Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Minileed 06-02-05, 01:19 PM	Since my other thread didn't get any responses, I thought I'd try a new approach. I find it odd that high AC builds are so popular, but that high attack bonus builds are relatively lacking. So I figured I'd present this challenge... Using 3.5 rules, all WoTC books and a 28 point buy, what's the lowest ECL that can hit AC 50 with common success. (On rolls of 11+ even). Assume you're not going to catch the target flat footed, and you're not going for touch AC. I'm sure there are good builds that take advantage of touch AC, and builds that maximize your initiative / flanking options, but I'm just looking for a straight up chance to hit build.
malaegoth 06-02-05, 01:21 PM	a kobold with festering anger and a friend who cast restoration on him every day for a year.
thegreatbuddha 06-02-05, 01:41 PM	ECL 3 Halfling Samurai 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / Sorceror 1 Dexterity 22 ( 16 base +2 racial +4 Cat's Grace) Cha 20 (16 base +4 eagle's splendor), Wis 13 Equipment: Masterwork Dagger, Potion of Cat's Grace, Potion of Eagle's Splendor, horse, potion of true strike Feats: Weapon Focus (Dagger), Weapon Finesse (Dagger), open feat Tactics: Drink Potions of Eagle's Splendor & Cat's Grace, cast true strike, then charge, while mounted of course BAB: +2 Higher Ground +1 Weapon Focus +1 Kiai Smite +5 Weapon Finesse +7 Masterwork Weapon +1 Size bonus +1 Charge +2 True Strike +20 Total = +39 Hits on 11+
DisposableHero_ 06-02-05, 02:11 PM	thegreatbuddha - Raptor School requires base attack +6 Try this one: Halfling Psychic Warrior 4 Ability Scores: 26 (+8) Dex (18 base +2 racial +2 compression +4 animal affinity), Wisdom 18 (17 base +1 level) Stuff: Potion of True Strike, Dagger Feats: Overchannel, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Dagger), Reckless Offense Powers: Animal Affinity, Offensive Precognition, Compression, Metaphysical Weapon Power Points: 5 (level) + 8 (wisdom bonus*ML*1/2) = 13 Power Points Spent: Metaphysical Weapon (5), Compression (1), Offensive Precognition (4), Animal Affinity (3) - total 13 Attack Roll: Base Attack +3 True Strike +20 Dexterity +8 Size +2 Reckless Offense +2 Weapon Focus +1 Offensive Precognition +2 Metaphysical Weapon +2 Higher Ground +1 Charge +2 Total: +43, hits one a 7+
oxybe 06-02-05, 02:16 PM	malaegoth... cheap, dude, cheap. that kobold would have a very high ECL if he had restoration/Festering Disease combo pulled everyday. that is a virtual what, +700 str? you could blow the record AC out of the water with a 2! i would say at level 4 you could technically hit 50 AC: orc orc paragon 3 /wiz 1. weapon focus(blah blah blah, we all know this would be greataxe/greatsword) 25 str. (18 pnt buy, +4 racial, +1 lvl 4, +2 orc paragon lvl3) 11 int. true strike - cast by you before you rage bless - cast by a cleric magic weapon - cast by a cleric rage - duh bull's str -cast by a cleric (avg 2.5+1 or 3 str) flanking - +2 to Attk Bonus you charge - +2 to attk bonus 1(weap focus) + 9 (str) + 3 (BAB) + 20(true strike) +1 (bless) + 1 (Magic weapon) + 2 (flanking) +2 (charge) = 39 with this setup (if i did the bonuses correctly, can someone please revise in case i probly goofed) you can technically hit 50 AC once per combat. with common success... this is though. true strike is what is giving me the major attk bonus boost, heck without it, i doubt i could hit 50 AC without the aid of magic at low levels. Assume you're not going to catch the target flat footed, and you're not going for touch AC. that alone is going to up the difficulty. i dont know about how the rest of you ppl on the boards feel, but 50 AC is a lot IMHO.
Minileed 06-02-05, 02:28 PM	The reason I chose 50 AC is because it's very high, but it's not as unreasonable to expect in combat as the record setting AC builds. Especially at the higher levels. I've got a BBEG for my group coming up with 45 AC, and the party is currently average of 17th, and I think the highest current attack bonus for the party's tank (not counting true strike, which they certainly have access to) is 29 or 30.
cvazi 06-02-05, 02:42 PM	*not sure if I am overbudget. . .* Orc: Barbarian 1/fighter 1 Potion: truestrike, guidance, bless: +22 BAB: +2 Str (18base+4orc+4rage=26): +8 High ground: +1 Charge: +2 Feat: Reckless assault: +2 Feat Weapon Focus: +1 Masterwork Weapon: +1 Total: +39
oxybe 06-02-05, 03:14 PM	29-30 would not be an odd number for a lvl 17 party. my lvl 12 archer has 22-24 attk bonus (depending on situation), and he constantly hits enemies with his manyshot & greatbow. what is reckless assault and where is it found? if it does what you say it does, then it may be viable at level 1.
cvazi 06-02-05, 03:21 PM	whoops! it is called reckless offense Reckless Offense [General] You can shift your focus from defense to offense. Prerequisite Base attack bonus +1. Benefit When you use the attack action or full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of -4 to your Armor Class and add a +2 bonus on your melee attack roll. The bonus on attack rolls and penalty to Armor Class last until the beginning of your next turn. it is a non-psionic feat from XPH. Of course, this challenge is kinda moot- assuming a medium or small build, you could just buy 8 dogs trained to aid another (each dog that successfully aids adds +2 to you to-hit , and successful aid on a roll of 8-20), plus you get +2 to flank.
cvazi 06-02-05, 03:47 PM	mules are actually better. 8gp (opposed to 25) and a +4 att (2 tries). meaning you only have a 12.5% chance of NOT getting an aid. that is a +16 to hit. just hope your AC 50 opponent isn't a bag-o-rats fighter tho.
Lion21 06-02-05, 04:00 PM	Potions of True Strike are illegal. You can't make potions with personal range spells.
cvazi 06-02-05, 04:04 PM	ok, nix the level in fighter for 1 sorc- I still have my 8 war-mules :D.
thegreatbuddha 06-02-05, 04:06 PM	DisposableHero: Right you are. I missed that the first time through. My post has been edited
faradhii 06-02-05, 04:11 PM	Mage 1, Magic missle, magic wins! :)
thegreatbuddha 06-02-05, 04:16 PM	What book is the Mage class in? I can't find it anywhere [/sarcasm]
Phaxi 06-02-05, 05:36 PM	half-elf fighter 2/bard 1 fighter 1 (half-elf racial): blade focus, reckless offense fighter 2: weapon focus (rapier) bard 1 (half-elf racial): snowflake wardance str 16, dex 8, con 8, int 14, wis 8, cha 16 scroll of true strike +20 scroll of guidance +1 scroll of bless +1 scroll of bull's strength scroll of eagle's splendor masterwork rapier: +1 weapon focus: +1 blade focus: +1 reckless offense: +2 charge: +2 strength: +5 (20 cha after bull's strength) snowflake wardance: +5 (20 cha after eagle's splendor) bab: +2 Attack bonus: +41 or +43 with lame stuff like flanking and high ground. ps. half-orcs are pussies.. ;)
Lorimo the Disbeliever 06-02-05, 05:51 PM	Blade focus don't stack with Weapon Focus Snowflake Wardance works only with slashing -> useless w/rapier.
DisposableHero_ 06-02-05, 06:07 PM	Level 3 Halfling Fighter1/Wizard1/Paladin1 Ability Scores: Dexterity 18 (16 points), Charisma 16 (10 points), Intelligence 10 (2 points) Feats: Weapon Finesse (1), Weapon Focus (Dagger) (Fighter1), Reckless Offense (3) Spells: Reduce Person, True Strike Gear: Potion of Cat’s Grace (300 gp), Potion of Invisibility (300 gp), Dagger (2 gp), Oil of Greater Magic Weapon +2 (1200 gp), Potion of Eagle’s Splendor (300 gp), Potion of Fox's Cunning (300 gp), Scroll of True Strike (25 gp), Scroll of Reduce Person (25 gp) Total: 2452 gp (248 gp left) Dexterity: 26 (Base 18 +2 Racial + 4 Potion of Cat’s Grace +2 Reduce Person) Intelligence: 14 (Base 10 +4 Potion of Fox's Cunning), easily enough for a 1st level wizard to use level 1 arcane scrolls Charisma: 20 (Base 16 +4 Potion of Eagle’s Splendor) Base Attack: +2 Size: +2 True Strike: +20 Dexterity: +8 Oil of Greater Magic Weapon: +2 Flanking (with familiar): +2 Invisible Attacker: +2 Charge: +2 Smite Evil: +5 Weapon Focus: +1 Reckless Offense: +2 Total: +48 (Hits on a roll of 2) Sources: The 3.5 SRD
DisposableHero_ 06-02-05, 06:11 PM	half-elf fighter 2/bard 1 fighter 1 (half-elf racial): blade focus, reckless offense fighter 2: weapon focus (rapier) bard 1 (half-elf racial): snowflake wardance str 16, dex 8, con 8, int 14, wis 8, cha 16 scroll of true strike +20 scroll of guidance +1 scroll of bless +1 scroll of bull's strength scroll of eagle's splendor masterwork rapier: +1 weapon focus: +1 blade focus: +1 reckless offense: +2 charge: +2 strength: +5 (20 cha after bull's strength) snowflake wardance: +5 (20 cha after eagle's splendor) bab: +2 Attack bonus: +41 or +43 with lame stuff like flanking and high ground. ps. half-orcs are pussies.. ;) You can inspire courage in yourself before you snowflake war dance, which would add another +1 for 5 rounds.
Phaxi 06-03-05, 04:11 AM	Blade focus don't stack with Weapon Focus Snowflake Wardance works only with slashing -> useless w/rapier. Ah... You're right, didnt check it, i thought that was the point of the ability, then its just a pre-selected weapon focus :( Change rapier to longsword to get snowflake to work, thanks for pointing that out :P New version: human fighter 1/barbarian 1/bard 1 fighter 1: reckless offense, weapon focus (longsword), reckless charge (PGtF) barbarian 1: bard 1: snowflake wardance str 16, dex 8, con 8, int 14, wis 8, cha 16 equipment: scroll of true strike 25 gp, scroll of guidance 12,5 gp, scroll of bless 25 gp, scroll of bull's str 150 gp, scroll of eagle's spelendor 150 gp, scroll of reduce person 25 gp, potion of invisibility 300 gp, oil of greater magic weapon +2 1200 gp, longsword 15 gp. 1902 gp total scroll of true strike +20 scroll of guidance +1 scroll of bless +1 greater magic weapon +2 weapon focus: +1 blade focus: +1 reckless offense: +2 charge: +4 (with reckless charge) strength: +5 (20 cha after bull's strength) snowflake wardance: +5 (20 cha after eagle's splendor) bab: +2 inspire courage: +1 size: +1 rage: +2 invisible: +2 Attack bonus: +50, not only against evil.
Funny Slaughter 06-03-05, 07:53 AM	with true strike not being on the bards spell list you have to use UMD so i don't think its legal to use if i am not mistaken. otherwise quite impressive gs Funny
knioen 06-03-05, 09:35 AM	what's the lowest ECL that can hit AC 50 with common success. (On rolls of 11+ even). Sure, what everyone has posted so far works for only one attack, lets see some options that would work for a whole combat of about 5 rounds. rob
carnivore 06-03-05, 10:05 AM	cheap way: BIG AND LITTLE CREATURES IN COMBAT Creatures smaller than Small or larger than Medium have special rules relating to position. Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy. buy 25 Bats BAT Diminutive Animal Hit Dice: 1/4 d8 (1 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 5 ft (1 square), fly 40 ft. (good) Armor Class: 16 (+4 size, +2 Dex), touch 16, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–17 Attack: — Full Attack: — Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Blindsense 20 ft., low-light vision Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +2 Abilities: Str 1, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 4 Skills: Hide +14, Listen +8*, Move Silently +6, Spot +8* be a druid 1 train them yourself....tricks(Aid another,attack,etc...) 25 x +2 Aid another= +50 to attack roll All day :D
Minileed 06-03-05, 08:56 PM	Unless you can find a tiny sized creature with reach, that's not going to work. From your own quote... Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. It's a nice idea though.
Arterion 06-03-05, 09:39 PM	Um. Why? They have to enter the opponent's square to attack him. He can have an AoO, but it doesn't mean the bats can't attack. Even if he kills one, it's still +48 to hit. :-)
carnivore 06-04-05, 12:14 AM	Arterion has the idea.....they enter the opponents square, and he may get a few AoOs but it doesnt matter as you will still get a Huge bonus to attack :D
Minileed 06-04-05, 03:06 AM	Well color me stupid, I wasn't thinking it through. You can use the same tactic to skyrocket your AC against a single opponent then, I take it?
carnivore 06-04-05, 05:45 PM	yes :D
Aelf 06-04-05, 07:01 PM	Regarding the '25 bat Aid' tactic: Aid Another (3.5 PH 164) requires an attack roll against AC10, but bats don't have any attacks. Even if a DM were to allow a roll based on their base attack of +0, they would only hit 55% of the time, so to get a +40 bonus, we would expect to need about 37 bats ... Regards, Aelf
michael_noah 06-06-05, 09:07 AM	It seems a little strange. If 25 diminutive creaturs can fit in a square, how many diminutive creatures can fit in a square with a medium creature? Do the rules even cover this, because it certainly seems that it should be less than 25?
Arterion 06-06-05, 09:28 AM	Regarding the '25 bat Aid' tactic: Aid Another (3.5 PH 164) requires an attack roll against AC10, but bats don't have any attacks. Even if a DM were to allow a roll based on their base attack of +0, they would only hit 55% of the time, so to get a +40 bonus, we would expect to need about 37 bats ... Regards, Aelf Actually, it would get a -5 from it's Str, so it would need to roll a 15 to hit AC 10. But still, 25 bats giving you a +12 to hit is good.