AT: Should I specialise as a wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

AT: Should I specialise as a wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maleous
10-24-04, 01:47 AM Should an AT specialise when taking wizard levels?

dropping Enchantment seems pretty safe, and dropping necro only loses you false life.

In the first four spell levels;

Conjuration gives: Mage Armour, Glitterdust/Web, Stinking Cloud, Everd's, Teleport

Evocation gives: Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Wall of Force

Transmutation gives: Enlarge Person, Rope Trick, Haste/Blink/Fly, Polymorph.

Can those who have experience as an AT explain why one school would best, or why it would be better to be a generalist?
scrollreader
10-24-04, 02:34 AM IMO, an AT is one of the most versatile, if not the most powerful, characters in the game. I'd hesitate to sacrifice that versatility for an extra spell each level. Maybe if you were using one of the variant specialists, from UA. But you're better off as a Domain Wizard, IMO.
rilem
10-24-04, 12:54 PM You can find a variety of opinions on the AT here, but the consensus over the past year or so is that while powerful at late levels, surviving that long can be very problematic. (this assumes you don't use UA's generic spellcaster, which solves many of their shortcomings).

I do agree with scrollreader that their versatility is important; if starting at higher levels, don't specialize; the extra spell per day won't be worth it. At lower levels it can be handy.

If you specialize, I'd suggest going diviner and dropping evocation. Though you lose a couple nice spells, nearly every school has a low-level ranged touch spell you can Sneak Attack with. And the various ______ orb spells are conjuration now, I think.
Thannin
10-24-04, 02:13 PM Ill play devil's advocate and point out that AT's have fewer spells per day than a straight wizard, therefore specialization is a must. Sure, versatility is nice and good, but how can you be versatile with fewer spells per day? Two schools for an extra spell per day is a great deal, and enchantment and evocation are losable. I'm not a big fan of fireballs, simply because you'll be able to do more damage with different spells. I would suggest arcane strike, with a level of shadowdancer for hide in plain sight, and memorize all versatility spells.
rilem
10-24-04, 04:23 PM Again, as a low-level AT-to-be, specialization can be very much worth it b/c your overall effectiveness can be very low. Again, I'll emphasize that Divinition is the best specialization deal -- there is a good Div. spell at almost every level, and smart use of divination can make your shortcomings less of an issue.

Shadowdancer is not a very good idea, I think. The feats are not much use for an AT (whose best choices are generally either spellcasting feats or the ranged-combat feats), you lose ANOTHER caster level, and there's already a spell that duplicates Hide in Plain Sight (know the shadows, from OA; not wizard but you should be able to research it).
Thannin
10-24-04, 04:37 PM Again, as a low-level AT-to-be, specialization can be very much worth it b/c your overall effectiveness can be very low. Again, I'll emphasize that Divinition is the best specialization deal -- there is a good Div. spell at almost every level, and smart use of divination can make your shortcomings less of an issue.

Shadowdancer is not a very good idea, I think. The feats are not much use for an AT (whose best choices are generally either spellcasting feats or the ranged-combat feats), you lose ANOTHER caster level, and there's already a spell that duplicates Hide in Plain Sight (know the shadows, from OA; not wizard but you should be able to research it).
I agree with divination being amazing. However, depending on the type of AT, the feats arent that bad, and hide in plain sight can be used almost constantly, whereas spells require casting. Im not familiar with OA, so I dont know the specifics on it. I play a generic spellcaster 7/arcane trickster 10/shadow dancer 1/fighter 1/cleric 1, which will be his 20 levels of build. So far hide in plain sight is pretty crucial for a touch attack monkey.
rilem
10-24-04, 05:04 PM Ah, then you're no worse off than a standard AT. The big problem with HiPS, however, is that the rules don't support it as a sneak-attack mechanism.

Opponents lose their Dex mod vs. invisible opponents, but nowhere (not the rules, not the faq, not the online article on sneak attacking) does it give a similar allowance for simple hiding. That, plus the -20 check penalty on attacking while hiding, can put the kibosh on this strategy if you run into a strict DM.

With the right DM, of course, it's killer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maleous 10-24-04, 01:47 AM	Should an AT specialise when taking wizard levels? dropping Enchantment seems pretty safe, and dropping necro only loses you false life. In the first four spell levels; Conjuration gives: Mage Armour, Glitterdust/Web, Stinking Cloud, Everd's, Teleport Evocation gives: Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Wall of Force Transmutation gives: Enlarge Person, Rope Trick, Haste/Blink/Fly, Polymorph. Can those who have experience as an AT explain why one school would best, or why it would be better to be a generalist?
scrollreader 10-24-04, 02:34 AM	IMO, an AT is one of the most versatile, if not the most powerful, characters in the game. I'd hesitate to sacrifice that versatility for an extra spell each level. Maybe if you were using one of the variant specialists, from UA. But you're better off as a Domain Wizard, IMO.
rilem 10-24-04, 12:54 PM	You can find a variety of opinions on the AT here, but the consensus over the past year or so is that while powerful at late levels, surviving that long can be very problematic. (this assumes you don't use UA's generic spellcaster, which solves many of their shortcomings). I do agree with scrollreader that their versatility is important; if starting at higher levels, don't specialize; the extra spell per day won't be worth it. At lower levels it can be handy. If you specialize, I'd suggest going diviner and dropping evocation. Though you lose a couple nice spells, nearly every school has a low-level ranged touch spell you can Sneak Attack with. And the various ______ orb spells are conjuration now, I think.
Thannin 10-24-04, 02:13 PM	Ill play devil's advocate and point out that AT's have fewer spells per day than a straight wizard, therefore specialization is a must. Sure, versatility is nice and good, but how can you be versatile with fewer spells per day? Two schools for an extra spell per day is a great deal, and enchantment and evocation are losable. I'm not a big fan of fireballs, simply because you'll be able to do more damage with different spells. I would suggest arcane strike, with a level of shadowdancer for hide in plain sight, and memorize all versatility spells.
rilem 10-24-04, 04:23 PM	Again, as a low-level AT-to-be, specialization can be very much worth it b/c your overall effectiveness can be very low. Again, I'll emphasize that Divinition is the best specialization deal -- there is a good Div. spell at almost every level, and smart use of divination can make your shortcomings less of an issue. Shadowdancer is not a very good idea, I think. The feats are not much use for an AT (whose best choices are generally either spellcasting feats or the ranged-combat feats), you lose ANOTHER caster level, and there's already a spell that duplicates Hide in Plain Sight (know the shadows, from OA; not wizard but you should be able to research it).
Thannin 10-24-04, 04:37 PM	Again, as a low-level AT-to-be, specialization can be very much worth it b/c your overall effectiveness can be very low. Again, I'll emphasize that Divinition is the best specialization deal -- there is a good Div. spell at almost every level, and smart use of divination can make your shortcomings less of an issue. Shadowdancer is not a very good idea, I think. The feats are not much use for an AT (whose best choices are generally either spellcasting feats or the ranged-combat feats), you lose ANOTHER caster level, and there's already a spell that duplicates Hide in Plain Sight (know the shadows, from OA; not wizard but you should be able to research it). I agree with divination being amazing. However, depending on the type of AT, the feats arent that bad, and hide in plain sight can be used almost constantly, whereas spells require casting. Im not familiar with OA, so I dont know the specifics on it. I play a generic spellcaster 7/arcane trickster 10/shadow dancer 1/fighter 1/cleric 1, which will be his 20 levels of build. So far hide in plain sight is pretty crucial for a touch attack monkey.
rilem 10-24-04, 05:04 PM	Ah, then you're no worse off than a standard AT. The big problem with HiPS, however, is that the rules don't support it as a sneak-attack mechanism. Opponents lose their Dex mod vs. invisible opponents, but nowhere (not the rules, not the faq, not the online article on sneak attacking) does it give a similar allowance for simple hiding. That, plus the -20 check penalty on attacking while hiding, can put the kibosh on this strategy if you run into a strict DM. With the right DM, of course, it's killer.