Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Balthanon 12-04-04, 08:35 PM	I'm looking to develop 4 standard adventuring parties, for a rather odd project combining the rules for Sorry! the board game and D&D. (Sorry! Escape from the Abyss, likely never coming to a store near you.) I have the rules more or less finished, and have played with everyone using the same party, but I would like to give each player the option of using different characters. The problem with this is, of course, that keeping the parties balanced is going to be somewhat tricky. For this reason, and to keep the characters as simple as possible, I've stuck to four 5th level single class characters in each party, all organized around a single theme. In the interests of keeping the characters as equal as possible, and saving myself time, I've used the NPC equipment and spell choices from the DMG wherever possible. Each character has a set of standard stats (18, 16, 14, 12, 12, 8) arranged appropriately for class and uses an ECL 0 humanoid race. Where I'm looking for help is really in evaluating how closely these parties would be matched, and, if someone is particularly interested, suggestions on equipment, feats, and the like that will keep the characters without a DMG write-up as equal as possible with their opposites in other parties. ----------------------------------------------------- |Traditional | Wilderness | Occult | Honorable | |----------------------------------------------------- |Fighter | Barbarian | Hexblade | Paladin | - Warrior | | | | | |Rogue | Ranger | Soulknife* | Monk | - Scout | | | | | |Wizard | Sorcerer | Warlock | Wu Jen* | - Mage | | | | | |Cleric | Druid | Favored Soul*| Shugenja* | - Healer ------------------------------------------------------ Additional Unused Classes ------------------------- Bard (PHB) : Artificer (ECS) : Marshall (MH) : Warmage (CA) Shugenja, Spirit Shaman (CD) : Samurai, Swashbuckler (CW) Shaman, Sohei (OA) : Mystic, Noble (DLCS) : Eidolonx, Eidoloncerx (GW) * Classes with an asterisk I'm unsure about including in that particular themed party (either due to fit or power/character type), but were about the best I could do with the core classes currently available. x Core classes listed for the sake of completeness, but unfeasible due to required multi-classing. I'm flexible on the party themes, so long as the same class isn't used more than once. If anybody has suggestions on alternatives, or entirely new parties that would make up a fifth or sixth option I would be interested in hearing about them. Each party needs a warrior, scout, mage, and healer-type though, as they have specific abilities outside of combat that tie in to their function.
Balthanon 12-04-04, 11:10 PM	_______________DWARVEN FIGHTER Medium-Size Dwarven Fighter 5 Hit Points: 54 [_______________________] AC: 21 / 19 F / 11 T | Init: +6 | Speed: 20 ft. Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+9 Attack: +11 (1d10+6/x3) | Full Attack: +11 Ranged: +8 (1d8+3/x3) | Saves: Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +3 (+2 magic) Abilities: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 18 Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 6 Skills: Ride +10, Jump +12, Intimidate +6 Feats: Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe), Weapon Specialization (dwarven waraxe) Class Abilities: Bonus Feats Equipment: Full plate, heavy steel shield, masterwork dwarven waraxe, masterwork composite longbow (+3 Str bonus), 30 arrows, cloak of resistance +1, potion of bear's endurance, potion of cure moderate wounds _______________HUMAN CLERIC Medium-Size Human Cleric 5 Hit Points: 43 [_______________________] AC: 23 / 21 F / 11 T | Init: +1 | Speed: 20 ft. Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5 Attack: +7 (1d8+2) | Full Attack: +7 Ranged: +4 (1d8/19-20) | Saves: Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +8 Abilities: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 16 Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 12 Skills: Heal +12, Concentration +11 (+15 defensive) Feats: Combat Casting, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Morningstar) Class Abilities: Turn Undead, Domains Healing/Protection (+1 caster level healing; +5 resistance bonus) Cleric Spells Prepared (5/5/4/3;save DC 14 + spell level): 0--detect magic, guidance (2), light, resistance; 1st--bane, bless (2), sanctuary*, shield of faith; 2nd--aid, bull's strength, cure moderate wounds*, sound burst; 3rd--dispel magic, magic circle against good, protection from energy* Equipment: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, masterwork morningstar, light crossbow, 15 bolts, 2 scrolls of cure light wounds, wooden holy symbol _______________HALFLING ROGUE Small Halfling Rogue 5 Hit Points: 27 [_______________________] AC: 19 / 14 F / 15 T | Init: +9 | Speed: 20 ft. Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+0 Attack: +9 (1d4+1/19-20) | Full Attack: +9 Ranged: +9 (1d4/x3) | Saves: Fort +4, Ref +11, Will +2 Abilities: Str 12, Dex 20, Con 12 Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 12 Skills: Bluff +9, Disable Device +11, Hide +17, Listen +9, Move Silently +15, Open Lock +13, Search +11, Sleight of Hand +13, Spot +7, Tumble +13, Use Magic Device +9 Feats: Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative Class Abilities: Sneak Attack +3d6, Trapfinding, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Trap sense +1 Equipment: Masterwork chain shirt, masterwork dagger, masterwork shortbow, 20 arrows, cloak of resistance +1, 6 potions of cure light wounds, 2 potions of neutralize poison, masterwork thieves' tools _______________ELVEN WIZARD Medium-Size Elf Wizard 5 Hit Points: 21 [_______________________] AC: 15 / 11 F / 14 T | Init: +4 | Speed: 30 ft. Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+1 Attack: +2 (1d6-1/18-20) | Full Attack: +2 Ranged: +7 (1d8/x3) | Saves: Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +6 Abilities: Str 8, Dex 18, Con 12 Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 12 Skills: Concentration +9 (+13 defensive), Decipher Script +12, Knowledge (arcana) +12, Knowledge (the planes) +12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +12, Spellcraft +14 Feats: Combat Casting, Scribe Scroll, Eschew Materials, Extend Spell Class Abilities: Familiar Wizard Spells Prepared (4/4/3/2;save DC 14 + spell level): 0--daze, detect magic, ghost sound, ray of frost; 1st--mage armor, magic missile (2), magic weapon; 2nd--blur, glitterdust, Melf's acid arrow; 3rd--fireball, haste. Equipment: Bracers of armor +1, rapier, masterwork longbow, cloak of resistance +1, potion of blur, potion of cure moderate wounds, potion of cure serious wounds, potion of haste, scroll of confusion, 2 scrolls of fireball, scroll of web, dagger.
rilem 12-04-04, 11:39 PM	Interesting -- so do the players compete against each other as individual PCs, or as groups? What challenges will they face? My money's on group 1 or 4. The core group has the biggest spell selection, two casters with level 3 spells and the only real trapfinder in the entire game. Their only liability is the fighter, as everybody will be making fun of him for going Fighter 5... Group 2 has more oomph -- probably better in a straight-up fight but is hampered a bit by the Sorceror. Group 3 is the coolest but weakest, though I don't know much about the Warlock yet. It gets no 3rd level spells and both of its casters have a limited spell selection, and SoulKnife hasn't even gotten its +1 enhancement yet. (Complete Adventurer has a Core class Ninja, probably a rewrite of the Dragon one a few months back -- if that has trapfinding it could sub for the soulknife as scout). They do have the best saves, though, so maybe tweak them for survivability. Group 4 is also pretty survivable, with good saves and a spellcasting makeup that's the flip side of Group 2. I'm going off of OA versions of Wu Jen and Shugenja, however, so I'm out of date here.
Blade2718 12-04-04, 11:59 PM	Wu Jen and Shugenja are fine where they are. I suppose the biggest difficulty would be to find a core class scout that fits the theme Occult. Psionic Rogue would be something of a cop-out, but the best solution I could offer.
Tempest Stormwind 12-05-04, 12:42 AM	BlaineTog did an altered Soulknife on the Psi boards a while back, almost unanimously described as how the guy should have been from the get-go. It altered the theme a bit from a speed-fighter to a combat-able scout. Here's (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=310984) the link. It's close enough to the original soulknife that using it won't break anything, while it may move it closer to the "scout" role you're looking for. The OA shugenja and wu jen are similar enough to the Complete equivalents. There's a few different shugenja orders (schools in OA), and the wu jen has a modified verion of their first level initiative thing (Watchful Spirit) and has slight modifications to Elemental Mastery (errata version) and the timing on Spell Secret, but is otherwise close enough that you can figure it out. The warlock has been described as the "fighter" of arcanists; I think this is a fair enough description. I think the spread is still fairly even. The first party is going to be the strongest in general (obviously), while the second is probably the best in a brawl (two full-attack characters, overlapping spell lists, and lots of ready summons, plus whatever the sorceror picks. I'd suggest buffs). The third team has the advantage of toughness, surprisingly -- all of them except the Soulknife (and possibly even that, considering psychic strike and focus feats) have ready buffs, so if they do get the drop on the enemy, it'll be potent, and yet none require preparation, so they can even get by if surprised. The fourth group is really preparation-heavy, so they're going to have to rely on the monk's sensory skills and the paladin/shugenja's detection abilities, but if they do have the initiative, it's going to be brutal.
Balthanon 12-05-04, 09:17 AM	At the moment, the rules primarily focus on individual combat when one player encounters another going around the board. Whenever you land on the same square as an opponent, combat is initiated with the initiating character having a surprise round (had to give a nod to the name of the game). The combat itself takes place in a randomly shaped (circular to irregular), sized (10 foot to 100 foot), and lighted (dark to light) room. And if you want to make just surviving a challenge, you can also roll for a random planar trait to accompany these. I am in the process of making board expansions to allow for different, slightly more dangerous paths though with different challenges probably. I haven't decided what these challenges will be, but each side of the board will probably have challenges suitable to a different function. And it is possible that I will put in challenges that require you to get two or more characters to the location to complete. Actual traps probably won't be a major part of this though, since I can't put a trapfinder in every party. (I was actually looking for somewhere on the boards to discuss the game as a whole, but I wasn't exactly sure where something like this would go.) ----> * <---- Soulknife was the weak link in the occult party; that one actually started because I saw Warlock and Hexblade and thought they were a perfect fit. Favored Soul and Soulknife were filling in the cracks. If I wait for Complete Adventurer or modify this when it comes out, I think there's a pretty good chance that either Ninja like you suggested or possibly Spellthief depending on how its done will be superior solutions. I did actually have another thought on this though. For the time being, how many think that Bard would actually be a superior scout for the occult team? Either a standard bard or one of the variants in Unearthed Arcana might be a closer fit for the occult team and still have access to most of the necessary skills. (I would like to stick to official variants on the classes though, to keep this standardized.) The Warlock I think will be ok without third level spells, with the right invocations (but not too right) and his eldritch blast he should be well-equipped. Using up resources was a major issue when we played and the Warlock doesn't need to worry about this at all. If that party needs them, however, it would be possible to substitute Shaman for Favored Soul (of a dark deity) in that party. A suitable domain like Death or Evil might give it the correct flavor for the party. I chose Favored Soul primarily because it had received a full reprint for 3.5, but the Shaman has at least received an update.