Attempt at a ToM Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attempt at a ToM Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pyro_cat
03-19-06, 02:08 PM So I want to use a bunch of the cool things in Tome of Magic to make an Arcane character focused on binding and summoning.

Human Conjurer Variant (UA)/Binder/Anima Mage/Fiendbinder

Conj 1 (Augment Summoning, Rapid Summoning, Extend Spell, Truename Training)
Conj 2
Binder 1 (Improved Binding)
Conj 3
Anima Mage 1
Anima Mage 2 (Skilled Pact Making)
Anima Mage 3
Anima Mage 4
Anima Mage 5 (Persistent Spell)
Anima Mage 6
Anima Mage 7
Anima Mage 8 (Augment Elemental?)
Anima Mage 9
Anima Mage 10
Fiendbinder 1 (Skill Focus: Truespeak)
Fiendbinder 2
Fiendbinder 3
Fiendbinder 4 (Rashemi Elemetal Summoning?)
Fiendbinder 5
Fiendbinder 6

Combines binding, Arcane magic, and Truespeak to get pretty cool stuff. He can persist three spells a day for free, has a CL 17 (9th level spells) and a BAB of 11 (fractional), bind and control a Fiend with no chance of failure, and crank out pumped elementals like there's no tomorrow. He also binds as a level 11 Binder with Improved Binding (Two vestiges a day, up to and including 6th level).

I'm not sure if I want to focus on the elementals, however, so I might change the feats around. If I take those two out, what would be some good replacements for an Arcane Summoner?
pyro_cat
03-19-06, 05:37 PM I suppose I could always take a flaw at level one, nab Arcane Mastery, then take Practiced Spellcaster and Spell Penetration and not have to worry about SR.

Those of you who have played summoning oriented Conjurers: do you find you also end up needing to beat Spell Resistance with offensive spells, or are the summoned creatures usually enough?
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 09:35 AM I feel bad doing this, but...

130 views and NO comments? Shucks.

It's even nice to just hear that everything looks good.

:bump:
TwoSix26
03-20-06, 11:57 AM How are you getting the three free persists a day? Is it with one of the vestiges? I know at least one of the vestiges gives turn undead, but it doesn't seem you're using Divine meta-cheese.
Kresalak
03-20-06, 12:06 PM By supressing a Vestige's abilities, an Anima Mage gets a free metemagic use.

What fiend can he bind at 6th level?
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 12:10 PM What fiend can he bind at 6th level?

Fiend?

Can't bind fiends until level 15, when I take the first level of Fiendbinder. Using the adaption rules, I could grab a Hellcat, Succubus, Amnizu (MMIII), Armanite, or Mezzoloth (both from MotP) at my first level of Fiendbinder.

I've done my research. :D
Chaotix42
03-20-06, 12:23 PM Whoa, lots of Persistent spells! A free use of a metamagic, when not all metamagic feats are created equal is a very powerful ability! This character should be slamming stuff hard, and hiding behind a wall of minions to boot. All he has to do is tell his vestiges to shut up for a few rounds. :cool:

What's Rashemi Elemental Summoning? Sounds like an interesting feat.
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 12:54 PM What's Rashemi Elemental Summoning? Sounds like an interesting feat.

Unnaproachable East

Combined with Augment Summon and Augment Elemental, it makes elemental summons damn scary. However, it might be better to take a flaw at first level, grab Arcane Mastery, and then take the Spell Penetration feats instead, in case I need to deal direct damage and stuff like that.

My original plan was to have things like Persisted Shapechange and Persisted Absorption and stuff like that, and go nuts in melee along side my fiend and summoned elementals.
bluelighter0
03-20-06, 02:19 PM With regard to the Spell Penetration/DD concerns, if you're focusing on Conjuration, you have access to some of the most beautiful direct damage spells out there, the Orbs. No save (except for the secondary effect on the 4th level ones) and no SR. Prep a few of those (preferably force, sonic, and acid, as those are least resisted) if you need to pick off someone your elementals can't reach. Otherwise, like Chaotix42 said, just hide behind your summons and wreak havok.
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 02:24 PM With regard to the Spell Penetration/DD concerns, if you're focusing on Conjuration, you have access to some of the most beautiful direct damage spells out there, the Orbs. No save (except for the secondary effect on the 4th level ones) and no SR. Prep a few of those (preferably force, sonic, and acid, as those are least resisted) if you need to pick off someone your elementals can't reach. Otherwise, like Chaotix42 said, just hide behind your summons and wreak havok.

Oh. Good call. I suppose those'll do quite nicely. As for hiding behind my elementals... I don't wanna!

And with a persistent Shapechange, I don't think I'll have to. :)

What other good spells can be persisted to make me a better combatant? Prefferably low level ones, since I won't be getting Shapechange till very late.
Todd
03-20-06, 03:23 PM Wraithstrike
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 03:30 PM Wraithstrike

You're so clever. Thanks!

Anything else?
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 07:20 PM Is there a more recently updated version of that Persistent Spells For Wizard's thread?

I'm not trying to be lazy, but I have been incessantly combing through books for the past week, and I don't want to do it anymore. :(

The most recent one I found didn't include the Spell Compendium, which would probably be the largest source of spells to Persist. Obviously.
Kresalak
03-20-06, 07:41 PM Ask and ye shall recieve! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=477252)

I almost wrote Asl and you shall recieve. That would have been weird.
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 07:45 PM Ask and ye shall recieve!

Oh, you're such a pal.

This is, however, the aforementioned thread that didn't include Spell Compendium. But hey, I do appreciate it anyways.

I think I'll just take a look through it myself and write them down. Post them somewhere, to save others the eventual effort.

What does it take to Persist? Personal or fixed ranged? What does fixed range mean, exactly? Not level dependant?
Feeb
03-20-06, 07:50 PM Human Conjurer Variant (UA)/Binder/Anima Mage/Fiendbinder

Conj 1 (Augment Summoning, Rapid Summoning, Extend Spell, Truename Training)
Conj 2
Binder 1 (Improved Binding)
Conj 3

How are you handling the 4 ranks in Intimidate needed for the Improved Binding feat (since it is not a class skill for wizards)?
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 07:52 PM How are you handling the 4 ranks in Intimidate needed for the Improved Binding feat (since it is not a class skill for wizards)?

Well, I figured that I'd just put ranks into it at 3rd level...
Feeb
03-20-06, 07:57 PM which nets you 3 ranks in Intimidate.

Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3.

Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is one-half of this number (do not round up or down).

Yeah, it's a fairly minor point.
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 08:02 PM which nets you 3 ranks in Intimidate.

Yeah, it's a fairly minor point.

Is there a limit to how many points you can put into a skill at each level?

I mean, two cross-class, and then another two ranks once its a class skill. Does this not work?
Antendren
03-20-06, 08:13 PM I mean, two cross-class, and then another two ranks once its a class skill. Does this not work? That works fine. Alternatively, you could put all 4 in at 3rd level. I'm not sure what Feeb's objection is.
Feeb
03-20-06, 08:17 PM edit: Not really objecting, because once a skill is on your class list (for any class you posses) the maximun level is class level +3.

I'm just wondering how you are spending your skill points (not stating that you can't dump 2 skill points into it at 3rd level to get upto 4.5 ranks, just wondering where you are putting all the skill points between Intimidate, Spellcrarft, Truename Speaking, etc.)
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 08:21 PM No, because once a skill is on your class list (for any class you posses) the maximun level is class level +3. I'm just wondering how you are spending your skill points (not stating that you can't dump 2 skill points into it at 3rd level to get upto 4.5 ranks, just wondering where you are putting all the skill points.)

Oh, ok. Yeah, I figured I'd just use cross class ranks until level three. I mean... wizard, high Int. and whatnot, so I'll have some skills to throw around.
Feeb
03-20-06, 08:41 PM Yeah, i just wanted to see how you were spreading things out between PrC requirements (which are pretty much just Knowledge: Planes, Truename Speak and whatnot.)

Eh, quick question, I know the UA variant gives Rapid summoning at level 1 inexchange for the familiar, but where are the other feats coming from? (one for being human, one for first level, one from a flaw?)
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 08:49 PM Yeah, i just wanted to see how you were spreading things out between PrC requirements (which are pretty much just Knowledge: Planes, Truename Speak and whatnot.)

Eh, quick question, I know the UA variant gives Rapid summoning at level 1 inexchange for the familiar, but where are the other feats coming from? (one for being human, one for first level, one from a flaw?)

You get Augment Summon instead of Scribe Scroll with the variant.
Feeb
03-20-06, 09:00 PM :banghead:

right, Enhanced Summoning. time to call it a night.
pyro_cat
03-20-06, 10:11 PM :banghead:

right, Enhanced Summoning. time to call it a night.

haha... no sweat

Now, my question is this: For the Enhanced Summoning feature, it doesn't specify if the bonuses accrue over levels, no matter what class you're in, or only if you're progressing as a Conjurer. Which is it?

I mean... since you lose out on bonus feats, I would have thought it would only be for Conjurer levels, but it only says "levels". Also, the bonus isn't that powerful, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference if it were gained all the way through.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pyro_cat 03-19-06, 02:08 PM	So I want to use a bunch of the cool things in Tome of Magic to make an Arcane character focused on binding and summoning. Human Conjurer Variant (UA)/Binder/Anima Mage/Fiendbinder Conj 1 (Augment Summoning, Rapid Summoning, Extend Spell, Truename Training) Conj 2 Binder 1 (Improved Binding) Conj 3 Anima Mage 1 Anima Mage 2 (Skilled Pact Making) Anima Mage 3 Anima Mage 4 Anima Mage 5 (Persistent Spell) Anima Mage 6 Anima Mage 7 Anima Mage 8 (Augment Elemental?) Anima Mage 9 Anima Mage 10 Fiendbinder 1 (Skill Focus: Truespeak) Fiendbinder 2 Fiendbinder 3 Fiendbinder 4 (Rashemi Elemetal Summoning?) Fiendbinder 5 Fiendbinder 6 Combines binding, Arcane magic, and Truespeak to get pretty cool stuff. He can persist three spells a day for free, has a CL 17 (9th level spells) and a BAB of 11 (fractional), bind and control a Fiend with no chance of failure, and crank out pumped elementals like there's no tomorrow. He also binds as a level 11 Binder with Improved Binding (Two vestiges a day, up to and including 6th level). I'm not sure if I want to focus on the elementals, however, so I might change the feats around. If I take those two out, what would be some good replacements for an Arcane Summoner?
pyro_cat 03-19-06, 05:37 PM	I suppose I could always take a flaw at level one, nab Arcane Mastery, then take Practiced Spellcaster and Spell Penetration and not have to worry about SR. Those of you who have played summoning oriented Conjurers: do you find you also end up needing to beat Spell Resistance with offensive spells, or are the summoned creatures usually enough?
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 09:35 AM	I feel bad doing this, but... 130 views and NO comments? Shucks. It's even nice to just hear that everything looks good. :bump:
TwoSix26 03-20-06, 11:57 AM	How are you getting the three free persists a day? Is it with one of the vestiges? I know at least one of the vestiges gives turn undead, but it doesn't seem you're using Divine meta-cheese.
Kresalak 03-20-06, 12:06 PM	By supressing a Vestige's abilities, an Anima Mage gets a free metemagic use. What fiend can he bind at 6th level?
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 12:10 PM	What fiend can he bind at 6th level? Fiend? Can't bind fiends until level 15, when I take the first level of Fiendbinder. Using the adaption rules, I could grab a Hellcat, Succubus, Amnizu (MMIII), Armanite, or Mezzoloth (both from MotP) at my first level of Fiendbinder. I've done my research. :D
Chaotix42 03-20-06, 12:23 PM	Whoa, lots of Persistent spells! A free use of a metamagic, when not all metamagic feats are created equal is a very powerful ability! This character should be slamming stuff hard, and hiding behind a wall of minions to boot. All he has to do is tell his vestiges to shut up for a few rounds. :cool: What's Rashemi Elemental Summoning? Sounds like an interesting feat.
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 12:54 PM	What's Rashemi Elemental Summoning? Sounds like an interesting feat. Unnaproachable East Combined with Augment Summon and Augment Elemental, it makes elemental summons damn scary. However, it might be better to take a flaw at first level, grab Arcane Mastery, and then take the Spell Penetration feats instead, in case I need to deal direct damage and stuff like that. My original plan was to have things like Persisted Shapechange and Persisted Absorption and stuff like that, and go nuts in melee along side my fiend and summoned elementals.
bluelighter0 03-20-06, 02:19 PM	With regard to the Spell Penetration/DD concerns, if you're focusing on Conjuration, you have access to some of the most beautiful direct damage spells out there, the Orbs. No save (except for the secondary effect on the 4th level ones) and no SR. Prep a few of those (preferably force, sonic, and acid, as those are least resisted) if you need to pick off someone your elementals can't reach. Otherwise, like Chaotix42 said, just hide behind your summons and wreak havok.
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 02:24 PM	With regard to the Spell Penetration/DD concerns, if you're focusing on Conjuration, you have access to some of the most beautiful direct damage spells out there, the Orbs. No save (except for the secondary effect on the 4th level ones) and no SR. Prep a few of those (preferably force, sonic, and acid, as those are least resisted) if you need to pick off someone your elementals can't reach. Otherwise, like Chaotix42 said, just hide behind your summons and wreak havok. Oh. Good call. I suppose those'll do quite nicely. As for hiding behind my elementals... I don't wanna! And with a persistent Shapechange, I don't think I'll have to. :) What other good spells can be persisted to make me a better combatant? Prefferably low level ones, since I won't be getting Shapechange till very late.
Todd 03-20-06, 03:23 PM	Wraithstrike
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 03:30 PM	Wraithstrike You're so clever. Thanks! Anything else?
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 07:20 PM	Is there a more recently updated version of that Persistent Spells For Wizard's thread? I'm not trying to be lazy, but I have been incessantly combing through books for the past week, and I don't want to do it anymore. :( The most recent one I found didn't include the Spell Compendium, which would probably be the largest source of spells to Persist. Obviously.
Kresalak 03-20-06, 07:41 PM	Ask and ye shall recieve! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=477252) I almost wrote Asl and you shall recieve. That would have been weird.
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 07:45 PM	Ask and ye shall recieve! Oh, you're such a pal. This is, however, the aforementioned thread that didn't include Spell Compendium. But hey, I do appreciate it anyways. I think I'll just take a look through it myself and write them down. Post them somewhere, to save others the eventual effort. What does it take to Persist? Personal or fixed ranged? What does fixed range mean, exactly? Not level dependant?
Feeb 03-20-06, 07:50 PM	Human Conjurer Variant (UA)/Binder/Anima Mage/Fiendbinder Conj 1 (Augment Summoning, Rapid Summoning, Extend Spell, Truename Training) Conj 2 Binder 1 (Improved Binding) Conj 3 How are you handling the 4 ranks in Intimidate needed for the Improved Binding feat (since it is not a class skill for wizards)?
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 07:52 PM	How are you handling the 4 ranks in Intimidate needed for the Improved Binding feat (since it is not a class skill for wizards)? Well, I figured that I'd just put ranks into it at 3rd level...
Feeb 03-20-06, 07:57 PM	which nets you 3 ranks in Intimidate. Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3. Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is one-half of this number (do not round up or down). Yeah, it's a fairly minor point.
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 08:02 PM	which nets you 3 ranks in Intimidate. Yeah, it's a fairly minor point. Is there a limit to how many points you can put into a skill at each level? I mean, two cross-class, and then another two ranks once its a class skill. Does this not work?
Antendren 03-20-06, 08:13 PM	I mean, two cross-class, and then another two ranks once its a class skill. Does this not work? That works fine. Alternatively, you could put all 4 in at 3rd level. I'm not sure what Feeb's objection is.
Feeb 03-20-06, 08:17 PM	edit: Not really objecting, because once a skill is on your class list (for any class you posses) the maximun level is class level +3. I'm just wondering how you are spending your skill points (not stating that you can't dump 2 skill points into it at 3rd level to get upto 4.5 ranks, just wondering where you are putting all the skill points between Intimidate, Spellcrarft, Truename Speaking, etc.)
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 08:21 PM	No, because once a skill is on your class list (for any class you posses) the maximun level is class level +3. I'm just wondering how you are spending your skill points (not stating that you can't dump 2 skill points into it at 3rd level to get upto 4.5 ranks, just wondering where you are putting all the skill points.) Oh, ok. Yeah, I figured I'd just use cross class ranks until level three. I mean... wizard, high Int. and whatnot, so I'll have some skills to throw around.
Feeb 03-20-06, 08:41 PM	Yeah, i just wanted to see how you were spreading things out between PrC requirements (which are pretty much just Knowledge: Planes, Truename Speak and whatnot.) Eh, quick question, I know the UA variant gives Rapid summoning at level 1 inexchange for the familiar, but where are the other feats coming from? (one for being human, one for first level, one from a flaw?)
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 08:49 PM	Yeah, i just wanted to see how you were spreading things out between PrC requirements (which are pretty much just Knowledge: Planes, Truename Speak and whatnot.) Eh, quick question, I know the UA variant gives Rapid summoning at level 1 inexchange for the familiar, but where are the other feats coming from? (one for being human, one for first level, one from a flaw?) You get Augment Summon instead of Scribe Scroll with the variant.
Feeb 03-20-06, 09:00 PM	:banghead: right, Enhanced Summoning. time to call it a night.
pyro_cat 03-20-06, 10:11 PM	:banghead: right, Enhanced Summoning. time to call it a night. haha... no sweat Now, my question is this: For the Enhanced Summoning feature, it doesn't specify if the bonuses accrue over levels, no matter what class you're in, or only if you're progressing as a Conjurer. Which is it? I mean... since you lose out on bonus feats, I would have thought it would only be for Conjurer levels, but it only says "levels". Also, the bonus isn't that powerful, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference if it were gained all the way through.