Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elranzo 01-27-04, 09:23 PM	I'm looking to make the best fighting ranger possible. With 2 weapon fighting (preferably short swords)and with a bow. i don't care much about armor, the plan is to pick em off before they get to me, but if they do i can get as many attacks as possible in the round to kill them with both weapons. (3.0) i have the fighters guide and the natures ally's guide. Thanks everyone.
Hammerhand 01-27-04, 09:48 PM	This doesnt really seem like a good use of feats. if you are going to be an archer ranger i would never waste all those feats to be able to dual weild. My advice would be to go the bow route and keep a great sword strapped to your back for those occasions where melee is a must.
Elranzo 01-27-04, 11:01 PM	ummmm.... don't rangers get improved 2 weapon fighting for free at 7th level or something? i do not have the books with me ( my bro has em and i'm not with him) so i cannot be sure. I like the ranger idea because i can get the animal to fight the enemies up close and then i can shoot them from afar. plus the small amount of spells i get wwould help some too.
Morguthalmorn 01-27-04, 11:44 PM	Hello?!? have you guys even read the rulebooks? I understand you mean ver 3.0, and here, the ranger gets ambidexterity and two weapon fighting for free at first level. Only functionable while wearing light/no armor, and not while using a twoheaded weapon (twobladed sword, orc double axe etc.) You could play an elf to get the +2 dex bonus = char dex score 20. If you are smart, you might also play human to get an extra feat. This way, you might begin play with two feats. my choices for this char. would be weapon finesse shortsword and point blank shot. If I were to play an elf char. id choose weapon finesse. (If you want to finish them off before they are close on you, you can ignore the precise shot thinking of a pure archer.) You are not in danger of having to shoot into combat. You would want to join the fray. My next feat (3rd level) would be expertise (it makes you able to adjust better in combat.) Unless of course your DM is a magic elvenchainmail tossing maniac, and your AC isnt a problem. My conclusion on the other hand is this: Stop caring so much for feats and technicalities. It is much more fun working hard on your personality history etc. (unless of course your DM is a dungeoncrawl loving hack and slash bozo....) Good luck, good gaming. Yours truly. [Edit: No need to call names. If you want to give advice, that's fine, but refrain from name calling please]
Morguthalmorn 01-27-04, 11:52 PM	And by the way, dont even get me started on telling you what to do if you take a couple of fighter-levels. There are LOTS of possible things to do. head for whirlwind attack, quick draw, roleplay-enhancing feats like endurance, alertness ... And no, the ranger does not get improved two weapon fighting at 7th or any other level, but he can buy it as soon as he has base attack +9 or better. He does not have to buy ambidex. and two wpn fightn. first. Again: Read the books. Natures ally, masters of the wild, sword and fist etc.. Youll go mad. As I seem to have done... And even worse. Im the DM.. Do you realize how crazy my players are. AND the worst of it all. I almost never have any combat.!! all problem solving and roleplaying. =) again, good luck.
Morguthalmorn 01-27-04, 11:52 PM	And by the way, dont even get me started on telling you what to do if you take a couple of fighter-levels. There are LOTS of possible things to do. head for whirlwind attack, quick draw, roleplay-enhancing feats like endurance, alertness ... And no, the ranger does not get improved two weapon fighting at 7th or any other level, but he can buy it as soon as he has base attack +9 or better. He does not have to buy ambidex. and two wpn fightn. first. Again: Read the books. Natures ally, masters of the wild, sword and fist etc.. Youll go mad. As I seem to have done... And even worse. Im the DM.. Do you realize how crazy my players are. AND the worst of it all. I almost never have any combat.!! all problem solving and roleplaying. =) again, good luck.
Elranzo 01-27-04, 11:58 PM	Wow dude. i was just asking what you would do. If you wanted to post what you would do thats fine but trying to make fun of me and how i play doesn't seem necessary. Notice how i'm asking you how to build this character, i'm not used to building heavy combat players, but me and my group have decided to change direction with a new gm and he told us it'd be heavy fighting. My last character was very well developed thank you very much, he was a half-orc wizard (yeah, tell me about it, i'm such a munchkin). Now calm it down and if you wanna post what you would do, please do, otherwise, don't post.:angel: [Edit: bashing in return to a post you didn't like is not appropriate. Please keep it civil]
Elranzo 01-28-04, 12:00 AM	oh and by the way, notice how i'm in character optimization and not development. I'm trying to optimize him, maybe i'll take a look at the development area where you'd probably be more help.
Funny Slaughter 01-28-04, 05:36 AM	seems that there is some serious advice needed here to stop this bashing. ranger 3.0 is crap. after 1st level. that was common sense on this board and is even more with the much better 3.5 version out. if i was you i would ask for the 3.5 ranger, works well in 3.0. or use montes version, some different ideas but well done imo. if you dont want or are not allowed you have to face the fact that your ranger has only one level in the class or is damned to mediocrity. TWF is best relished with bonus-damage. sneak-attack with a few or lots of rogue-levels, charisma via divine might (cleric, holy liberator, paladin etc) and similar things. just be aware of the fact that wearing light armor and having low hitdice is one of the worst conditions to exchange fullrounds, thats the reason why i never liked this style. nothing wrong by the numbers at first glance, but experience tells a different story. to get an awesome ranger i would suggest to take just the first level, find a PrC that fits your taste and take corresponding core-classes to get there. ranger1/fighter2/barbarian2/rogue3 would be a pretty basic TWF-base for example, getting the best out of the classes. (barb2 for uncanny dodge 2, leave it if you dont like it) gs Funny
Neonsamurai 01-28-04, 05:37 AM	2WF is only viable if you have around 7-10 points of bonus damage that isn't halved on your off-hand. Thus you require either some rogue levels (for sneak attack) or other sources of bonus damage like favored enemies or swashbuckler's canny strike ability. You won't be able to master both ways of combat thus you need to specialize to some extent. Personally i would set archery on secondary priority and concentrate on 2WF. To get enough bonus damage you either add 3 rogue levels or you abuse the feats extra favored enemy (from Masters of the Wild) and improved favored enemy (from Book of Exalted deeds). Get your 2WF feats from your ranger bonus feats, get point blank shot and rapid shot from your normal human bonus/level feats and put the rest in extra favored enemy and improved favored enemy. You also could go for the Stalker of Evil abuse. This PrC gets favored enemy (evil) which you then utilise with Foe Hunter (Master of the Wild) to get some nifty bonuses versus most enemies (all evil aligned enemies so to speak). Damn i didn't notice you're playing 3.0, i hope it helps anyways :(
Tresh DaBist 01-28-04, 05:40 AM	Here is my advice. First consult 3.5e PHB since ranger suffered radical changes there. I suggest you take human or halfelf race. Try to get 16 or more on Dex, 14 or more on Str. On your 1st level (as human) chose Dodge and Point Blank Shot feats, 2nd level take a level in fighter class (which is by me unlogical combination but it is allowed by rulebooks) and chose TWFighting (by 3.5E Ambydexterity and TW Fighting are one feat). Next take level in ranger and choose archery style (this will give you rapid shot) and take Far Shot feat. On 4 level increase you Dex, take 1 level of Fighter and take TWDefense feat. From now on only take ranger levels. If you play dungeon crawl on 6 level take Improved TW Fighting aquire Breastplate (Chain shirt if Dex is 18 or more) and go in the front rows. By then you will have AC 20 (without magical armor) and 4 attacks per round (with 14 STR and no magical weapons) +6/+6/+1/+1. This seting alows you to hail a lot of arrows from afar and when enemies aproach you can deal serious damage. Afterwards you can take Quick Draw, Greater TW Fighting and so on. I hope this helps.
Belldandy 01-28-04, 02:20 PM	I guess you're making a 3.0 ranger? (It sorta says I think) If so. Go 4 ranger to get a 1st level spell (with a wisdom of 12 or more) Choose that spell as Hunters Mercy. (It gives you an automatic hit and you roll for confirm, OR most DMS would say you roll to hit and if you hit, it's an automatic threat). TECHNICALLY the book does say it's an automatic hit. And I've been fighting with this bloke over it for ages! Anyways! Thats a good start. To follow up get many many pearls of power level 1 so you can cast it many times a day. Fighter 4 is good to add for focus and specialisation with the bow up close. As is Rogue 3 for sneak attack (Although see below) Feats I'd head for Multishot and Rapid shot and the like. Fling em out like they were bits of wood! (This is all for a ranged ranger!) There was an optional rule for rangers to specialise in ranged combat (getting point blank shot and rapid shot instead of 2weaponfighting and ambidexterity) Head for that to free up more feats! For archer prestige classes head for Peerless archer (I hear 3 lvls or so, I've not even seen it), Order of the Bowinitiate (I think gives ranged sneak so would be a lil better than a rogue as you don't lose the BA) Deepwood sniper is also good to keep shooting them in melee! Then you don't NEED to use swords..... unless you wanna!!! And can you get a wand of entangle? If they can't move,you can then just shoot them!!!! For a more melee ranger, get some levels of rogue (ninja if possible to not lose base attack, but thats rokugan) for the sneak attacks and flank with anyone else always, becoming a mass attacking (as he says above, 4 attacks at level 6 (or 7 or 8 with rogue levels), before haste, wink wink) each doing up to d6shortsword (+lots of sneak?) ranger1, fighter 2,barbarian 2, rogue 3 8th level with BA+7 (So +7/+7/+2/+2) doing d6shortsword damage, +2d6 per weapon, per attack when flanking or attacking someone without dex! Add ya strength or finesse, maybe more fighter to get specialisation, with extra rage for more damage there too! more rogue to keep the sneak attack up and the skills! (Just watch out for multiclass penalties) And if all else fails? Go a level of monk or two and use ki weapons to be able to flurry with each hand? (can you do that? with two weapons of ki and speed? could this character if he could somehow afford the +6weapons (what about 150,000gp) get 2normal attacks and a flurry attack and a haste attack with each arm?! Go mug many people. Get money. Buy swords. Go 8 attacks at level 8!
PhaedrusXY 01-28-04, 04:00 PM	If you play in a 3.0 group that doesn't min/max heavily, a single classed ranger can be decent at low to mid levels and good at high levels. I played a ranger in 2nd edition, and when we converted to 3rd I just converted him over and continued playing him. Alot of the folks on here hate the 3.0 ranger, but the fact is once he can cast Polymorph Self his power level goes up tremendously. Of course, he doesn't get that till 14th or 15th level (depending on Wisdom). My character is a human ranger 14/barbarian1 with the feats Alertness (a waste I realize now), Power Attack, Quick Draw, Leadership (applied to my Legendary Wolf animal companion through house rules), EWP: Bastard Sword, Improved Critical: Bastard Sword, and Brew Potion (not too optimized either, but our group doesn't have a cleric, so I took it to make healing potions). Quick draw is useful for being able to use either my bow or my sword and get a full attack in immediately. His stats are Str 17, Con 16, Dex 18, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 10. I don't remember exactly how I got them like that. The character was reincarnated once and his Con went up some with his new body (he had lost Con in 2nd ed from being Raised before that), and I think some of his other stats may have changed a bit also. So he has some high stats overall. When we get into a serious fight, I polymorph myself into a Stone Giant. Since it is humanoid shaped, I can use all of my equipment, and it grows to match my size. I almost never fight using two weapons, since gripping my bastard sword two-handed and Power Attacking is superior with the high strength of the giant. The stone giant form gives my character base Str 27, +11 Natural Armor, and a base movement rate of 40. With the barbarian level and raging, the Str becomes 31 and movement 50. He does fine in melee fights. Of course, this is a low magic, low wealth game and we don't have a dedicated healer. So we usually only have one encounter per game, and have time to rest and heal up in between. If we have more than that, we are in trouble. And you could argue that the fighter could pay a wizard to permanently polymorph him into a Stone Giant too. But then he'd have to walk around all the time as a giant, and he wouldn't have the possibility of turning into something else if he really needed to. Also, if you use Masters of the Wild some of the spells in there are quite good. Check out Briar Web and as someone else said Hunter's Mercy. The legendary animals make great companions also. And in 3rd edition, you can technically have a companion with HD equal to your ranger levels. Of course, there is the clause in the book that says if you adventure you usually can't maintain that many HD of animal companions. But you CAN cast the spell and get an animal companion of that power level. If the DM wants to take it away from you later, that's his deal. Just go get another one. ;) Dire animals are great too, but they are hard to travel around with once the party starts using teleportation instead of walking or riding. As much as people like the 3.5 ranger for multiclassing and min-maxing (myself included), I still say that the 3.0 ranger could be a much better melee fighter at higher levels. This is mainly due to that single spell Polymorph Self being on his spell list. With the 3.5 ranger, you are basically restricted to taking the archery path or multiclassing with rogue.