Post/Author/DateTime	Post
olothfaern 12-01-04, 12:05 AM	ENERGY DRAIN AND NEGATIVE LEVELS Some horrible creatures, especially undead monsters, possess a fearsome supernatural ability to drain levels from those they strike in combat. The creature making an energy drain attack draws a portion of its victim’s life force from her. Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough. Each successful energy drain attack bestows one or more negative levels on the opponent. A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained. –1 on all skill checks and ability checks. –1 on attack rolls and saving throws. –5 hit points. –1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level). If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level. Negative levels remain for 24 hours or until removed with a spell, such as restoration. After 24 hours, the afflicted creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 attacker’s HD + attacker’s Cha modifier). (The DC is provided in the attacker’s description.) If the saving throw succeeds, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each negative level it has gained. If the save fails, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one. A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight. A creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative level it bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect). Rune Magic (Ex): A runesmith learns to prepare his arcane spells as runes inscribed on solid objects (usually smmall tablets of stone, but other objects are possible). He prepares spells as normal, except instead of readying the spells in his mind, he readies them in the form of runes. ... In casting the spell, the rune is erased from the tablet, just as a spell cast normally by a wizard is erased from his mind. Now it seems that even if you don't prepare spells in your mind (becasue you're a Runesmith), that gaining a negative level still causes you to lose access to spells prepared in rune form. How? Does the wight's (for instance) touch erase the rune on the stone slab in your pocket? Of course I know its magic, and any overlogical [<-- hey it's a new word!] analysis will shine light on all sorts of inconsistancies. But I still want to know if this has come up in anyone else's game (or fevered mind). If so did you (would you): A.) Rule that they do lose their rune-spells. Setting the precedent that all effects that affect spells in the mind, effect rune spells also. OR... B.) Rule that their rune-spells are unaffected. Setting the precedent that all effects that affect spells in the mind, ONLY affect spells in the mind. I took option "B" because I thought it offset the extra vulnerability of having the spells in rune form in the first place (a regular wizard can't have his prepared spells physically taken from him, so a runesmith shouldn't have his rune-spells affected by something that targets him).
catharz 12-01-04, 01:06 AM	I wouuld rule that C) The rune remains but you forget how to activate it ;)
JosephKell 12-01-04, 02:30 AM	I would rule that C) The rune remains but you forget how to activate it ;)Yeah... that makes a lot of sense. But I would phrase it, "The magic connection between the Runecaster and the Rune is severed causing the Rune to be erased as if used." In all ways except that they are etched in metal and don't suffer from ASF, Runespells are prepared and suffer from the same limits of Prepared Spells. The only reason Gaining Negative Levels doesn't approach Runespells is because it was written before the Runesmith was written! The rules are written to be as forward compatible as possible, but sometimes that isn't possible.
olothfaern 12-01-04, 01:29 PM	I wouuld rule that C) The rune remains but you forget how to activate it ;) The idea of forgetting how to activate the rune would open up the hairy issue of normal rune vs shared rune. I suppose that would be the way to avoid losing spells 2 levels lower than your maximum. [*snip*]But I would phrase it, "The magic connection between the Runecaster and the Rune is severed causing the Rune to be erased as if used."[*/snip*] As far as the rune being erased, it just doesn't make sense in the magical framework. Though if you exposed the runes to negative energy, they should save as you or be erased. Thanks for the responses, I'll repost this in the PrC section I think that's where you're supposed to put these questions.
Pauper 12-01-04, 01:53 PM	As far as the rune being erased, it just doesn't make sense in the magical framework. Why? The reason it doesn't make sense to you is that you're clinging to a presumption about how rune magic operates (once placed in a rune, the spell is independent of the caster) which isn't the best way to conceptualize the situation. JosephKell's explanation is dead-on. The distinction between runes and spell slots is far more akin to the distinction between prepared spell slots and spontaneous spell slots than it is between spell slots and magic items - after all, you don't spend XP or take longer than normal preparation time to prepare a rune in the manner you're describing. Mechanically, it is a spell - just a spell prepared in a different 'format'. If it were a magic item, it would have its own independent caster level, and might not even trigger AoOs when activated (though scrolls, which are magic items, do trigger AoOs, and the rune is similar enough to a scroll that such an equivalance might be the best assumption). Mechanically, there's no distinction between runes and spells in the situation you're describing. Granted, characters don't comprehend rules mechanics, but that's not the issue - the question is how the rules work, not how the character comprehends the effect of the rules in the game world. -- Pauper
olothfaern 12-01-04, 02:14 PM	I decided to PM my reply and I reposted in Spells and Magic, not PrC