Bad Domains. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bad Domains. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
X-Codes
10-22-06, 05:16 AM There are sub-optimal choices for every class in the game. Theres no getting around that. So I've been going over the domains trying to come up with ways to get some of them some more use.

Instead of the Cleric, I'm going to use an altered Mystic class. The final result is between the two, but a little closer to the Mystic. The following changes are going to be made:

1) Mystics gain two domains instead of one. They still don't get Turn Undead. Instead, Mystics with the Sun domain get Turn Undead and Mystics with the Undeath domain get Rebuke Undead.

2) Mystics don't learn their domain spells based on their spellcasting progression, but based on their Mystic class levels. At 1st, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th they gain one bonus spell known from one of their domains, up to the highest level of spells they can cast. Some PrC's will continue this progression.

3) Two feats will be added to the game: Turning Mastery and Rebuking Mastery.

Turning Mastery [Divine]
Req.: Cha 15+, ability to turn or destroy creatures with a base turning level of 6.
Benefit: Pick one specific ability to turn or destroy creatures that you have, such as the Air domain's ability to turn or destroy earth creatures. When you use this ability, you can spend an extra turn attempt to destroy all creatures you successfully turned.
You gain a +4 bonus on turning damage rolls with the selected ability.
Special: Can be taken multiple times. Each time it apply to a different ability to turn or destroy creatures.

Rebuking Mastery [Divine]
Req.: Cha 15+, ability to rebuke or command creatures with a base rebuking level of 6.
Benefit: Pick one specific ability to rebuke or command creatures that you have, such as the Air domain's ability to rebuke or command air creatures. When you use this ability, you can spend an extra turn attempt to command all creatures you normally rebuke, so long as you do not exceed your maximum HD worth of creatures commanded.
You can control 4 more HD worth of creatures using the selected ability.
Special: Can be taken multiple times. Each time it apply to a different ability to turn or destroy creatures.

Base turning or rebuking level basically means your Mystic level, although some PrC's will continue progressing domain abilities.

4) Mystics don't have to follow a deity, but they can't pick diametrically opposed domains (Good and Evil, Law and Chaos, Sun and Undeath, Air and Earth, Fire and Water). They also still have to meet the alignment requirements for the aligned domains.

5) Domains are going to be taken from the PHB and Spell Compendium, except the Planar Domains. They pretty well suck, anyway.

So, following these rules, which domains simply suck?
X-Codes
10-23-06, 02:18 AM :bump:
PhoenixInferno
10-23-06, 02:29 AM I don't think this changes the equation on whether a domain is "bad" or "good". If a domain is bad, its spells are probably on the Cleric/Mystic spell list already and getting more of them doesn't help, and/or its granted power isn't useful.
X-Codes
10-23-06, 02:47 AM I don't think this changes the equation on whether a domain is "bad" or "good". If a domain is bad, its spells are probably on the Cleric/Mystic spell list already and getting more of them doesn't help, and/or its granted power isn't useful.
I know, which is why I'm posting this here. Which of these domains qualify?

I know the Animal domain gets killed under these rules, since the only worthwile Animal domain spells are late-level ones which they may not get (if they PrC out at least). The Water Domain also has a number of *very* niche spells early, and the late-level ones, while good, are again potentially lost with the PrC levels. Thats why I'm looking to tweak them.

For example, I'm thinking I'd change the Animal domain ability to make the Mystic use the Summon Nature's Ally spells instead of the Summon Monster spells. I'd probably also change the Water domain's first-level spell to Ice Dagger or Wings of the Sea or something of the like.

I'm just trying to find the obviously subpar domain choices and bring them up a little so that not all of my divine spellcasters have the Spell and Planning domains.
fnord
10-23-06, 04:33 AM It seems to me that any domain with Rebuking, allowing Rebuking Mastery, could be very good. A little turn optimization could get you some very good servants. It should be trivial to get control a creature with hd equal to your own. Who wouldn't want a pet Pyrohydra at level 5?

If you have a good way to FIND decent creatures, this could be very useful. The Elemental Domains lend themselves to this, since you can call up elementals with Planar Binding/Ally.

Edit: To actually answer your question, instead of just optimizing:
Pretty much any domain that one picks for high level spells is worse now, with the exception of domains that grant rebuking. On the other hand, domains with low level utility spells are better.
Animal and Protection lose a lot from this.
Destruction, Magic, Travel and Trickery both gain and lose from this, losing good high level spells but getting extra castings of low level spells.
And most domains that were bad before are still bad.
X-Codes
10-25-06, 12:45 AM It seems to me that any domain with Rebuking, allowing Rebuking Mastery, could be very good. A little turn optimization could get you some very good servants. It should be trivial to get control a creature with hd equal to your own. Who wouldn't want a pet Pyrohydra at level 5?
Well, Rebuking Mastery requires level 6 at least. Finding a 10-headed pyrohydra at level 6 probably won't happen, either (they're CR 11, although the CR 9 8-headed one is less unlikely).

Edit: To actually answer your question, instead of just optimizing:
Pretty much any domain that one picks for high level spells is worse now, with the exception of domains that grant rebuking. On the other hand, domains with low level utility spells are better.
Animal and Protection lose a lot from this.
Destruction, Magic, Travel and Trickery both gain and lose from this, losing good high level spells but getting extra castings of low level spells.
And most domains that were bad before are still bad.
Ok. As far as domains go, however, I'm not very good at optimization. Past the Planning, Undeath, Time, Spell, and Animal domains, people really don't talk at all about domains in the first place. So which ones are bad before, and which ones are bad after this change?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
X-Codes 10-22-06, 05:16 AM	There are sub-optimal choices for every class in the game. Theres no getting around that. So I've been going over the domains trying to come up with ways to get some of them some more use. Instead of the Cleric, I'm going to use an altered Mystic class. The final result is between the two, but a little closer to the Mystic. The following changes are going to be made: 1) Mystics gain two domains instead of one. They still don't get Turn Undead. Instead, Mystics with the Sun domain get Turn Undead and Mystics with the Undeath domain get Rebuke Undead. 2) Mystics don't learn their domain spells based on their spellcasting progression, but based on their Mystic class levels. At 1st, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th they gain one bonus spell known from one of their domains, up to the highest level of spells they can cast. Some PrC's will continue this progression. 3) Two feats will be added to the game: Turning Mastery and Rebuking Mastery. Turning Mastery [Divine] Req.: Cha 15+, ability to turn or destroy creatures with a base turning level of 6. Benefit: Pick one specific ability to turn or destroy creatures that you have, such as the Air domain's ability to turn or destroy earth creatures. When you use this ability, you can spend an extra turn attempt to destroy all creatures you successfully turned. You gain a +4 bonus on turning damage rolls with the selected ability. Special: Can be taken multiple times. Each time it apply to a different ability to turn or destroy creatures. Rebuking Mastery [Divine] Req.: Cha 15+, ability to rebuke or command creatures with a base rebuking level of 6. Benefit: Pick one specific ability to rebuke or command creatures that you have, such as the Air domain's ability to rebuke or command air creatures. When you use this ability, you can spend an extra turn attempt to command all creatures you normally rebuke, so long as you do not exceed your maximum HD worth of creatures commanded. You can control 4 more HD worth of creatures using the selected ability. Special: Can be taken multiple times. Each time it apply to a different ability to turn or destroy creatures. Base turning or rebuking level basically means your Mystic level, although some PrC's will continue progressing domain abilities. 4) Mystics don't have to follow a deity, but they can't pick diametrically opposed domains (Good and Evil, Law and Chaos, Sun and Undeath, Air and Earth, Fire and Water). They also still have to meet the alignment requirements for the aligned domains. 5) Domains are going to be taken from the PHB and Spell Compendium, except the Planar Domains. They pretty well suck, anyway. So, following these rules, which domains simply suck?
X-Codes 10-23-06, 02:18 AM	:bump:
PhoenixInferno 10-23-06, 02:29 AM	I don't think this changes the equation on whether a domain is "bad" or "good". If a domain is bad, its spells are probably on the Cleric/Mystic spell list already and getting more of them doesn't help, and/or its granted power isn't useful.
X-Codes 10-23-06, 02:47 AM	I don't think this changes the equation on whether a domain is "bad" or "good". If a domain is bad, its spells are probably on the Cleric/Mystic spell list already and getting more of them doesn't help, and/or its granted power isn't useful. I know, which is why I'm posting this here. Which of these domains qualify? I know the Animal domain gets killed under these rules, since the only worthwile Animal domain spells are late-level ones which they may not get (if they PrC out at least). The Water Domain also has a number of very niche spells early, and the late-level ones, while good, are again potentially lost with the PrC levels. Thats why I'm looking to tweak them. For example, I'm thinking I'd change the Animal domain ability to make the Mystic use the Summon Nature's Ally spells instead of the Summon Monster spells. I'd probably also change the Water domain's first-level spell to Ice Dagger or Wings of the Sea or something of the like. I'm just trying to find the obviously subpar domain choices and bring them up a little so that not all of my divine spellcasters have the Spell and Planning domains.
fnord 10-23-06, 04:33 AM	It seems to me that any domain with Rebuking, allowing Rebuking Mastery, could be very good. A little turn optimization could get you some very good servants. It should be trivial to get control a creature with hd equal to your own. Who wouldn't want a pet Pyrohydra at level 5? If you have a good way to FIND decent creatures, this could be very useful. The Elemental Domains lend themselves to this, since you can call up elementals with Planar Binding/Ally. Edit: To actually answer your question, instead of just optimizing: Pretty much any domain that one picks for high level spells is worse now, with the exception of domains that grant rebuking. On the other hand, domains with low level utility spells are better. Animal and Protection lose a lot from this. Destruction, Magic, Travel and Trickery both gain and lose from this, losing good high level spells but getting extra castings of low level spells. And most domains that were bad before are still bad.
X-Codes 10-25-06, 12:45 AM	It seems to me that any domain with Rebuking, allowing Rebuking Mastery, could be very good. A little turn optimization could get you some very good servants. It should be trivial to get control a creature with hd equal to your own. Who wouldn't want a pet Pyrohydra at level 5? Well, Rebuking Mastery requires level 6 at least. Finding a 10-headed pyrohydra at level 6 probably won't happen, either (they're CR 11, although the CR 9 8-headed one is less unlikely). Edit: To actually answer your question, instead of just optimizing: Pretty much any domain that one picks for high level spells is worse now, with the exception of domains that grant rebuking. On the other hand, domains with low level utility spells are better. Animal and Protection lose a lot from this. Destruction, Magic, Travel and Trickery both gain and lose from this, losing good high level spells but getting extra castings of low level spells. And most domains that were bad before are still bad. Ok. As far as domains go, however, I'm not very good at optimization. Past the Planning, Undeath, Time, Spell, and Animal domains, people really don't talk at all about domains in the first place. So which ones are bad before, and which ones are bad after this change?