Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lostboy1701 04-06-05, 11:52 PM	I have been away from D&D for a while. The last time I played was... well... my character had a "Witch-Kit" and I was dealing with THAC0 if that tells you anything. Not long ago, however, I was invited to build a new character and play again with some new friends. We are all starting at first level and so I couldnt just blow the dust off my old favorite. The trick was selecting (upgrading... if you will) his race and class with all the fun new stuff. My old "half-elf Witch" is now an AVARIEL WARLOCK. Fun times! Problem is... I need to pick his feat and decide a path to take him, and I really dont know anything about either his race OR class, except what I have read on these boards and read in the books. SO... Im asking all you experienced gamers for some help! What feats? what Prestige classes? and what tricks do you think I should go after and why? I know I will learn and "catch up" as I get playing him more... but I dont wanna be 3-4 levels in and go.. "WHOA... I should have done...(insert obvious)". heh Thanks Everyone. I look forward to yer input! His Basic stats: Race: Avariel (Races of Faerun) Class: Warlock (Complete Divine) Align: Chaotic Good - [trust me... works with his history] Deity: Kertaba ABILITY SCORES after racial adjustments: Str: 11 (modifier =0) Dex: 22 (modifier =6) Con:13 (modifier =1) Int: 20 (modifier =5) Wis: 12 (modifier =1) Cha: 18 (modifier = 4)
allenchan 04-06-05, 11:55 PM	No offense, but Avariels are, well, pretty crappy from a CO pov. If you can use Savage Species just take another elf subrace and slap on the winged template. essentially the same thing, and much better overall. edit: how are you playing an avariel at first level, anyway?
Lostboy1701 04-07-05, 12:11 AM	take another elf subrace and slap on the winged template. edit: how are you playing an avariel at first level, anyway? My Dm was a little worried about me flying above everyone's heads casting EB as it was. The only way I could sell him on the functional wings was by ussing a race with established stats for how they work... and without throwing wings on an already high creature. (besides... the Avariel's ability adjustments worked well for the class.. as ya can see he is pretty buffed up for level 1) Um... and why wouldnt I be able to play him at level 1?
allenchan 04-07-05, 12:35 AM	Because Avariels have a level adjustment of +3. Therefor, a level 1 Avariel Warlock is ECL 4, which means he can be played at level 4, not level 1. Does your party play minotaurs at level 1, too? :confused:
Dauntless 04-07-05, 12:40 AM	You and your DM should refer to page 172 of the DMG "Monsters as Races" section which explains how Level Adjustment works. The Avariel, as described in Races of Faerun, has a +3 Level Adjustment. This means it is treated as a character 3 levels higher. If you were playing an Avariel Warlock 1, you are effectively playing a 4th level character. (Interestingly, the DMG actually suggests not even including flying races until level 5 or 7 or so as a specific example of DMs having to be careful with +LA races)
Lostboy1701 04-07-05, 12:47 AM	You and your DM should refer to page 172 of the DMG "Monsters as Races" section which explains how Level Adjustment works. The Avariel, as described in Races of Faerun, has a +3 Level Adjustment. This means it is treated as a character 3 levels higher. If you were playing an Avariel Warlock 1, you are effectively playing a 4th level character. Not sure if he misread that or if this is a house rule or his. But would that mean that he should be a 4th level Warlock with all the incans and benifits of being 4th level?
Snicker-Snack 04-07-05, 01:02 AM	Not sure if he misread that or if this is a house rule or his. But would that mean that he should be a 4th level Warlock with all the incans and benifits of being 4th level? No, no. That means that, while he is technically a 1st level character, with all of the stats of a 1st level warlock (HP's, Skill points, etc), he is treated as 4th level for purposes of gaining XP. And he should be adventuring with a 4th level group.
Lostboy1701 04-07-05, 01:40 AM	he is treated as 4th level for purposes of gaining XP. And he should be adventuring with a 4th level group. Ok that makes sense.... the other 2 Pcs are also +3/+4... and we are all starting together at 1st level. Now that that is cleared up... hehe... What skills/feats/pres classes should I be looking at to optimize this guy? (now and in future levels?)
jedrious 04-07-05, 02:51 AM	HJonestly for an arial warlock the raptoran is much better as it has no LA and (icing on the pitch for the DM gradually grows into its flight abilities rather than getting everything from the get go) the stats for the raptorans are in races of the wild or can be found here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1
Lostboy1701 04-07-05, 06:05 AM	Ok... So yer all saying the Avariel sucks? Too bad thats what I choose then... cause it aint getting changed at this point. Took long enough to get everyone cool on the Avariel Race and Warlock Class to go and change it now. (expecially when it just looks like Im trying to build a "super creature"... and if it looks like I keep changing my mind cause "this one does this" or "That one has more power".) Fact is... I have an Avariel Warlock. but Question this whole time is: What route should I take him to optimize what he can do? What Skills, feats, prest classes, ect. should I look at to make this guy the best damn AVARIEL WARLOCK he can be?
Rashomon 04-07-05, 06:30 AM	I would heartily recommend suicide and reincarnation as another race. :P Seriously, you're a flying attacker with craptastic hp (At ECL 4, that's... 8 HP max?!) and a weak ranged attack. Take eldritch spear, and take things that will increase your single shot damage, because that's all you're going to be able to do. Going into melee range is suicide because any monsters of that CR will eat you alive. Warlock is primarily a 1 level dip for Spring Attack fighters (who use Hideous Blow to make their one hit own everyone) or as a source of SA ranged damage for rogues (infinite touch attacks + SA = pain), but Master Thrower is easier to do and much much better.
Lostboy1701 04-07-05, 06:43 AM	...Going into melee range is suicide because any monsters of that CR will eat you alive. What if I took Hover than as my 1st level feat? then I can fly up and blast down at em... keeping my only worry at ranged and magic attacks? or What about Toughness? That would get me 3 HP and a step towards Blood Magus as a Prest Class. Or is there a different Prest class I should be after?
Aricandor 04-07-05, 08:58 AM	Blood magus is decent, but not much more. The prereqs are killers (literally). Wild mage would theoretically work with Warlock, but I don't know if that's even remotely optimized. Daggerspell mage (Complete Adventurer) could work if you dip in rogue. Same HD, better skills, HD, and decent invocations coupled with sneak attack. Once more though, the prereqs will most likely leave you dead.
HoshiAdam 04-07-05, 09:16 AM	Improved Flight would be good. I'm not sure what the avariel manueverability is, but Improved Flight will bump it up by one step.
Wordsmyth 04-07-05, 09:41 AM	What if I took Hover than as my 1st level feat? then I can fly up and blast down at em... keeping my only worry at ranged and magic attacks? Eldritch Spear (as mentioned by Rashomon) gives you a 250-ft range on Eldritch Blast. That, combined with Hover, should be able to render you effectively immune to melee attack assuming you are in an open area. However, with the CON penalty from being an Avariel combined with your low HP for a 4th level character (only one hit dice)... you won't have to worry about ranged attacks and magic for long, they will simply obliterate you. :)
faradhii 04-07-05, 09:41 AM	Rashomon's right, smile at the DM, nod a lot, and quietly roll a "natural" 1 on a critical saving throw. Hell, shouldn't be that hard to get dead with 7 or 8 Hit points at ECL (encounter Level) 4. Need to know if your DM is either 1) allowing LA (level adjustment) +3 races for everyone at, essentially, no cost, or 2) starting the entire party out at 4th lvl. Pray for option 2, because that can give you a great jump on the other party members if you just take a base race (Like Raptoran from Races of the Wild) and be a 4th level Warlock. If option 1, you just need to ask these boards for a cool LA +3 creature that synergises well with Warlock. Coarse you should just go wizard.... :D
Todd 04-07-05, 10:10 AM	I need to pick his feat and decide a path to take him, and I really dont know anything about either his race OR class, except what I have read on these boards and read in the books. SO... Im asking all you experienced gamers for some help! What feats? what Prestige classes? and what tricks do you think I should go after and why? I know I will learn and "catch up" as I get playing him more... but I dont wanna be 3-4 levels in and go.. "WHOA... I should have done...(insert obvious)". heh Thanks Everyone. I look forward to yer input! His Basic stats: Race: Avariel (Races of Faerun) Class: Warlock (Complete Divine) Align: Chaotic Good - [trust me... works with his history] Deity: Kertaba ABILITY SCORES after racial adjustments: Str: 11 (modifier =0) Dex: 22 (modifier =6) Con:13 (modifier =1) Int: 20 (modifier =5) Wis: 12 (modifier =1) Cha: 18 (modifier = 4) The stats are very good, no worries there. Race wise Avariel is a bit problematic for a Warlock for the reasons others have mentioned. LA is a killer for 'caster' builds. I'll note one more. At 6th level the Warlock gains access to Fell Flight and can fly at will *without* wings. However, lets look at the bright side. The Avariel flight is likely faster than the Warlock version and you have it from the get-go. The race stat mods are warlock friendly. Questions for your DM: -Is LA buyoff (via Unearthed Arcana) allowed? If yes then the LA problem vanishes. Warlock wise there are a few good threads floating around but Ill note some of the highlights starting with feats. -Precise Shot. Without this you will be -4 to hit targets in melee with your allies. However since you have a very high dex and are targeting Touch AC you might want to avoid this feat. At low levels it makes a big difference but at high levels it looks like a wasted feat ... actually two wasted feats since you had to get Point Blank shot as a pre-req. -Supernatural Transformation (Savage Species). If your DM allows this feat to be applied to your Eldritch Blast you should probably take it. The downside is that you can’t apply nice feats like Maximize SLA to the blast once you take it but that’s far outweighed by the upside. Basically this feat allows you to ignore SR (like 2nd ed MR) & your Blast dice will continue to go up even if you take a few levels in other classes. -Extra Invocation, Crafting Feats (especially for level 12+ Warlocks), and the like are good. -Meta SLA feats are great if you don’t do Supernatural Transformation. Maximize SLA and Quicken SLA are probably the best two. Investigate Sudden Still as well. -If your DM is allowing stuff from the Book of Exalted Deeds then you might consider Ancestral Relic. The Warlock needs defensive items since he doesn’t have much in the way of protective invocations. There are also some nice Exalted Feats that work well with Warlocks (Purify SLA, etc.) however many of them will not work if you picked Supernatural Transformation for your blast. -If your DM allows Psionics then you might want to look at what it would take to get the Psionic Shot & Greater Psionic Shot feats. Skill Wise you will need to max out Concentration & Use Magic Device. UMD in particular will be useful after 4th level. Your ability to use scrolls & wands will give you a lot of versatility that you otherwise will not have. Invocation Wise, Eldritch Spear & Entropic Warding seem like must haves to me for your build for starters. If you are looking for PrC’s for this build I would suggest Wild Mage (the pre-reques will help your UMD). Blood Magus, Green Star Adept, & Daggerspell Mage might suit your fancy as well. Don’t forget to check out the Warlock Errata Thread by Rich Baker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360534) and the official Complete Arcane errata. The errata thread is insanely long and there is a good summary of Rich’s answers HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5755731&postcount=727)
jedrious 04-07-05, 01:27 PM	actually LA buyoff solves very few problems for any LA3 race the first time you invoke the buyoff you need to have 9 levels, the difference between 9 and 10 hd worth of hp at ecl 12 isn't that significant, the next time you can evoke it is at level 15 (ecl17) and the difference of 1 hd is even less significant, the next time you can invoke it is at 18th level (ecl19) where the 1 hd is nearly moot, LA hurts things the most at the lower levels where it's a significant portion of your levels
big bear 04-07-05, 02:12 PM	How about the whole bit where you split the abilities over the LAs. HE'd be a level 1 avariel adn at 4th, would be a level 1 warlock.
jedrious 04-07-05, 02:39 PM	that only works for races that have racial hit dice
slade_caizer 04-07-05, 08:14 PM	No, no. That means that, while he is technically a 1st level character, with all of the stats of a 1st level warlock (HP's, Skill points, etc), he is treated as 4th level for purposes of gaining XP. And he should be adventuring with a 4th level group. That's right. LA (Level Adjustment) in no uncertain terms means "level handicap". The idea behind it is that you're playing an uncommonly advantaged race, so you need to be powered down to be on par with everyone else. So your 1st level Avariel Warlock will be fighting things that should be about right for a 4th level PC. I have to concur that you should be a ranged fighter. Heck, you get the wings; use 'em! Three words: Repelling Eldritch Spear. And yes Supernatural Transformation is golden. No spell resistance and no attacks of opportunity for using it in melee (god you'd be desperate at that point). If you can swing it, go for invisibility ASAP. Wands, invocations...doesn't matter. Just-do-it-fast. [Aside, I have no idea why your EB damage dice would increase without getting +1 caster level of warlock. Check up on that.] Basically the Avariel were a good try at something that could be done better. Take your basic elf (or sub-raced out elf) and throw on the winged template. I think the template is only a LA +1 (if I'm wrong it's +2 max) that gives you +4dex, +2wis. It even gives you a table to figure out your maneuverability. Hint: give yourself 15 dex or better. The template bumps it to 19 which is minimum for perfect maneuverability (you have hover for free!). BTW if you DO throw this mean template on an elf that's +6dex,-2con,+2wis (not including possible sub-race stats). So you could really leave your dex at a 13-14 and be ok. If you can't get Supernatural Transformation, go through as many kinds of Spell Penetration as you can find and raise your caster level (ioun stones and the like help). You've basically straightjacketed yourself into party archer/artillery. On the upside you don't need to worry about DR...on the down side you need to fear globes of invulnerability and anti-magic fields (though flying should help with the latter). Other items of note: Greater Chasuble of Fell Power, Warlock's Scepter BTW, your party might want to kill you unless you pick up Precise Shot quickly. Pegging them by mistake is an unhappy event...the aftermath [read: hazing] can be awful. Edit: The winged template also changes your type to Monstrous Humanoid! Happy trails.
Timespike 04-07-05, 09:25 PM	I have been away from D&D for a while. The last time I played was... well... my character had a "Witch-Kit" and I was dealing with THAC0 if that tells you anything. Not long ago, however, I was invited to build a new character and play again with some new friends. We are all starting at first level and so I couldnt just blow the dust off my old favorite. The trick was selecting (upgrading... if you will) his race and class with all the fun new stuff. My old "half-elf Witch" is now an AVARIEL WARLOCK. Fun times! Problem is... I need to pick his feat and decide a path to take him, and I really dont know anything about either his race OR class, except what I have read on these boards and read in the books. SO... Im asking all you experienced gamers for some help! What feats? what Prestige classes? and what tricks do you think I should go after and why? I know I will learn and "catch up" as I get playing him more... but I dont wanna be 3-4 levels in and go.. "WHOA... I should have done...(insert obvious)". heh Thanks Everyone. I look forward to yer input! His Basic stats: Race: Avariel (Races of Faerun) Class: Warlock (Complete Divine) Align: Chaotic Good - [trust me... works with his history] Deity: Kertaba ABILITY SCORES after racial adjustments: Str: 11 (modifier =0) Dex: 22 (modifier =6) Con:13 (modifier =1) Int: 20 (modifier =5) Wis: 12 (modifier =1) Cha: 18 (modifier = 4) Why not just play a raptorian instead? Or, for that matter, just play a human and take the fell flight invocation? If flight is all you want, there's much more cost-effective methods of acquiring it!
Lostboy1701 04-07-05, 11:35 PM	Ok... here is the way the DM is running this game. All players are playing +3 ECL characters. Due to that fact, he is having us all start as level 1... and we will advance as if there is no ECL. (killer for us... cept he is gonna have to throw harder stuff our way right off the bat.)
Lostboy1701 04-08-05, 04:45 AM	I looked up "Improved Flight" as a feat. It said that it bumps up my manuverabily 1 level. That would make the Avariel's manuv "good" (up from average). When reading the DM's guide, it lists "good" with YES in the table for Hover. Does that mean he gets everything he would have gotten by taking the "Hover" feat (plus all the other I.F. stuff)?
Lostboy1701 04-12-05, 02:33 AM	UPDATE: Just thought I would let ya all know... Started the game and he is a pretty fun Character. I took much of the advise I was given and ended up choosing his first Feat as "Improved Flight", giving him the ability to hover, fly backwards, better agles, sharper turns, ect... This has worked GREAT! being still low level, we havent come across and magic ussers, and with the high Dex, Im pretty hard to hit in the with ranged attacks. My 1 least invoc I choose was Eldrich Spear. The range is awesome and I was able to peg a guy in the bushes while my party was scratching their butts. (thanks to my low light vission). Im sure That being Avariel will handicap me at some point... but so far Im having a(n) (eldrich) blast with him. Thanks to everyone who fed me ideas!
Talen Lee 04-12-05, 09:15 AM	First things first, guys - while Avariel may be a bad option (I managed to convince my wife to dodge that path once already), the original poster's said he's staying with it. Second, ooh, kittens! *gets distracted*
Lostboy1701 04-12-05, 03:20 PM	- while Avariel may be a bad option (I managed to convince my wife to dodge that path once already), read this: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=412433
Talen Lee 04-12-05, 09:37 PM	Er, you did notice how the entire point of my post was to tell the other guys posting to this thread to stop rubbishing you for your choice of Avariel? While emperically it may be an inferior choice, it doesn't matter because you've set the parameters of this exercise, and it's not our place to tell you to change that. I can understand how you feel - and I'd be contributing something worthwhile if I had any idea about the Warlock. I lack a copy of the Complete Arcane, but from what I hear, they benefit quite a lot from the Daggerspell Mage prestige class. If your DM allows the feat Bayushi's Technique from the Rokugan sourcebook, you could qualify with a pure-class character by character level 6, without diverting from Warlock, and if your DM doesn't, you could dot a level or three into Rogue. Having sneak attack and an at-will ranged touch attack sounds like a good idea to me, especially for a guy who can get in those hard-to-reach areas and shoot you. The Daggerspell might not be to your flavour (they're a nonevil organisation of magey thieves, after all). I don't know how Warlocks interact with Divine spellcasting improvement - if divine spellcasting advances them, you might be able to qualify for the Skypledged prestige class in Races of the Wild. It doesn't explicitly require the Raptoran, so your DM might let them in. (Comes back from class board) Seems there's some stuff about how the Warlock can have fey blood powering his spells. In that case, you could opt for Sentinel of Bharrai, whose only prerequisites are some skills and feats, and use that to up your Warlock abilities while improving your repertoire of abilities. If you're not playing in Eberron, then you might not be able to take it, but the Heir of Seiberys is a great prestige class that ties you to the world a little more strongly, and also gives you a whole bunch of nice benefits besides. See if your DM's interested in letting you - and the other players - use the Buyback LA system presented in Unearthed Arcana. Beyond that, you could emphasise your natural abilities as a flying character. IIRthe AvarielC, you're proficient with bolas. Your trip checks aren't going to be amazing, but it's still really irritating to have to make them. What are the rest of your party like?
RecklessFable 04-12-05, 10:08 PM	For you next Invocation I'd suggest Entropic Warding. The 20% miss change vs ranged weapons will help your survivability.
Lostboy1701 04-13-05, 02:57 AM	Er, you did notice how the entire point of my post was to tell the other guys posting to this thread to stop rubbishing you for your choice of Avariel? heh... yeah... but I felt the sucker punch in it too! hahaha Besides that... thank you for all the great options. A downside to warlocks is that they are skill hungry. so thats why I appreciate all this feedback. Wasted skillpoints can really hurt me later on. Hate to realize what feats I miss out on in the future cause I short myself the ness skill points! Everyone here has given me a lot of ideas and again... I thank you! For you next Invocation I'd suggest Entropic Warding. The 20% miss change vs ranged weapons will help your survivability. I like this one a lot! if I can reduce my risk of ranged weapons, I'll be extreamly well off above everyone's heads.
Talen Lee 04-13-05, 05:36 AM	Something I just spotted, Hover. The ability to not have to move is a great tool to have.
Lostboy1701 04-13-05, 06:55 AM	Something I just spotted, Hover. The ability to not have to move is a great tool to have. Yeah... took "improved flight" as my first feat. That bumped my Avariel up to good manuverability giving him the ability to hover in the prossess. (along with flying backwards, sharper turns... ect) Now I can stay in one spot in the air and blast every round!
Talen Lee 04-13-05, 08:01 AM	As we've natched onto in another thread, the Arcane Dilletante might be a good option for your character, at least as a small dip.
Lostboy1701 04-18-05, 09:06 AM	met up for our third time today and at the end made level 2 (eqiv of Level 4). Thought I would Celebrate my sharring page 1 of his Character sheet. (Not reflected on it is his 2nd Invoc - Entropic Warding) http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/lostboy1701/CharstinLev2.jpg
Lilt 04-18-05, 10:17 AM	OK. Whilst Entropic Warding is quite cool, consider the other options available to you first. Other invocations can give you Darkvision, bonuses on saves, and possibly even other damage dealing sources. Summon Swarm is *extremely* effective at low levels as it does damage to creatures in 4 squares, does not require any attack roll, *and* can nauseate opponents on a failed fort save (make them unable to take any actions other than a single move that turn = no attacks). Bats are awesome as if a creature is damaged by them they bleed for 1 damage per round thereafter even if you dismiss the swarm. As it's cast as a spell-like ability, the normal summoning time of a full-round action is reduced to a standard action so they appear when you cast the spell and attack immediately. You summon the swarm of Bats, Rats, or Spiders up-to 30ft away, so it's not perfect for 'sniping' with but it's a good alternative if you're ever too-close-for comfort or against a group of people. As Summon Swarm grants you no control over the swarm, Rats and Spiders are probably the safest choices for you as you can stay out of reach. If a swarm does start going for you or your teammates, however, then you can simply cease concentration on the spell and they disappear. As you go up levels, Summon Swarm eventually becomes useless as you're better-off with your blast, other forms of ranged damage, or better swarm invocations. Never fear, however, as at 6th level you can swap it out for some other invocation which does scale well with level (like the one that gives you your charisma bonus on a particular save). [/rant] (If you can't tell I think that the summon swarm invocation is cool) And, on a completely different note, you say that other people there are playing LA+4 races and you have a LA+3 race? You may want to suggest to your DM that, by the Level Adjustment system, the people with +4 LA races are technically level 6 whilst people with +3 LA races are only level 5. You're 'owed' a level by that system and, although he may not wish to give it to you yet, the DM may be persuaded to give you a bit more XP so that you might catch-up with them. As a warlock, your future will see many situations where you must shoot into melee involving friendly characters such-as party-members. My advice would be for you to snag the Precise Shot feat as soon as possible. This is technically level 6 as you'd need to take the required Point Blank Shot feat at level 3.
Lostboy1701 04-18-05, 06:05 PM	OK. Whilst Entropic Warding is quite cool, consider the other options available to you first. Other invocations can give you Darkvision, bonuses on saves, and possibly even other damage dealing sources. Summon Swarm is *extremely* effective ... I considered Summon Swarm very hard and decided to wait until my next Invo to take that. Still being low level, I wanted a little more protection in the air from attacks and Entropic's 20% chance that missle attacks and rays will fail is pretty nice. you say that other people there are playing LA+4 races and you have a LA+3 race? You may want to suggest to your DM that, by the Level Adjustment system, the people with +4 LA races are technically level 6 whilst people with +3 LA races are only level 5. You're 'owed' a level by that system and, although he may not wish to give it to you yet, the DM may be persuaded to give you a bit more XP so that you might catch-up with them. Ok... I may be starting another thread over this... but when I presented this character, and another person presented a Deep Gnome Cleric, the other PC needed a character as powerfull as us and sat down with the DM and created a whole new race/class that he thought would compare. Problem is that its almost too powerfull. This is a half-fey fighter/ranger that uses a sword in both hands. The damage he can do if he is rolling decent is insane. (He is basicly getting two attacks with every turn for some impressive damage.) He also started with extra feats, is looking at Dualist class by level 6... and the list goes on. The DM claims this creation is LA +3 to match both ours... but seems WAY more like +4 or +5. I'll get his exact stats and let you know and have all you tell me what you think. As a warlock, your future will see many situations where you must shoot into melee involving friendly characters such-as party-members. My advice would be for you to snag the Precise Shot feat as soon as possible. This is technically level 6 as you'd need to take the required Point Blank Shot feat at level 3. So far I HAVE shot a party member once in melee. Its not a huge concern right now, because Im only giving 1d6 damage, but that changes next level. I actually think its kind of fun to smack around my own team. Thats what they get for being in my way... hahaha
Lilt 04-18-05, 06:25 PM	I considered Summon Swarm very hard and decided to wait until my next Invo to take that. Still being low level, I wanted a little more protection in the air from attacks and Entropic's 20% chance that missle attacks and rays will fail is pretty nice.I'd reconsider... Summon swarm gets less and less effective as you go up levels. You won't get your next invocation until 4th level by which point 1d6 to a group of people is far less important. In-fact I might not bother if left to 4th level as I'd be switching it back out at 6th anyway. Consider that a 20% miss chance means 20% less damage, and that if the nausiating effect from a swarm of bats, rats, or similar is able to take-out one enemy out-of 5 then you've had almost exactly the same effect. If they direct any attention/attacks at the swarm then you've exceeded your goal. The save DC versus nausiation is fairly low, 11-12, but when even fighters only have a +6 or so on fort saves you can expect mage and rogue-types to fail 40% of the time or so. Plus the increased damage probability (no to-hit roll) speeds the fight up meaning, again, that you take less damage in the long run.
Lostboy1701 04-18-05, 09:56 PM	That makes a lot of sense... but what about the fact that we have a fighter in the group who runs into melee all the time. I even was taking out guys on my own and he jusps in (risking me hitting him) cause he is too agressive to stand back and let me work. I have no control over direction with swarm and would never get to use it because of him.
Lilt 04-19-05, 05:06 AM	Although that is a possible problem, if you could sick the swarm at the 2nd rank (the mages and ranged fighters) then you have a far better situation. You should be able to stop concentrating so that the swarm won't attack your allies, and even one round with a bat swarm on them is enough to make them bleed for 1 point of damage per round, after which you can just blast.
Vorlir 04-19-05, 07:46 AM	Let him get hit by the swarm, maybe that will teach him lol.
Lilt 04-19-05, 09:05 AM	I probably seem pushy, but I just find Summon Swarm to be an awesome invocation at low levels. Area Damage? No Save? No attack roll? A good chance the enemy will lose actions from being nauseated? Extra effects? (Wounding, Poison, or Filth Fever) No threat of damaging teammates if you're careful? (if the swarm goes over them, or they run into it, you stop concentrating on it) It even removes one potential drawback that the second level spell has (the spell stays around for 2 rounds after you finish concentrating, which gives it potential to attack you or your friends) and your Damage Reduction from level 3 onwards means you'e immune to your own swarms so you can summon them right next to you without fear (unless squishy allies with no DR are close-by too).
Obi-Wan Shinobi 04-19-05, 09:56 AM	i might be missing something, but how are you hitting your teammates while they are in melee combat with the enemy??? all that does to you is give you a -4 to hit penalty for on ranged attacks due to them being in melee combat, which precise shot removes. if they are between you and the enemy, you take a -8 to hit penalty, -4 for the melee combat part and another -4 for the soft cover your ally provides the enemy with. get straight over head or to the side and your teammate no longer affect you. but either way, there is NO CHANCE of hitting your ally, not in 3.5 atleast. in 3.0, if you missed your enemy by less than the -4 that the soft cover provided, you used the same attack roll to see if you hit the cover instead. if you missed that, then no one takes damage. there is also an option for the cover to not get hit, but it is really a rule that all it did was slow down combat and was removed (simplified) in 3.5.
Lilt 04-19-05, 10:16 AM	It's not in the rules but it's a fairly common house-rule. I'd say that in at-least half of the 3.0 and 3.5 games I've played in there has been some form of house-rule in place where shots into melee can hit friendly characters. Rolls of 1s, 'confirmed' critical misses, attacks that don't take the -4 (because some characters don't care that much if they hit their friend), ETC. All this tends to end once you have precise shot though, with the one exception of rolls of 1s which some GMs seem determined to make terrible for you. I once even managed to shoot an ally, have by bow-string snap (cutting me) *and* have my god deny me spells for a bit (until I took an opponent down with a hit from my bow) for such a poor show of archery (Cleric of Solonor Thelandira, elven god of archery in Faerun, rolling a 1 to hit followed by a 1 on a 'critical miss confirmation roll')
Talen Lee 04-19-05, 10:23 AM	Hells, forget all that - where'd you get that sexy character sheet?
Lostboy1701 04-19-05, 09:22 PM	Yeah... when we roll bad... we can hit team mates. I think I just might take Summon Swarm. If the fighter runs into my fray... I just will make sure NOT to kill the invoc and maybe he will learn to step back some. As for the character sheet... I made it. Used the "Warlock" sheet... but ran it through photoshop and cutomized it more for my character. Added some cool graphics after that. You should see the other 3 pages of it! Now the fighter wants me to do that for him (ugh).
Lostboy1701 04-26-05, 05:09 AM	Well... First Let me say that Im LOVING this character. That said... I have started to map him out (up to level 15) I want to begin to roleplay fome of the developments in advance so my character adjusts to his levels without "powersurging". This is what Im looking at: Skills at Level 15: *Concentration................... / 18 ranks / (+1 Con) =19 *Craft(calligraphy).............. / 18 ranks / (+5 Int) =23 *Diplomacy (cross class)......... / 3 ranks / (+4 Cha) =7 *Knowledge Arcana................ / 18 ranks / (+5 Int) =23 *Preform (Courtesean)(cross class)/ 5 ranks / (+5 Int) =10 - (for RP) *Spellcraft...................... / 15 ranks / (+5 Int) =15 *Spot (cross class).............. / 3 ranks / (+1 Wis) =9 *Use Magic Device................ / 18 ranks / (+4 Cha) =22 Feats as gained: 1-Improved Flight - Monster Manual 3-Obtain Familiar - Complete Arcane 6-Percise Shot - Tome and Blood 9-Supernatural Transformation - Fiends Folio 12-Tattoo Magic - Lords of Darkness 15-Forge Ring - Player's Handbook Invocations per level: 1-Eldritch Spear 2-Eldritch Spear, Summon Swarm 3-Eldritch Spear, Summon Swarm 4-Eldritch Spear, Summon Swarm, Entropic Warding 5-Eldritch Spear, Summon Swarm, Entropic Warding 6-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness 7-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness 8-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling 9-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling 10-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling, Brimstone Blast 11-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling, Brimstone Blast / Vitrolic Blast 12-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, Summon Swarm / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling, Brimstone Blast / Vitrolic Blast 13-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, See The Unseen / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling, Brimstone Blast / Vitrolic Blast, Tenacious Plauge 14-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, See The Unseen / Hungry Darkness, Voracious Dispelling, Brimstone Blast / Vitrolic Blast, Tenacious Plauge 15-Eldritch Spear, Devil's Sight, See The Unseen / Hungry Darkness, Hellrime Blast, Brimstone Blast / Vitrolic Blast, Tenacious Plauge, Devour Magic Please take a look and let me know how this looks. I am not familiar with some of these things and am going how how I read them... not how they play, so your input would be valued. Anything Im missing? Anything I should loose? Why and what? Thanks everyone... I look forward to you shedding some XP on me!
Zubon 04-26-05, 04:14 PM	Curious, have you developed (or planned) defenses against magic and auto-hits? If you are an Avariel (ECL+3) Warlock 2, that's effectively 5th level, so a 5th level Warmage is an even-level encounter for the group. You have 2d6+2 hp (6+3.5+2=11.5 average), and one Magic Missile spell will do 3d4+3+Int damage (2.5*3+3=10.5+Int average). Assuming an Intelligence of 12, Magic Missile one-shots you. This isn't picking on Avariel as a race, more of any ECL+3 race. Surviving at least those first few levels can be a bear, unless your DM is going easy on you, and Magic Missile isn't exactly a rare spell. A single troll is also CR 5. 1d6+3 + 1d6+6*2 + 2d6+9 (rend) should outright kill a party member (minimum 25 damage if both claws hit, maximum 54 on a full attack). Thank the gods for ranged attacks.
Lostboy1701 04-27-05, 03:44 AM	Curious, have you developed (or planned) defenses against magic and auto-hits? I honestly havent really thought about those things... just kinda assumed things would fall in place with them. I do have Ac of 19 right now (Thanks to the 22 dex (+4 being Avariel) and an Int of 20 (another +2 being Avariel) so Im kinda hard to hit. The wings are keeping me away from all melee attacks, but Im still vulnerable to ranged and magic. what can I do at this point to reduce the damage to me?