Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darhelion 03-11-06, 12:29 PM	Relatively simple challenge, though I'll be quite impressed if anyone can do it: For a sorcerer build, without reducing its spells known casting level, can anybody figure out a means of: a) getting Iron Will and/or Extend Spell without spending feats, b) getting a single bonus feat that could be filled with Iron Will or Extend Spell c) getting your effective sorc level increased by one for purposes of spells known? For a) and b), any PrCs suggested need to be relatively easy to get into and cannot net cost a feat once you take into account getting Iron Will or Extend Spell, and must not, by the point at which you net +1 feat, have cost an effective sorc level of spells known. By 'net cost' a feat, I mean that if it takes a feat to get into the class, it must grant either Iron Will, Extend Spell, or a bonus feat that you could fill with one of those, -and- another bonus feat that will fill in what you lost. The 'other' feats granted can either be free (to fill in what would have to be taken out to make room for prereq feats) or come from the following list: Enlarge Spell, Maximize Spell, or Spell Focus: Evocation. To give this a kick-start, I'll suggest one possible beginning of the path to this, though flawed: Human Paragon out of UA grants a bonus feat at second level. It also would give a sorcerer a very beautiful +2 to his Cha at third. Unfortunately, it costs a full casting level. Levels 2 and 3 give casting levels, but level 1 does not. If someone knows a way to recover that casting level, using that class would work perfectly. Even if you don't have a perfect answer that meets all the above criteria, feel free to respond with imperfect suggestions. Maybe your reply will give someone else a springboard. Good luck, and thanks for playing!
Timlagor 03-11-06, 12:36 PM	Assuming you need the actual Iron Will Feat and not just +2 to Will saves, I'm pretty sure it can't be done in any book I've seen. It probably can be done in some non-WotC expansion. ....hmm maybe you can get the Planning Domain.. but I doubt it can be done for free.
Prominence 03-11-06, 12:48 PM	...incantrix?
Darhelion 03-11-06, 03:26 PM	Incantatrix is the goal of acquiring Iron Will, yes.
Lilt 03-11-06, 03:46 PM	You haven't mentioned Flaws from UA. Is that because they're not an option? You seem to be considering Human paragon, so I'd guess that UA material was fair game. In-case you don't know about them: Flaws are on P91 of UA. You take a negative aspect to your character and, in exchange, take one bonus feat. You can generally take up-to two flaws if your DM permits. If your build is going to have a ridiculous will save, one cheesy thing to do would be to take the Weak Will flaw. If it gets you Iron Will, then consider it a net -1 to will save in order to get into the PrC. You need to take the flaw at 1st level, but you might want to use it to buy something else and take Iron Will later just so that it doesn't look like total cheese.
hogarth 03-11-06, 04:51 PM	In Unearthed Arcana, there are rules for bloodlines. The Minor Fey bloodline gives Iron Will as a bonus feat at 8th level; there's no cost until 12th level when you have to pay a +1 LA (essentially). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#fey Lycanthropes get Iron Will as a bonus feat, but that doesn't help you, I think.
deathwishjoe 03-11-06, 05:43 PM	another way of gaining free feats is by using taint. if you reach moderate or severe taint you get a feat of your choice. you pay for it though with the corruption or depravity.
risner 03-11-06, 05:50 PM	In Unearthed Arcana, there are rules for bloodlines. The Minor Fey bloodline gives Iron Will as a bonus feat at 8th level; there's no cost until 12th level when you have to pay a +1 LA (essentially). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#fey Lycanthropes get Iron Will as a bonus feat, but that doesn't help you, I think. As I read that, a Major Fey Bloodline, would grant +2 hide check at 1st and Iron Will at 2nd. If you choose not to take the bloodline level (+1 LA) at 3rd, you would not gain any of the 3rd - 20th level bloodline abilities until you take the bloodline level.
PhaedrusXY 03-11-06, 05:52 PM	As I read that, a Major Fey Bloodline, would grant +2 hide check at 1st and Iron Will at 2nd. If you choose not to take the bloodline level (+1 LA) at 3rd, you would not gain any of the 3rd - 20th level bloodline abilities until you take the bloodline level.You also start taking an XP penalty if you don't "take the bloodline level". It gets really nasty, if I remember correctly.
Darhelion 03-11-06, 08:58 PM	Interesting. Bloodlines and flaws are both interesting ways of doing this. Thanks, guys. Any other ideas? Pity there's no way to recover lost spells known levels. But it wouldn't be a sacrifice if there were, now would it?
hogarth 03-11-06, 10:16 PM	You also start taking an XP penalty if you don't "take the bloodline level". It gets really nasty, if I remember correctly. It's just a flat 20% penalty.
Endarire 03-11-06, 11:21 PM	Arms & Equipment Guide has rules for feat-granting items at the cost of 10,000 gold per feat plus 10k per requisite feat. -EE
Darhelion 03-12-06, 02:27 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions. THey're most helpful.