of Domiel 1 [Combat Reflexes]
Slayer of Domiel 2
Slayer of Domiel 3
Slayer of Domiel 4 [Mobility]
Slayer of Domiel 5
Ranger 1 (Track)
Shadowdancer 1 [Blind Fight]
Dark Hunter 1
Dark Hunter 2
Dark Hunter 3
Dark Hunter 4
Dark Hunter 5
Slayer of Domiel 6
Slayer of Domiel 7
Shadowdancer 2

Doesn't work, you need weapon focus to take sanctify martial strike.

But I take your point about slayer of domiel, I didn't realise that the spells were divine, that makes them so much better since I can still wear armour.
Snow Savant
02-13-04, 11:56 AM My fave SoD build is this:

Ranger2 / Rogue3 / NentyarHunter4 / DarkHunter4 / SlayerDomiel7

BAB +16
+7d6 SA
(2) 4th Level Spell Classes - NH & SoD
10 Levels of Survival as a Class Skill
20 Levels of Stealth/Scout Skills

----

It's really the perfect synthesis of a Ranger/Rogue build. Although Ranger10 / Rogue10 is still a sweet build.

If you dump STR, and squeeze in the feat from BoED that lets you use your WIS as the attack-based stat for a simple weapon ... you can then go TWF style in this build using your Quarterstaff. *AND* ... gain a bunch of bonus spell slots and a high WILL save in the process.

XO,
Snow :cloud9:
adiaven
02-13-04, 12:26 PM Snow,
Where is NentyarHunter found?

And I thought you couldn't SA with a blunt weapon, but I checked 3.5 and it's not in there. cool build.
BenjCano
02-13-04, 12:30 PM Adiaven,

The Nentyar Hunter is from Unapproachable East. Great, great prestige class. No Ranger build should be without.

Althought, Snow, I'd like to point out that the 5th level ability of the NH, immunity to fear, is pretty sweet, not to mention access to the NH's 5th level spell list (sweet, sweet Flame Strike). I might trade that seventh SoD level in your build...
Snow Savant
02-13-04, 01:13 PM BenjCano,

True, you can take that route, but then you lose a point of BAB (down to +15) and lose 4th Level SoD spells.

It's all a matter of priorities & preferences I guess.

XO,
Snow :cloud9:
Balthanon
02-13-04, 01:35 PM Originally posted by BenjCano

Althought, Snow, I'd like to point out that the 5th level ability of the NH, immunity to fear, is pretty sweet, not to mention access to the NH's 5th level spell list (sweet, sweet Flame Strike). I might trade that seventh SoD level in your build...

Flamestrike is fairly mediocre for a Nentyar Hunter without a decent number of ranger or druid/cleric levels anyway. Even if Snow's build included the fifth level, it would only be doing 6d6 maximum. That's not bad as something to fall back on, but probably not worth sacrificing your fourth attack (particularly when that attack could be doing 7d6 damage numerous times per day vs the 3 or 4 flamestrike's you're likely to get with a decent wisdom.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eventhorizon 02-12-04, 07:23 AM	I like the idea of the Slayer of Domiel Prc but I am wondering if it is as powerful as the assassin Prc. I've put together two builds that use Invisible blade and would like some comments on which is more powerful. If you want to suggest better Slayer or Assassin builds please do but bear in mind that I like to max out at least one Prestige Class (either slayer or assassin in this case) 3.5 Assassin Rogue 3/ Invisible Blade 5/ Assassin 10. Hit Dice = 6+19D6 (Fixed =72 ); BAB = +15/+10/+5; Saves = +5/+15/+5; Requirements = . Sources = Core 3.5, CW. Race = Human. 1. Rog 1: Sneak Attack +1D6, Trapfinding, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot. 2. Rog 2: Evasion. 3. Rog 3: Sneak Attack +2D6, Trap Sense +1, Weapon Focus (Dagger). 4. Rog 4: Uncanny Dodge. 5. Rog 5: Sneak Attack +3D6 6. Rog 5/ IvB 1: Dagger Sneak Attack +1D6(+4D6), Unfettered Defence, Weapon Finesse. 7. Rog 5/ IvB 2: Bleeding Wound. 8. Rog 5/ IvB 3: Dagger Sneak Attack +2D6(+5D6), Uncanny Feint (move action). 9. Rog 5/ IvB 4: Feint Mastery, FEAT. 10. Rog 5/ IvB 5: Dagger Sneak Attack +3D6(+6D6), Uncanny Feint (free action). 11. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 1: Sneak Attack +4D6(+9D6), Death Attack, Poison Use. 12. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 2: +1 Save Against Poison, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Raptor School (Tactical). 13. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 3: Sneak Attack +5D6(+8D6) 14. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 4: +2 Save Against Poison, . 15. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 5: Sneak Attack +6D6(+9D6), FEAT. 16. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 6: +3 Save Against Poison, . 17. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 7: Sneak Attack +7D6(+10D6) 18. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 8: +4 Save Against Poison, Hide in Plain Sight, FEAT. 19. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 9: Sneak Attack +8D6(+11D6) 20. Rog 5/ IvB 5/ Asn 10: +5 Save Against Poison. 3.5 Slayer of Domiel Build Rogue 3/ Fighter 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Slayer of Domiel 10. Hit Dice = 6+2D10+17D6 (Fixed = 83); BAB = +16/+11/+6/+1; Saves +8/+14/+5; Requirements = . Sources = Core 3.5, CW, BOED. Race = Human. 1. Rog 1: Sneak Attack +1D6, Trapfinding, Point Blank Shot, Nymphs Kiss. 2. Rog 1/ Ftr 1: Weapon Finesse. 3. Rog 2/ Ftr 1: Evasion, Far Shot. 4. Rog 2/ Ftr 2: Weapon Focus (Dagger). 5. Rog 3/ Ftr 2: Sneak Attack +2D6, Trap Sense +1. 6. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 1: Dagger Sneak Attack +1D6(+3D6), Unfettered Defence, Sanctify Martial Strike. 7. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 2: Bleeding Wound. 8. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 3: Dagger Sneak Attack +2D6(+4D6), Uncanny Feint (move action). 9. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 4: Feint Mastery, Servant of the Heavens. 10. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5: Dagger Sneak Attack +3D6(+5D6), Uncanny Feint (free action). 11. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 1: Sneak Attack +3D6(+6D6), Detect Evil, Death Touch 1/day. 12. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 2: Divine Grace, Sacred Strike. 13. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 3: Sneak Attack +4D6(+7D6) 14. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 4: Death Touch 2/day. 15. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 5: Sneak Attack +5D6(+8D6), FEAT. 16. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 6: Improved Evasion. 17. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 7: Sneak Attack +6D6(+9D6) 18. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 8: Death touch 3/day, FEAT. 19. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 9: Sneak Attack +7D6(+10D6) 20. Rog 3/ Ftr 2/ IvB 5/ SoD 10: Death Touch 4/day.
Funny Slaughter 02-12-04, 07:53 AM	personally i dont think the assassins death-attack is a strong ability, its rather unusual to come into situations where you can use it. the slayers death-thingie is even more useless, but this does not make a big difference if you arent using it anyhow. i think the slayers spell-list is a bit stronger and especially divine grace is a very strong ability. at last its mostly a question of style imo, if you want to be evil there is no way around the assassin in your case, if not... gs Funny
eventhorizon 02-12-04, 01:16 PM	I want to play an assassin type character, and I liked the idea of being able to play a lawful good slayer of domiel, but at the end of the day if its not going to be very powerful and I am going to be useless then I'll forget it and go assassin.
Timespike 02-13-04, 12:10 AM	I'd say the slayer of domiel is actually MORE powerful than the assassin. Fist, slayers of domiel can automatically detect potential opponents and threats, much the way a paladin does. They can detect evil at will. The assassin, on the other hand, has no such ability. Slayers of Domiel have divine Grace. Assassins, on the other hand, do not. Slayers of domiel have the death touch ability, whch has NO saving throw. The best way to use this ability, by the way, is to use TWF with a dagger or shortsword and an open hand. Dagger goes into the kidneys for sneak attack damage just as the other hand claps over the mouth, muffling the scream and tripping the death effect at the same time. The slayer of doiel spell list is SO much better, it's hardly worthy of comparison, AND it's divine, which means that there's no armor failure AT ALL. Assassins have death attack and poison use, plus poison resistance, but it's hardly the equal of the slayer, even WITH the hide in plain sight ability they get at higher levels in 3.5. Oh, and by the way, if you really want hide in plain sight and death atack, even as a slayer of domiel, take 5 levels of dark hunter and a level of shadowdancer. You'll then have everything the assassin has AND everything the slayer has. Quick Sample Build: Rogue 1 [Dodge, Servant of the heavens] Rogue 2 Rogue 3 [Sanctify Martial Strike] Rogue 4 Rogue 5 Slayer of Domiel 1 [Combat Reflexes] Slayer of Domiel 2 Slayer of Domiel 3 Slayer of Domiel 4 [Mobility] Slayer of Domiel 5 Ranger 1 (Track) Shadowdancer 1 [Blind Fight] Dark Hunter 1 Dark Hunter 2 Dark Hunter 3 Dark Hunter 4 Dark Hunter 5 Slayer of Domiel 6 Slayer of Domiel 7 Shadowdancer 2 Sneak Attack 8d6, Hide in plain sight, improved evasion, death attack, darkvision, etc, etc. This build is very raw, but I'm sure it could be tweaked into something pretty nasty.
eventhorizon 02-13-04, 07:13 AM	Originally posted by Timespike Rogue 1 [Dodge, Servant of the heavens] Rogue 2 Rogue 3 [Sanctify Martial Strike] Rogue 4 Rogue 5 Slayer of Domiel 1 [Combat Reflexes] Slayer of Domiel 2 Slayer of Domiel 3 Slayer of Domiel 4 [Mobility] Slayer of Domiel 5 Ranger 1 (Track) Shadowdancer 1 [Blind Fight] Dark Hunter 1 Dark Hunter 2 Dark Hunter 3 Dark Hunter 4 Dark Hunter 5 Slayer of Domiel 6 Slayer of Domiel 7 Shadowdancer 2 Doesn't work, you need weapon focus to take sanctify martial strike. But I take your point about slayer of domiel, I didn't realise that the spells were divine, that makes them so much better since I can still wear armour.
Snow Savant 02-13-04, 11:56 AM	My fave SoD build is this: Ranger2 / Rogue3 / NentyarHunter4 / DarkHunter4 / SlayerDomiel7 BAB +16 +7d6 SA (2) 4th Level Spell Classes - NH & SoD 10 Levels of Survival as a Class Skill 20 Levels of Stealth/Scout Skills ---- It's really the perfect synthesis of a Ranger/Rogue build. Although Ranger10 / Rogue10 is still a sweet build. If you dump STR, and squeeze in the feat from BoED that lets you use your WIS as the attack-based stat for a simple weapon ... you can then go TWF style in this build using your Quarterstaff. AND ... gain a bunch of bonus spell slots and a high WILL save in the process. XO, Snow :cloud9:
adiaven 02-13-04, 12:26 PM	Snow, Where is NentyarHunter found? And I thought you couldn't SA with a blunt weapon, but I checked 3.5 and it's not in there. cool build.
BenjCano 02-13-04, 12:30 PM	Adiaven, The Nentyar Hunter is from Unapproachable East. Great, great prestige class. No Ranger build should be without. Althought, Snow, I'd like to point out that the 5th level ability of the NH, immunity to fear, is pretty sweet, not to mention access to the NH's 5th level spell list (sweet, sweet Flame Strike). I might trade that seventh SoD level in your build...
Snow Savant 02-13-04, 01:13 PM	BenjCano, True, you can take that route, but then you lose a point of BAB (down to +15) and lose 4th Level SoD spells. It's all a matter of priorities & preferences I guess. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Balthanon 02-13-04, 01:35 PM	Originally posted by BenjCano Althought, Snow, I'd like to point out that the 5th level ability of the NH, immunity to fear, is pretty sweet, not to mention access to the NH's 5th level spell list (sweet, sweet Flame Strike). I might trade that seventh SoD level in your build... Flamestrike is fairly mediocre for a Nentyar Hunter without a decent number of ranger or druid/cleric levels anyway. Even if Snow's build included the fifth level, it would only be doing 6d6 maximum. That's not bad as something to fall back on, but probably not worth sacrificing your fourth attack (particularly when that attack could be doing 7d6 damage numerous times per day vs the 3 or 4 flamestrike's you're likely to get with a decent wisdom.)