Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zerolight 02-17-05, 01:15 PM	I quickly realized that wasnt what i wanted. I wanted a spear fighter like a guy i saw on this movie "The Warrior Musa", a great foriegn film (very OA) about a party of Korean diplomates sent to China. Along with him, also a bit o Sung Mina from Soul Caliper and Zhao Yun from Dynasty Warriors. All these charecters do alot of slashing and piercing so Halberd made alot more sense (not to mention the better damage,trip attack and Spinning Halberd Style feat). So this is what i need help with. One IS the Spinning Halberd Style worthwile, and how far should the TWF with a halberd considered a double weapon. TWF, ITWF, GTWF,TWdef, etc TWO What kind of feats and PRCs should you lean towards for a halberd charecter considering FR setting, Human, no stats yet, Asian Nomad, small party (3-4 players including me) Three Stop being difficult and just go get a Bastard sword like everyone else. Thanks for any help you guys can give. Even though all my problems stem form reading to much of this board, after seeing some of the chars people come up with you start looking at your own charecters a little different :raincloud .
Qaetar 02-17-05, 01:38 PM	Well, what abilities do you want him to have other than being a Halberd master? And how optimized do you need to be? Human Fighter/Shou Disciple/Dervish comes to mind. Fighter for feats, Shou Disciple to flurry your Halberd, Dervish for Slashing weapons bonuses. (Qaetar)
rilem 02-17-05, 02:04 PM	Dervish would also approximate the Asian Nomad bit. Though I might suggest Guisarme instead of Halberd, for the expanded threat range while retaining trip capability. You lose the extra attack, but that is compensated through flurry. JosephKell's Halberd King build (around here someplace) incorporated Spinning Halberd early on, and Neonsamurai has posted a PsyWar Halberdier that uses it in late-build for style. I don't think I'd invest many TWF feats with it, however. Three reasons: 1. The Spinning Halberd Style doesn't actually make the halberd a double-weapon (though you could probably get a favorable DM ruling on this). 2. It suffers from the same problems as all TWF builds re: damage dealing, though Dervish will mitigate this. Your feats are better spent elsewhere 3. A collalary to No. 1: It's unlikely that many DMs would allow halberd enhancements such as Flaming, Wounding, etc., to affect blows landed with the handle.
Chameleon 02-17-05, 02:08 PM	I too am very interested in a spear fighter! I will be watching this thread very closley.
rilem 02-17-05, 02:43 PM	Note that a spear could still be an option -- Serpent Strike from Eberron lets monks flurry with a longspear, which could work for you. Per Comp.Adv. rules, longspear may be subbed with the exotic Greatspear for certain feats -- if you could get your DM to allow Seprent Strike (greatspear) that opens other options: Take Exotic Trip (from Exotic Weapon Master) to allow for trips with your Greatspear. Monk6/Ftr2/EWM2 1. Fighter EWP (Greatspear), WF (Greatspear), Stand Still 2. Fighter2 Dodge 3. Monk, Stunning Fist, IUS, Serpent Strike 4. Monk Combat Reflexes 5. Monk3 Still Mind 6. Monk4 Mobility, Ki Strike 7. Monk5 8. Monk6 Improved Trip 9. EWM Exotic Trip, Spring Attack 10. EWM2 Stunning Blow BAB +8 Saves 11/5/5 This guy controls the area at 5 and 10 foot increments with Unarmed Attack and Greatspear. He can trip or make stunning attacks with his Greatspear, or use stand still to keep foes from closing.
Nazzareth 02-17-05, 03:08 PM	Musa is a great movie. I saw house of the flying daggers last night it was a good movie. Some ideas for you Try taking monk 6/ shou disciple 5/ with full BAB PRC or fighter. (full flurry with spear or any melee weapon) You could take the exotic weapon prof heavy spear and enter the exotic weapon master PRC. There is a extending spear in a source book or dragon mag that lets you change between long spear and normal as a move action. I also think that there is a feat in a new source book that lets you use a longspear at close quarters. Two gloves of storing could solve this problem long spear one hand and short spear in the other. You could try a double headed spear.
rilem 02-17-05, 04:44 PM	Shou is excellent, although the flurry ability is with any Martial weapon (I don't think it extends to exotics). This is a reasonable Rule Zero, however. There is the Extending enhancement from Dragon, and the changeling spear from Arms & Equipment Guide. Or just use a quiver of Ehlonnia and Quick-Draw.
ming_the_meaningless 02-17-05, 06:56 PM	Actually, I was under the impression that the 5th level ability was called Martial Flurry, but allowed you to flurry with any melee weapon. Can always be wrong though (UE not with me)...
Lellindil 02-17-05, 07:03 PM	dude look at the final fantasy dragoon thread, about 5 pages of how to make a "OAish" spear fighter, not only are you a badass but you can do those crazy jumps that they have in oriental movies like crouching tiger. I cant recomend the thread enough. The builds in that thread dont use halbred but that can easily be switched up, just a heads up if you decide not to do that then i would recomend dervish.
Zerolight 02-17-05, 10:44 PM	Thanks for all the help All of your ideas really gave me alot to work with. My DM said he would allow a Halberd as a double weapon but i would have to buy each sides effects seperatly. I really like the Dragoon builds but my DM doesnt like the 3.0 OA agility powers. I love the mobility of the Dervs and the flurry of the monk/shao. a few more questions -With the serpent strike feat how advantagous do you feel is Shao Disciple (Martial Flurry is any light weapon at 3 any weapon at 5) -Where do you find the Stand Still feat and/or what does it do exactly -If you use a extending spear (normal spear/long spear) is that an exotic weapon or would you lose your feats for one (WF, Improve Crit. etc.) as you switch. and wouldnt it be cool to get a sneak attack if you all of a sudden extended it when someone thinks its a normal spear :evillaugh -Do you threaten people with both your longspear and unarmed attack. -If you use the Sun School tactical feat, do weapon flurries and stuns count? -do they still have heavy spears in 3.5 or did they go the way of full blades, and could you get a extending heavy spear great spear :D So much stuff, I dont need a peerlessly optimized charecter, but i want his mechanics to represent the level of expertise i sorta invision. I dont mind lossing some things for roleplaying value but not more then I need to.
Polygon 02-18-05, 01:04 AM	Allow me to butt in a bit: The FF Dragoon without houserules thread reminded me of an idea I posted a while back for a Werewolf (Dire) Blade Dancer with Expeditious Retreat for one of his Sorcerer spells, Spring Attacking for like 115 feet both ways. The Dragoon build seemed just plain better than mine though, because it used the Scout class to abuse the Blade Dancer's Speed multipliers rather than heavy template LAs. (My build was posted before CV was out) However, because I love Halberds, because this thread is linked to the other, and because I just got the Miniatures Handbook and am enthralled with the Catfolk race, I've got a new idea: Catfolk (which among other things has 40 ft base Speed and +1 LA) Blade Dancer/Dervish with Spinning Halberd Style, Dervish Slashing bonuses while dancing, and Leap Attack/Battle Jump to "boing" around the battlefield, cutting up everything in its path. GREAT flavor, and if you take Catfolk Pounce (Races of the Wild) you could get full attack on a charge innately, although it only applies to flatfooted opponents (boo). If you could somehow stick 4 levels of Singh Rager in there (also from OA) you could get Lion's Pounce on all charges, use Dervish's Spring Attacking goodness to Full Attack and then move 100+ feet away, and charge next round for a full attack with Leap Attack/Battle Jump multipliers. That's a lot of PrC levels to fit in, though, and the flaw of combining Blade Dancer and Dervish is that you get "free Spring Attack" with both, wasting one of them. I'll see if I can cook something up while I'm offline.
Lord Likk 02-18-05, 01:27 AM	how many equivalent bonuses is extending, and what does it do? it sounds good, and if it's what i think it is, i may be making a character like this soon.
Polygon 02-18-05, 01:31 AM	I just wanted to add that Seung Mina is the coolest fighter-game character ever. Anybody that brings a couse to a swordfight has my vote.
Nazzareth 02-18-05, 01:42 AM	On the shou disciple note the ability is called martial flurry but it states that it can be used with any melee weapon. Maybe you could adopt the duelist or iaijutsu weapon master PRCs to spear use for your character. Rember that even if you hold a longspear (10' reach weapon) you are a monk so you can still threaten and attack creatures in 5' reach with your unarmed strikes.
rilem 02-18-05, 09:56 AM	a few more questions -With the serpent strike feat how advantagous do you feel is Shao Disciple (Martial Flurry is any light weapon at 3 any weapon at 5) Serpent Strike makes Shou less necessary (especially if you don't have WF-Unarmed) -- but the feat only works with spears, though you could conceivably Rule-Zero a halberd version. The shou is still a nice PC for the Flurry flexibility, Full BAB and because it can flurry in light armor (useful for low-Wis PCs.) -Where do you find the Stand Still feat and/or what does it do exactly Expanded Psionics Handbook; it's a general feat that forces an opponent who triggers an AOO to make a reflex save or be stopped in their tracks. You can find it in the[/QUOTE]SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35). -If you use a extending spear (normal spear/long spear) is that an exotic weapon or would you lose your feats for one (WF, Improve Crit. etc.) as you switch... DM's call. I'd say probably not. This is one reason why I try not to invest in a lot of weapon-specific feats. -Do you threaten people with both your longspear and unarmed attack. As long as you threaten people with an unarmed attack to begin with (monk, Improved Unarmed Strike, natural weapon), yes. -If you use the Sun School tactical feat, do weapon flurries and stuns count? By my reading of the feat, yes. -do they still have heavy spears in 3.5 or did they go the way of full blades, and could you get a extending heavy spear great spear :D I haven't seen 3.5 versions of Gold or Platinum weapons, if that's what you mean. I suppose you could use the 3.0 version.
Burning Duck 02-18-05, 11:07 AM	The big deal with Monks/Dervishes is "Greater Flurry"(requires Mnk11) and "A Thousand Cuts"(requires Drv10) exculde themselves reciprocally You can't have both in the same 20level build to Polygon: Nice catches, but Power Attack/Leap Attack is sub-optimal in a 2WF build, and Blade Dancer requires arcane/divine spellcasting, that you don't have Strongarm Ranger6/Blade Dancer5/Singh Rager5/Shou Disciple5 may be you goal: great leaps + flurry + pounce
Polygon 02-18-05, 02:28 PM	Hmm... I thought they said Spinning Halberd Style WASN'T a TWF feat (or didn't make Halberd a double weapon). I haven't actually seen the feat; I just got a vague idea about it because that's how a Halberd should be used. :P At any rate, it wasn't my intention to do a TWF build with that idea.
Zerolight 02-18-05, 07:02 PM	Well i might just got with a spear fighter after all, using a build like rilem and Nazzareth mentioned. I was gonna throw some Shou levels in there mainly for the light armor but that would kill my monk movment bonus. So maybe some Occult Slayyer levels ( I hate mages at high levels) and Monk 11 for Greater Flurry. So thats Fighter2/Monk11/EWM2/Occult Slayer5 GreatSpear Tell me what you think. Enough defence? BAB to low? Better PRCs out there? Thanks again for all the responses This was my first post and I really apreciate all the help you all have given me.
Polygon 02-19-05, 02:39 AM	Can somebody remind me what the prereqs are for Spinning Halberd Style?
PhaedrusXY 02-19-05, 03:29 AM	I was gonna throw some Shou levels in there mainly for the light armor but that would kill my monk movment bonus. So maybe some Occult Slayyer levels ( I hate mages at high levels) and Monk 11 for Greater Flurry.Nothing says you have to wear armor if you take Shou levels, and the way the PrC is written, I think it should stack with monk levels for determining which Flurry of Blows you get. So monk6/Shou5 has Greater Flurry, one more BAB than monk11, and can make that flurry with anything.
Burning Duck 02-19-05, 07:37 AM	Can somebody remind me what the prereqs are for Spinning Halberd Style? Spinning Halberd: Combat Reflexes, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(Halberd) Gain dodge bonus and extra attack when making full attack with halberd
Zerolight 02-19-05, 02:08 PM	Spinning Halberd: Combat Reflexes, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(Halberd) Gain dodge bonus and extra attack when making full attack with halberd I thought I had gotten all the halberd stuff out o my system, but considering you have TWF and Spinning Halberd is that 2 extra attacks one for each feat. Or could you use The extra Spinning Halberd attack and the use TWF to use a boot dagger or somthing. Ah yes I could see my DM cringe as I kick a guys knee out with my +2 boot blade of wounding along with a full+1 halberd attack.
rilem 02-19-05, 02:15 PM	Regarding Halberd -- true, you do get an extra couple of attacks out of it, and it saves you from taking the EWM levels.The downside: you control a smaller area, since halberds don't have reach. The Occult Slayer is a nice way to finish, though if you want to beat mages you'll need a dimension door ability -- a vote for Monk12, unless you've got an item to duplciate the effect.
Nazzareth 02-19-05, 03:13 PM	Remember that the shou disciple is a 3.0 class and that the flurry and the monk unarmed base attack bonus rules have changed in 3.5 they were merged together. I think it would be safe to go with PhaedrusXY and let the monk and shou levels stack for the flurry a 3.5 game, most people do.