Avoiding Anthropomorphic Bat Cheese [Archive] - Wizards Community

Avoiding Anthropomorphic Bat Cheese [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DM Zoc
12-12-06, 05:31 AM The end product of a silly discussion with my GM is that the anthropomorphic bat (and presumably other animals) have been okayed for the next campaign. It would seem like I should have no problem optimizing this character, except I really don't want to play a druid or cleric.

The Complete books are in, as is the PHB2 and just about any variant class features in UA. Setting-specific books are out. Other books are dependent upon us gaining access to them in the near future (so anything from a Wizards preview article should be open game). I was looking for something like a martial class, but the level 1 limit is fairly restrictive on this point.

In summary, I would request aid developing an anthropomorphic race (such as bat) into a powerful first level character in a class other than cleric/druid.
FruitOfTheShroom
12-12-06, 08:50 AM You might want to look into the Ninja class from Complete Adventurer -- it gains a lot from the dex/wisdom bonuses from the Anthropomorphic Bat.
DaveTheMagicWeasel
12-12-06, 08:54 AM Swordsage + Shadow Blade if you can use ToB
wingedcoyote
12-12-06, 10:12 AM Swordsage + Shadow Blade if you can use ToB

Beat me to it. :)
DM Zoc
12-12-06, 03:40 PM I actually was thinking about ninja, now that you bring it up. The lack of a dex bonus, and the huge strength penalty, would seem to make it a lackluster combatant until higher levels where I might take Zen Archery. Does anyone recall if ninja are proficient in shuriken? I might as well exploit the 1-damage minimum if I'm going to ignore my strength.

I'll try and get access to a ToB to check out this Swordsage. Does it benefit more from Wisdom than a PsiWarrior?
GaffeR
12-12-06, 03:46 PM Ninjas are indeed proficient in shurikens.

Swordsages use Wisdom for bonus to AC in light armor, DCs on some of their maneuvers, and damage on strikes from chosen schools.
Fallenangel359
12-12-06, 03:57 PM swordsages are really fun... just make sure you get the adaptive style feat... that'll keep you chugging all day long
Caelic
12-12-06, 05:43 PM Aim for Vigilante. That way, you can strike fear into the hearts of criminals (a cowardly, superstitious lot...)

(Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;) )
Skrimshaw
12-12-06, 06:10 PM mmm "Bat Cheese"
DM Zoc
12-13-06, 01:40 AM Aim for Vigilante. That way, you can strike fear into the hearts of criminals (a cowardly, superstitious lot...)

(Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;) )

Hmm... vigilante... man-bat.... I don't see where you're going with this. Although, I believe the most recent film does prove conclusively that Batman is indeed a ninja. It looks like I'll be taking that option. Thanks, all.
Valdrax
12-13-06, 01:51 AM I actually was thinking about ninja, now that you bring it up. The lack of a dex bonus, and the huge strength penalty, would seem to make it a lackluster combatant until higher levels where I might take Zen Archery.

I would point out that a Ninja gets their best damage primarly from their [name of slightly nerfed Sneak Attack] class feature more than from their Strength bonus.
DM Zoc
12-13-06, 02:16 AM I would point out that a Ninja gets their best damage primarly from their [name of slightly nerfed Sneak Attack] class feature more than from their Strength bonus.

Yes, but as a level one man-bat ninja, I would still have the strength penalty to deal with. A small shuriken does one damage, but subtracting two from that really starts to matter when you're adding in a d6. D6-1 is significantly pathetic damage, considering I could go for the flat 1 damage the rest of the time. Can level one ninja even become invisible? I've forgotten.
Seeker of Truth
12-13-06, 03:05 AM Maybe an anthropomorphic baleen whale barbarian?
DM Zoc
12-13-06, 05:01 AM Maybe an anthropomorphic baleen whale barbarian?

Too many racial hit dice. Limiting it to ECL 1 gives me access to, if I recall, monkey, rat, raven, and bat. As much fun as it would be to have +16 to physical stats and no LA, the racial hit dice are something I'd consider to balance the option.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM Zoc 12-12-06, 05:31 AM	The end product of a silly discussion with my GM is that the anthropomorphic bat (and presumably other animals) have been okayed for the next campaign. It would seem like I should have no problem optimizing this character, except I really don't want to play a druid or cleric. The Complete books are in, as is the PHB2 and just about any variant class features in UA. Setting-specific books are out. Other books are dependent upon us gaining access to them in the near future (so anything from a Wizards preview article should be open game). I was looking for something like a martial class, but the level 1 limit is fairly restrictive on this point. In summary, I would request aid developing an anthropomorphic race (such as bat) into a powerful first level character in a class other than cleric/druid.
FruitOfTheShroom 12-12-06, 08:50 AM	You might want to look into the Ninja class from Complete Adventurer -- it gains a lot from the dex/wisdom bonuses from the Anthropomorphic Bat.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 12-12-06, 08:54 AM	Swordsage + Shadow Blade if you can use ToB
wingedcoyote 12-12-06, 10:12 AM	Swordsage + Shadow Blade if you can use ToB Beat me to it. :)
DM Zoc 12-12-06, 03:40 PM	I actually was thinking about ninja, now that you bring it up. The lack of a dex bonus, and the huge strength penalty, would seem to make it a lackluster combatant until higher levels where I might take Zen Archery. Does anyone recall if ninja are proficient in shuriken? I might as well exploit the 1-damage minimum if I'm going to ignore my strength. I'll try and get access to a ToB to check out this Swordsage. Does it benefit more from Wisdom than a PsiWarrior?
GaffeR 12-12-06, 03:46 PM	Ninjas are indeed proficient in shurikens. Swordsages use Wisdom for bonus to AC in light armor, DCs on some of their maneuvers, and damage on strikes from chosen schools.
Fallenangel359 12-12-06, 03:57 PM	swordsages are really fun... just make sure you get the adaptive style feat... that'll keep you chugging all day long
Caelic 12-12-06, 05:43 PM	Aim for Vigilante. That way, you can strike fear into the hearts of criminals (a cowardly, superstitious lot...) (Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;) )
Skrimshaw 12-12-06, 06:10 PM	mmm "Bat Cheese"
DM Zoc 12-13-06, 01:40 AM	Aim for Vigilante. That way, you can strike fear into the hearts of criminals (a cowardly, superstitious lot...) (Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;) ) Hmm... vigilante... man-bat.... I don't see where you're going with this. Although, I believe the most recent film does prove conclusively that Batman is indeed a ninja. It looks like I'll be taking that option. Thanks, all.
Valdrax 12-13-06, 01:51 AM	I actually was thinking about ninja, now that you bring it up. The lack of a dex bonus, and the huge strength penalty, would seem to make it a lackluster combatant until higher levels where I might take Zen Archery. I would point out that a Ninja gets their best damage primarly from their [name of slightly nerfed Sneak Attack] class feature more than from their Strength bonus.
DM Zoc 12-13-06, 02:16 AM	I would point out that a Ninja gets their best damage primarly from their [name of slightly nerfed Sneak Attack] class feature more than from their Strength bonus. Yes, but as a level one man-bat ninja, I would still have the strength penalty to deal with. A small shuriken does one damage, but subtracting two from that really starts to matter when you're adding in a d6. D6-1 is significantly pathetic damage, considering I could go for the flat 1 damage the rest of the time. Can level one ninja even become invisible? I've forgotten.
Seeker of Truth 12-13-06, 03:05 AM	Maybe an anthropomorphic baleen whale barbarian?
DM Zoc 12-13-06, 05:01 AM	Maybe an anthropomorphic baleen whale barbarian? Too many racial hit dice. Limiting it to ECL 1 gives me access to, if I recall, monkey, rat, raven, and bat. As much fun as it would be to have +16 to physical stats and no LA, the racial hit dice are something I'd consider to balance the option.