Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Penguin Master 02-17-04, 01:17 PM	This character is horribly min/maxed, in fact there's a gargantuan XP penalty on it right now, (3.0-30%, 3.5-60%). She's an NPC I am making for FR. The primary focus of this character is TWF, though with some secondary spellcasting. Human Rgr 1/Rog 1/Ftr 11/ Wiz 6/Clr of Selune 1 Domains: Protection, Moon Str 24 Dex 22 Con 12 Int 24 Wis 14 Cha 10 Fort 20 Ref 18 Will 17 AC 21 HP 146 Init 10 Melee +5 sonic Kukri 26/21/16 +5 defending Kukri 26/21/16 Skills Balance +10 Climb +7 Handle Animal +14 Hide +20 Knowledge (planes) +21 (going for Agent Retriever) Listen +27 Move Silently +22 Spelcraft +31 Spot +27 Use Rope +28 Survival +25 Feats Two-Weapon Fighting Ambidexterity Track Off-hand parry improved disarm silent spell improved trip weapon focus (kukri) Run Improved Initiative Expertise Improved TWF Imp crit (kukri scribe scroll Alertness dodge weapon specia (kukri quick draw still spell I would like to keep the spellcasting aspect particulary the arcane side though the cleric can go and still keeping the focus on TWF, from what I can see, I'll need more attack. THe sources available UE, MoF, FRCS, MoW, SS, PHB, DMG, MM, Silver Marches, BoED, SaF. Every aspect is available to be changed.
Funny Slaughter 02-17-04, 01:41 PM	is this a 3.0 character you want to update to 3.5? i would suggest you ditch half of the feats and go for a hight-casterlevel gish-build gs Funny
mean_liar 02-17-04, 01:43 PM	Why would you construct a build like this? How can you minmax something when there's no real direction on where to draw the line between "effective" and "really bad idea"? Need more data!
PhaedrusXY 02-17-04, 01:56 PM	Take one of the bladesinger builds from the Gish thread and use it. This character seems like a bladesinger in feel. Drop the ranger and rogue level. If you want Sneak Attack dice, take levels of Guild Thief.
Penguin Master 02-17-04, 01:57 PM	This was an older character of mine that I would like to update to 3.5. This was a really heavy roleplaying campaign where a few specific spells were useful. And what other data do you need? Do you want me to put the details of this character's nosehair? hight-casterlevel You mean high caster-level. Watch that left pointer finger, it seems to like to jump up. I was thinking of taking Eldritch knight or spellsword. A few dice of Sneak attack would be helpful for hit and run.
Snow Savant 02-17-04, 02:08 PM	Penguin Master, I realize you are allowing pretty much a total overhaul of this character. But please state which aspects of the build are absolutely off-limits in regards to modification. For example, do you have to keep the Wizard6/Cleric1 (Moon/Protection) aspect? What kind of spells does he like to cast and what were his typical battle tactics. The Fighter/Ranger/Rogue levels redistribution should be easy, even if you insist on the rather odd TWF angle. It's the spellcasting (both divine and arcane) that will prove to be the challenge in making a cohesive and effective revised character. Also, give us a 2-3 sentence blurb on the flavour and modus operandi of this character. I don't want to see his mechanical change disrupt his raison d'etre. All told, I think we can fix this guy. XO, Snow :cloud9:
HoshiAdam 02-17-04, 02:24 PM	If you had access to complete warrior, you could do Fighter7/Wizard3/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge2/Invisible Blade5(I think, would need to check feat and skill compatability). But, without that I would recommend taking the following: Fighter6/Rogue4/Wizard3/Cleric3/Mystic Theurge4 1: Rogue 1: Two Weapon Fighting, Cosmopolitan: Survival 2: Fighter 1: Combat Expertise 3: Cleric 1: Track 4: Wizard 1: (scribe scroll free) 5: Cleric 2: 6: Wizard 2: Weapon Focus: Kukri 7: Rogue 2 8: Fighter 2:Improved Initiative 9: Rogue 3:Improved TWF 10:Cleric 3 11:Wizard 3 12:Rogue 4: Improved Critical: Kukri 13:Fighter 3 14:Mystic Theurge 1 15:Mystic Theurge 2: Still Spell 16:Fighter 4: Greater TWF 17:Mystic Theurge 3 18:Mystic Theurge 4: Silent Spell 19:Fighter 5 20:Fighter 6: Fighter feat of Choice, possibly Weapon Spec. With this build you could keep the equipment the same and it might have the same feel. If changing to Kossuth is possible, you might look at the Black Flame Zealot. I don't know FR dieties, so I don't know if the character was good or evil to start.
LordShade 02-17-04, 02:26 PM	Yeah Penguin, I am also having trouble understanding exactly what the concept is. You're a regular around here, you know how to build a fighter/mage - what exactly do you want us to help you with?
Penguin Master 02-17-04, 04:00 PM	I figured TWF to get a few more attacks in a round, and combined with sneak attack and invisibility to get more sneak attacks in a round. The primary tactics of this character would be to spy on the target using divinations to learn about their defenses from a safe distance while hiding. Then to strike while (greater) invisible at the weakest (or the one with the least protections). Then to back off and repeat, using attrition to wear down tougher opponents and dispel against spellcasting opponents. Though in the actual gameplay, this character was usually the guide through the forests or the one who tracked down the enemies while the rest of the group handled the targets while this character made hit and run attacks and cut off their retreat. It was usually against significantly lesser creatures so the lacking attack typically wasn't a factor. And when it was, I used buffing spells to assist the wizard. Usually this was using dispel on their magic items so the wizard didn't have to. However, I would like this character capable of handling tougher challenges. Hope this makes things a little clearer.
Snow Savant 02-17-04, 04:48 PM	Hm. Interesting. Although I still don't see the Cleric-1 angle with the Moon/Protection Domains. Let's try to see if we can get you a Holy Stealthy Tracker type with both Arcane & Divine supplemental spellcasting, a high BAB, and Sneak-Attack capability with dual Kukris. Rogue3 / Ranger3 / Fighter2 / Wizard4 / SpellSword3 / GuildThief4 / Templar1 Okay .... BAB +16, +4d6 SA, 5 Bonus Fighter Feats for TWF (from Ftr, SS, & GT), Weapon Specialization, 3rd Level Wizard Spells, 1st Level Divine Spells (like your Cleric), Evasion & Mettle, Uncanny Dodge, great saves. ...this character was usually the guide through the forests or the one who tracked down the enemies while the rest of the group handled the targets while this character made hit and run attacks and cut off their retreat. This build will allow you to take the Cosmopolitan: Survival feat, and become an expert Tracker. 10 of your 20 levels gives you stealth skills. Use magic spells and items to boost them even higher. Instead of that weak Cleric level, I substituted it with Templar. giving you a divine angle and tie-in to your respective deity. This build is extremely easy & customizable to interlace levels, to ensure you get the feats and class abilities in the order you desire. Hope this helps. Holler if you need tweakage or details. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Penguin Master 02-17-04, 05:09 PM	...... Wow! .......... Kudos. That definately is a huge step up. And no XP penalty! I think either human, sun elf, or strongheart halfling would be best for this. as for feats I think the dodge series would be best, prehaps power attack considering most of the targets will be denied dex and I'll have a +2 to attack (invisibility). It'll take me a while to get this char made, some of the books i'll need are lent out.
Snow Savant 02-17-04, 05:15 PM	Well, you can't Power Attack with Kukris. Although you can get 7 attacks in this build. 8, if you can squeeze in Expert Tactician. I would go Human for the extra feat. Any TWF build is feat-hungry, and you need the slots. Load up on neato stealthy/rogue magical items ... sneak around and kill the bad guys! All your spells would be best as buffs, Invisibility, etc. Your 2 Guild Thief bonus feats should be Weapon Finesse & Weapon Focus. I would slot down your STR in the build, and boost DEX, for obvious reason. :D If Weapon Finesse does not appeal to you, swap a level of GT for SS. Now you can channel 3/days per day a spell like Lesser Sonic Orb (5d8 damage) into one of your Kukris. I prefer the GT level for this skills and feat. Glad you like! :) Snow!
Penguin Master 02-17-04, 05:20 PM	Well, you can't Power Attack with Kukris. I hate small print. (but all the text in that book is the same size, penguin) Shut up, brain. Expert Tactician sounds familiar, but I can't place it. Where is it?
Snow Savant 02-17-04, 05:24 PM	Song&Silence. The outdated version is in the S&F book - don't use that one!
mean_liar 02-17-04, 05:54 PM	Originally posted by Snow Savant Let's try to see if we can get you a Holy Stealthy Tracker type with both Arcane & Divine supplemental spellcasting, a high BAB, and Sneak-Attack capability with dual Kukris. Its statements like these, followed by full builds with good abilities, that will get you beatified after your death, Snow. Unless you envision yourself being made into small plastic holy action figures by Italians you should cut this kind of posting down a little bit.
PhaedrusXY 02-17-04, 05:54 PM	I have a Palladin/Ranger/DivineSeeker build that might fit this concept. I'll post it when I get home. I like the idea of a sneaky holy warrior. Edit: Here's that build Rang9/Pal4/Templar2/Divine Seeker5 (of Meilikki? :P ) BAB +18 Saves: Fort +13, Ref +11, Will +7 Use TWF with Divine Might. You'll have a few sneak attack dice, decent skills, evasion, and mettle. Divine Seeker is in the FRCS book and Templar is in DotF. Use a scimitar and get the Imp. Crit feat. With Bless Weapon, you'll be critting on 15-20 against evil opponents without needing to confirm it. Spells from 3 lists, all based on Wisdom. 1 Rng1 Power Attack (human), Weapon Focus: Deity's Favored Weapon (Scimitar?) 2 Rng2 TWF (bonus) 3 Rng3 Shield Expert, Endurance (bonus) 4 Pal1 5 Pal2 6 Pal3 Improved Shield Bash 7 Pal4 8 Templ1 Wpn Spec: Deity's Fav Wpn, Mettle 9 Templ2 Smite, Divine Might, Templ. Spells 10 Rng4 12 Rng6 ITW (bonus), Extra Turning 15 Rng9 Divine Shield 16 DivS1 18 DivS3 GTWF 20 DivS5 I had planned it for a human, but you could adjust the ratio of Palladin to Ranger to avoid an XP penalty. Maybe Rng6/Pally7.
Penguin Master 02-17-04, 06:52 PM	Unless you envision yourself being made into small plastic holy action figures by Italians you should cut this kind of posting down a little bit. Or possibly having an extremist group of D&D fanatics organizing a cult idolizing you, Snow.
balefire42 02-17-04, 09:58 PM	Here's another route, more focused on spellcasting. Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Nentyar Hunter 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Eldritch Knight 8 +16 BAB Wizard caster level 14 Nentyar hunter caster level 5 edit - should be legal now. Although, the build doesn't have much to do with the original build except that it has arcane and divine spellcasting, and a level of ranger. :/
helicopter 02-17-04, 10:02 PM	Not legal, Balefire. Ranger does not meet the requirements for Spellsword. Although it could with the addition of 1 feat. A Fighter level fixes that problem though