average 20 attacks at lvl 16 - whirlwind war hulk [Archive] - Wizards Community

average 20 attacks at lvl 16 - whirlwind war hulk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nice2meetU
07-15-05, 12:07 PM average 20 attacks - the 20. is a botch.
I'm interested in using a war hulk. after i read through the PrC i simply thought: massive swing + whirwind attack, to gain more attacks.
i searched the CO faq and board and after about 30 minutes hadnt found an issue concerning this.

so i start with my sources (red and bold is for the quintessence for the combo):
from the 3.5 SRD
WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]
Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
from Previews - Mat Smith reveals what's "In the Works" for fall. - By Mat Smith (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a)
- War Hulk PrC is included - so i distribute it as quasi open game content -
Mighty Swing (Ex): Starting at 4th level, the war hulk can make mighty swings. A mighty swing is like a great swing except that it is an attack action rather than a full-round action. Thus, the war hulk can move and make a mighty swing or (if he can make multiple attacks) make multiple mighty swings in a single round.

Great Swing (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the war hulk is able to make a great, sweeping swing with a melee weapon. In melee, as a full-round action, the war hulk can choose three squares adjacent to each other (he must threaten all of them). His attack applies to all creatures in those squares. Make one attack roll and apply that roll as an attack against each defender. If the war hulk rolls a critical hit, only the first creature suffers the critical hit.
(...)
The war hulk may skip creatures, attacking only those he wants to. For example, if there are three creatures in a row -- an enemy, an ally, and another enemy -- the war hulk can choose those three squares for the great swing but strike only the enemies.
i interpret the "swing"-abilities as not beeing additional attacks - the whirlwind feat would not stack if there are additional ones.
IMO a "swing" is a single attack that hits multiple foes, so these abilities would stack.

scenario 1: any large creature with whirlwind attack and war hulk prc @ 4.

If he fights 4 opponents in line and range, it would result in 4 attacks (whirlwind attack), but each foe is possibly hit 4 times (migthy swing).

at level 10 of war hulk, he may attack all creatures on any attack, part of an attack action, within range, so:
scenario 2: any large creature with whirlwind attack and war hulk prc @ 10.
ECL: 16; 5 fighter 10 war hulk and half giant.

if there would be the maximum of 32 creatures in threat range, this would result in 32 attack rolls, each attack threatening each foe.

this could be tweaked by "nanites" to get more attacks - always attack only a single "nanite" on each "swing". a war hulk is allowed, not to attack possible targets - sparing other PCs, or weak monsters. you could also target unattained objects, a a stone of a wall or on the ground - with a bit creativity she attacks till she botches.
this gets insane, if your DM allows to target squares with a handheld weapon. then she gets an attack per square + an attack per target.

after checking the minis errata i just seen, that a "swing" replaces a normal attack, so a war hulk gets his bugs out of combat reflexes and cleave.
Gehenna
07-15-05, 06:35 PM Or you could just use a weapon with the skillful enhancement, or you could make a persistent divine power build, but whatever.
SigmaJargon
07-15-05, 07:20 PM ... and the bag of rats fighter lives again?

No, really. If a WWWH get 250 fine creatures in his opponent's square and then whirlwinds, he gets 250 attacks applying to that square and to two others. Thats a good chance to vorpal, even if it happens only on a 20.
Gehenna
07-15-05, 07:23 PM By good chance, he means 99.99973% chance. :D
90 Rats will get you a 99% chance.
X-Codes
07-15-05, 07:29 PM It is heavily based on interpetation, and all you need is a Divine Power item and you get 4 attacks against everything around you, anyway.
FlimFlam
07-15-05, 07:55 PM They messed up some of the wording there... An attack action can only be a Standard Action or a Full Attack Action. You have to pick one of them if you plan on attacking. An attack, however, is not an action at all. I think they probably meant to say "A Mighty Swing is like a Great Swing, except that it applies to all attacks made in the round".
X-Codes
07-15-05, 08:18 PM If I were DM I'd let ya do it so long as you didn't do that Bag of Rats thing. If you did that then I'd have to send a Conjurer after you.

Besides, you are making this way too hard. A Divine Power 1/day item is just over 10k, and it lets you (as a level 6 fighter/10 war hulk) make 4 attacks against each thing you threaten. With War Hulk strength and Power Attack, they won't last the entire beating.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nice2meetU 07-15-05, 12:07 PM	average 20 attacks - the 20. is a botch. I'm interested in using a war hulk. after i read through the PrC i simply thought: massive swing + whirwind attack, to gain more attacks. i searched the CO faq and board and after about 30 minutes hadnt found an issue concerning this. so i start with my sources (red and bold is for the quintessence for the combo): from the 3.5 SRD WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL] Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities. from Previews - Mat Smith reveals what's "In the Works" for fall. - By Mat Smith (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a) - War Hulk PrC is included - so i distribute it as quasi open game content - Mighty Swing (Ex): Starting at 4th level, the war hulk can make mighty swings. A mighty swing is like a great swing except that it is an attack action rather than a full-round action. Thus, the war hulk can move and make a mighty swing or (if he can make multiple attacks) make multiple mighty swings in a single round. Great Swing (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the war hulk is able to make a great, sweeping swing with a melee weapon. In melee, as a full-round action, the war hulk can choose three squares adjacent to each other (he must threaten all of them). His attack applies to all creatures in those squares. Make one attack roll and apply that roll as an attack against each defender. If the war hulk rolls a critical hit, only the first creature suffers the critical hit. (...) The war hulk may skip creatures, attacking only those he wants to. For example, if there are three creatures in a row -- an enemy, an ally, and another enemy -- the war hulk can choose those three squares for the great swing but strike only the enemies. i interpret the "swing"-abilities as not beeing additional attacks - the whirlwind feat would not stack if there are additional ones. IMO a "swing" is a single attack that hits multiple foes, so these abilities would stack. scenario 1: any large creature with whirlwind attack and war hulk prc @ 4. If he fights 4 opponents in line and range, it would result in 4 attacks (whirlwind attack), but each foe is possibly hit 4 times (migthy swing). at level 10 of war hulk, he may attack all creatures on any attack, part of an attack action, within range, so: scenario 2: any large creature with whirlwind attack and war hulk prc @ 10. ECL: 16; 5 fighter 10 war hulk and half giant. if there would be the maximum of 32 creatures in threat range, this would result in 32 attack rolls, each attack threatening each foe. this could be tweaked by "nanites" to get more attacks - always attack only a single "nanite" on each "swing". a war hulk is allowed, not to attack possible targets - sparing other PCs, or weak monsters. you could also target unattained objects, a a stone of a wall or on the ground - with a bit creativity she attacks till she botches. this gets insane, if your DM allows to target squares with a handheld weapon. then she gets an attack per square + an attack per target. after checking the minis errata i just seen, that a "swing" replaces a normal attack, so a war hulk gets his bugs out of combat reflexes and cleave.
Gehenna 07-15-05, 06:35 PM	Or you could just use a weapon with the skillful enhancement, or you could make a persistent divine power build, but whatever.
SigmaJargon 07-15-05, 07:20 PM	... and the bag of rats fighter lives again? No, really. If a WWWH get 250 fine creatures in his opponent's square and then whirlwinds, he gets 250 attacks applying to that square and to two others. Thats a good chance to vorpal, even if it happens only on a 20.
Gehenna 07-15-05, 07:23 PM	By good chance, he means 99.99973% chance. :D 90 Rats will get you a 99% chance.
X-Codes 07-15-05, 07:29 PM	It is heavily based on interpetation, and all you need is a Divine Power item and you get 4 attacks against everything around you, anyway.
FlimFlam 07-15-05, 07:55 PM	They messed up some of the wording there... An attack action can only be a Standard Action or a Full Attack Action. You have to pick one of them if you plan on attacking. An attack, however, is not an action at all. I think they probably meant to say "A Mighty Swing is like a Great Swing, except that it applies to all attacks made in the round".
X-Codes 07-15-05, 08:18 PM	If I were DM I'd let ya do it so long as you didn't do that Bag of Rats thing. If you did that then I'd have to send a Conjurer after you. Besides, you are making this way too hard. A Divine Power 1/day item is just over 10k, and it lets you (as a level 6 fighter/10 war hulk) make 4 attacks against each thing you threaten. With War Hulk strength and Power Attack, they won't last the entire beating.