Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jimbo19 01-26-05, 10:52 AM	Ok here is the deal. City of the spider queen. My lvl 12 human wizard just got turned into a free will vampire. I know it is bogus but the DM is being an azz about it. I guess I angered him with a well timed break enchantment. anyway so now I am a vampire, what to do? The cleric in the party is a radiant servant. uggh. My ecl is +8. Ya I have some awesome AC and stats, but to be honest I would rather be human. We looked in the rules and cant find a way to cure this. I was thinking a true ress and a wish. Dm thinks a true ress and remove curse. I am thinking of going solo. We had to run from that vampire fight before we got to the loth fane thing. So I know there is a master vampire and company still there. The is an inverted tower in sith morcaine that has a 17 wizard and his cohorts, I was thinking of going back there and seeing if I could take him. Or I could come to accomadation with my party, if possible, and just get nothing for xp, for a long time. In essense stay a 12 wiz forever, and watch my party climb to lvl 15 or 16 while I crawl towards 13. Any advice?
fnord 01-26-05, 11:48 AM	By RAW, True Resurrection would restore you to life without needing any additional spells. Even Resurrection would work if you don't mind losing a level. If you want to remain an effective caster, don't even think about keeping that LA +8
TerrickTerran 01-26-05, 11:57 AM	Yeah, Vampires are great...for enemies. But get a ressurection or true ressurection ASAP.
Ipsissimus 01-26-05, 12:07 PM	Even though you crawl to lvl 13, as a wizard you can basically acquire every single arcane spell and add it to your book. With your cleric of pelor, if you were adventuring buddies from the beginning they should be sympathetic enough to not try and blast you out of existance...after all you are a free range chicken, I mean free willed vampire. You don't have to be evil and being in the underdark you'll hardly ever need to worry about sunlight. I'd say if you DM doesn't let you change back, go with being a vampire. If anything it'll throw a huge monkey wrench in his encounters since you can do all these cool new things. I was so hoping I would have attracted lycanthrophy but I missed it by 2 levels as my paladin and was immune to it unfortunately. There's no way any of my DM's would ever grant vampirism and let us keep our character. I say, try it out.
chocobochicken 01-26-05, 12:37 PM	When did the Vampire template jump to a level adjustment of +8? I've been using Savage Species, which lists it at +5.
Jimbo19 01-26-05, 12:46 PM	Its in the monster manual as +8. so a true ressuraction is all I need? Can probably get that, will cost me a bunch of coin. They have awesome abilities. but they can be killed very easily under the right circumstances, and it is hard to move around carrying your dirt etc.
rilem 01-26-05, 01:02 PM	In 3.5 SRD it's +8 LA. Resurrection will work by itself; you just have to be destroyed first. Now, if an evil vampire trusts his party enough, it might go along with it — if it's Lawful Evil, maybe. What was your alignment to begin with? What are the rest of your stats, feats, etc.?
Fwib 01-26-05, 01:03 PM	+8 is totally ludicrous. If True Res. is too expensive for you, consider True Reinc. (non-core, I forget which WotC book its from) which is much cheaper and gives you a good chance to end up with even better stuff - although you'll need to check how your DM would handle reincarnation, since the rules are fuzzy. [edit] I note that the SRD lists undead as one of the creature types reinc. doesn't work on :(
Jimbo19 01-26-05, 03:00 PM	well rilem. I have a 12 human wiz. Stats are awesome really, I was shocked when I finished putting the vampire stuff on him. Because I made myself Gloves of dex+6 and HB of int +6. My base stats now: Str 17 +6 due to vamp Dex 26 +4 from vamp and +6 gloves con 0 wis 14 Int 28 20 base +2 vamp, +6 Hb Chr 19 +4 vamp Feats are decent generalist wiz feats. Spell Penet and Greater spell Pen Spellcasting prodigy-old version, PBS, Imp initiative, Quicken, Sudden Maximize craft wondorous. Plus all the free feats the vamp gave me. I know PBS is a wasted feat, but if I live long enough I may be able to retrain that to something else. Meaning if I make it to a major city and plop down 100k gold and some time, I can edit it. If I stay vamp, which would put me way over the party average of 12/13, they will pass me by. But then again, tonight I am resolving a solo thing with the DM, if I win I could be lvl 13, if I lose I am just dead. Or a lvl 17 wizzies playtoy. I sure hope my AMF plan works. If it does I will get some decent gear perhaps. But knowing my DM, who is the killer monster poster child, thats probably impossible.
Jimbo19 01-26-05, 03:01 PM	I agree +8 is insane. +5 I could see, not +8
Eagle Prince 01-26-05, 04:54 PM	I want my cleric to get turned into a vampire. +5 LA is too low, vampires are tougher than that. Although as a PC you'd kind of need to blow a feat in Improved Turn Resistance at the very least... but getting turned by a Sun domain is a problem for any kind of undead (except death knight, yeah). But if you got the gold and feats, Libris Mortis has enough stuff to make you nearly immune to turning.
Jimbo19 01-26-05, 05:14 PM	well being a vampire. the monster manual doesnt say how often you have to feed, nor wether you can carry some grave dirt with you, maybe in a sleeping bag? Vamps are normal +4 to turning, but I may have to go look at this libris mortis.
Eagle Prince 01-26-05, 05:47 PM	You're supposed to feed on spiritual energy every day (via energy drain) and feed on blood every three days or so. You can go longer than that, especially with a good Will save, but thats about how long it takes before you really start to feel the urge. You don't need to pack around earth, just a coffin. You don't even have to lug that around, but it makes it harder to use your rejuvenation ability... but you could use something like a contingent teleport to get back to it instead of packing it around with you. Vampires got a +4 turn restistance, but a +8 level adjustment. So you'd be turned as an undead 4 HD lower than your ECL. Improved Turn Reistance gives you another stackable +4, and there is some other feats and magic items you can use to boost it up further.
gandhithebfg 01-26-05, 06:05 PM	vampires don't need to breathe...would the rejuvenation work if they slept in a bag of holding semi-filled with grave dirt? or better yet, put a coffin in a bag of holding. no problem ;)
Agitator1 01-26-05, 06:14 PM	Craft a clock with a constant Night’s Mantle spell. That will protect you from sunlight and daylight spells.
Ivarrius 01-26-05, 06:16 PM	I would play up the Vampire thing. It would be a ton of fun, and you will have so many tricks up your sleeve. Look into Libris Mortis and try playing around with the idea before you get a resurresction spell cast. Your DM might have been upset when you were just a wizard, but a Vampire with a caster level of 12 is a dangerous thing! One more level and you can cast 7th level spells, and with your Int that high, you would have some killer saves. bring the coffin with you, get a wand of (whatever that spell is called that allows you to shrink items and enlarge them again, might be two spells) and jam it into a bag of holding. If that is against the rules, there will definitely be something like that able to be done. Mordenkainens Mansion is a good one, 24 hour mansion made to your specifications, with unseen servants and everything. You can specify the grave dirt if you want, and sleep there for as long as you need, and still have room for party members. Play it up, have fun with it, that is a helluva nice opportunity.
Sang-Drax 01-26-05, 07:39 PM	The LA +5 is for vampire spawns, I think.
PhaedrusXY 01-26-05, 08:49 PM	I don't think I'd be in any hurry to get rid of it, either. Eventually you'll probably get destroyed by some cleric, but until then you have a much more powerful character than what you really should have. And when you finally do get popped, your party can just Ressurect you. You'll have the same XP as when you were a vampire, but no LA. So you'll probably shoot up several levels at once, even with the level loss for coming back from the dead.
Eagle Prince 01-26-05, 10:16 PM	Good point. You need ressurection to get back to normal. Might as well just play vampire, and if you get popped, well you were planning on doing it anyway so who cares.
ck2001wendt 01-26-05, 10:25 PM	Uhhh...if he hits 0 HP as a Vampire he's "dead" dead. No Rezzing...unless True Rez also works on the undead...
AviLazar 01-27-05, 12:58 AM	Find a psion, have him make you a psychoactive skin of darkness. Never worry about light again. Other then that, discuss with the DM the applicable way of removing this curse and getting it done. If you can get true res or res casted on you, any other spell of lower level (and being a divine spell) should not be hard to come by. I am sure your allies will not destroy you - there are afterall good undead that do not get turned by the good guys just because they are undead (unless the cleric is mentally insane).
Ivarrius 01-27-05, 01:14 AM	I am sure your allies will not destroy you - there are afterall good undead that do not get turned by the good guys just because they are undead (unless the cleric is mentally insane). Or a zealot.
AviLazar 01-27-05, 01:19 AM	Uhhh...if he hits 0 HP as a Vampire he's "dead" dead. No Rezzing...unless True Rez also works on the undead... According the MM I, vampires who hit 0 hps turn to mist and head back to their coffin. If they cannot get there within 2 hours then they are destroyed.
catharz 01-27-05, 01:46 AM	Question: If your ECL changes, does your XP total change to match? If so, you're up a few K of xp. If it doesn't, then we just figured out an infinite artificer craft points loop.
ck2001wendt 01-27-05, 02:29 AM	According the MM I, vampires who hit 0 hps turn to mist and head back to their coffin. If they cannot get there within 2 hours then they are destroyed. Depends on the method. You get cut down by magic weapons, sure (assuming you keep your coffin with you). You get vaporized by a Cleric (or commanded), or you go out in natural sunlight...
Endarire 01-27-05, 03:04 AM	Judging from my experience, L13 requires 78,000 total experience. If you had 77,529 and became a LA +8 vampire, you'd be at 77,529/190,000. -EE
Jimbo19 01-27-05, 11:47 AM	How does the xp work? We assumed that I would earn xp as a lvl 20 char now. So I have 74k xp and lvl 12 wiz. When i earn more I will earn hundreds while my party members are earning thousands. If I get true ressed, I would still have the same total xp. I mean the ecl doesnt give you two seperate totals to keep track of, allowing me to get true ressed and catch up to my party does it? No dont think so.
Arcanis the wacher 01-27-05, 12:49 PM	true resurrection can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroed. that is on page 296 of the PHB in the 3rd pargarth of the spells decreption.
PhaedrusXY 01-27-05, 12:59 PM	How does the xp work? We assumed that I would earn xp as a lvl 20 char now. So I have 74k xp and lvl 12 wiz. When i earn more I will earn hundreds while my party members are earning thousands. If I get true ressed, I would still have the same total xp. I mean the ecl doesnt give you two seperate totals to keep track of, allowing me to get true ressed and catch up to my party does it? No dont think so.Right, you'd earn less XP per encounter than them. I'd forgotten about that. But lets look at what happens if you had gained enough XP to be level 17, for example, and then got destroyed. When your friends had you True Rez'd, you'd come back as a human with enough XP to be 17th level. Your LA would be gone, so you'd immediately gain 5 levels.
Jimbo19 01-27-05, 05:19 PM	phaedrus your confusing me. My total xp while a vampire is the same wether I am a vamp or not.
PhaedrusXY 01-27-05, 05:34 PM	phaedrus your confusing me. My total xp while a vampire is the same wether I am a vamp or not.Ugh... I know. Ok, let me break it down. Vampire version: 12 character levels +8 Level Adjustment = ECL 20 So you'll gain XP as a 20th level character, but starting out you'll only have the XP of a 12th level character. This means that for the equivalent of 8 levels, you'll get XP but not gain any levels. Let's say you start out with 70,000 XP. You adventure as a vampire for a while, and gain another 70,000 XP. You now have 140,000 XP, but still haven't gained any levels. You're still a 12th level wizard with an ECL of 20. Then lets say you get destroyed, and your friends True Rez you. You come back as a human with 140,000 XP. You're level adjustment is gone. 140,000 XP is enough to make you 17th level. So when you're ressurected, you actually gain five levels of wizard (or whatever). The rule about not being able to gain enough XP to go up more than 1 level per session does not apply, because you already had all that XP. You didn't gain any, you just lost your LA.
sma 01-27-05, 06:24 PM	The trick would be losing a level, and seeing that you´re undead that would be quite a trick, them being immune to level drain and all. But there´s nothing a little polymorph or even simply dying (again) won´t help with... After getting that level adjustment you´re effectively a 20th level character. Now what happens when you lose a level, is that you´re XP total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level. In this case 19. Now you´ll only have to get resurrected and shazam!: instant level up. A bit cheesy, but it should make for five minutes of fun and help in arguing for a more balanced solution to your LA problems.
Eyeless Blond 01-27-05, 06:31 PM	After getting that level adjustment you´re effectively a 20th level character. Now what happens when you lose a level, is that you´re XP total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level. In this case 19. Now you´ll only have to get resurrected and shazam!: instant level up. Er, no. When you're rezzed, you lose your vampire template, and thus your vampire LA, making you a 12th level wizard again. Now you lose a level, becoming an 11th level wizard with the XP to match.
Bonzai 01-27-05, 06:39 PM	Heh, if it was me I'd turn the tables on the DM. Drain the rest of the party members in their sleep and make them your first spawn in your bid to conquer the underdark. :D Hey, if he's gonna make you a vampire, be a vampire!
sma 01-27-05, 07:39 PM	Er, no. When you're rezzed, you lose your vampire template, and thus your vampire LA, making you a 12th level wizard again. Now you lose a level, becoming an 11th level wizard with the XP to match. Actually, it does work. I´ll clarify: Wizard 12 + Vampire LA of 8 is a level 20 character, never mind that he is slightly lacking in XP right now. What he does now, is search himself any of the the level draining creatures out there, memorizes two polymorphs, a teleport, transforms into a human and starts insulting the bugger until he gets hit with a level drain resulting in a negative level. Teleport away, wait for nearly 24 hours, poly into something with a really low constitution score and fails his Fort save. This results in a LEVEL LOSS A character who loses a level instantly loses one Hit Die. The character’s base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and special class abilities are now reduced to the new, lower level. Likewise, the character loses any ability score gain, skill ranks, and any feat associated with the level (if applicable). If the exact ability score or skill ranks increased from a level now lost is unknown (or the player has forgotten), lose 1 point from the highest ability score or ranks from the highest-ranked skills. If a familiar or companion creature has abilities tied to a character who has lost a level, the creature’s abilities are adjusted to fit the character’s new level. The victim’s experience point total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level. Now our 20th level Vampirewizard gets bumped down to 19th level, and his XP total is set to exactly 180500 XP. Then he gets himself a nice cup of tea, while his buddy the cleric casts Resurrection on him, resulting in a level 18 character, with at least 10 levels of wizard in there. Rinse and repeat, for an illustration of why level loss and afflicted LA work even less, than each separate part of the equation. What I´m not sure about is if a simple Ressurection wouldn´t result in basically the same, savinf you the hassle of seeking another vampire, but at first glance it should work. Greetings, Sma
PhaedrusXY 01-27-05, 07:58 PM	Sma, any DM that interpreted things that way needs to be... yes, you know it... shot in the face with a hammer. That is so absurd I'm surprized you had the gall to post it. That's worse that the Hulking Hurler using a Thought Bottle to make Epic balls of Iridium for free.
Ricter 01-27-05, 09:04 PM	Fight fire with fire. Be an azz back. Whenever the dm introduces an obviously important quest npc, kill it, or make it your slave. Each night, wander around town turning the entire peasantry and town watch into thralls. Once you have a decent amount of undead following you, have them slaughter the rest of the inhabitants. Make sure to turn the rest of your party into vampires as well, in order to speed this process. Or, simply refuse to play.
JosephKell 01-27-05, 09:42 PM	Isn't this thread supposed to be in What's a Player to Do (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48)? But Sunbathing is always an option for a Vampire.
sma 01-27-05, 09:52 PM	Sma, any DM that interpreted things that way needs to be... yes, you know it... shot in the face with a hammer. That is so absurd I'm surprized you had the gall to post it. That's worse that the Hulking Hurler using a Thought Bottle to make Epic balls of Iridium for free. There is less than little interpretation going on here, and since when does it take gall to post real, actual rules, concerning the situation at hand ? Would it be better to let Jimbo19 and his DM figure out this little gem, while on the table with a game going on ? Or is it better too be aware of the way the rules are laid out, while there´s enough time to come to a balanced solution, making all of the involved happy ? You might also want to reread my posts, concerning my opinion about these rules, but I´ll be happy to repost them, to save you the trouble of scrolling up. LA stinks. Level Loss is dumb in more than one way. Afflicted LA combined with Level Loss form an unholy union of stupid But this is neither the time or the place to discuss these rules, so the hammer can stay right where it is, no one gets hurt, and Jimbo19 and his GM can figure out a wayout of this dilemma, that does not involve setting the character in stone for the rest of the campaign. Sma
PhaedrusXY 01-27-05, 10:34 PM	Ok, I missed the sarcasm in your post, as obviously you did in mine. Shake hands and forget it? :P
Ivarrius 01-27-05, 10:36 PM	Heh, if it was me I'd turn the tables on the DM. Drain the rest of the party members in their sleep and make them your first spawn in your bid to conquer the underdark. :D Hey, if he's gonna make you a vampire, be a vampire! That sounds fun!!! The dm thinks the ball is now in hsi court, and your options have become limited. You now have the option to do many more things than a regular character would do. Use them to your advantage! If you came up against, or heard rumors of, a vampire in the game you were playing in, what would you be afraid of? Use that same fear backwards on your DM. No rules are being broken, he just gave you a chunk of lead to work with, which you turned into gold very quickly.
sma 01-28-05, 07:30 AM	Ok, I missed the sarcasm in your post, as obviously you did in mine. Shake hands and forget it? :P Nah, let´s start a bloody flamewar in someone else´s thread. [invisible ink]But we´ll have to duck out in time, and let someone else take the heat[/invisible ink]. Now choose your weapon. ;) Greetings, Sma
Jeremymc 01-28-05, 08:11 AM	The only problem, with the earlier theory about ending up level 19 is that the vampire wizard isn't ACTUALLY level 20, but simply acts as if he were. So the wording from level drain would still put him down at 11th level. Though quite frankly, any DM with a brain would simply take the total experience of the character, disregard LA, calculate his resurrected level based on that, and then subtract the one from resurrection.
sma 01-28-05, 09:40 AM	The only problem, with the earlier theory about ending up level 19 is that the vampire wizard isn't ACTUALLY level 20, but simply acts as if he were. So the wording from level drain would still put him down at 11th level. While, as I´ve mentioned, I agree that these rules are teh crap(tm), a level 12 wizard with the vampire template actually is level 20, as far as the rules on level loss are concerned, just as an Aasimar with 10 levels of fighter is supposed to be level 11 character. There simply is no instance where you are a level 12 and a level 20 character at the same time. You´ll have to pick one, and the writ chose to make you level twenty. No pretend to be level 20 for getting XP per encounter, and not being level 20 for something else. When a level 20 character loses one level he becomes a level 19 character with a clearly defined amount of XP. Which would actually not be the problem, if it were not for the fact that you can easily lose the vampire template and it´s eight levels of empty, sacking an extraordinary amount of XP in the process. The rules are pretty clear on this issue, and no amount of handwaving will change that. Back on topic, Jimbo19 how did your solo adventuring work out ? Found a solution to your troubles ? Greetings, Sma
malrick 01-28-05, 10:41 AM	there is a diffence between character optimization and cheating. gaining a template requires you buy it off with exp. starting with one cost you lvs getting one in game, whether you wanted it or not, will cost you lvs. the make your dm pay option sounds like fun, but consider this if you want a true res., how many npcs do you know in the campain that can cast it, will making the dm angery help you find one? the likely options are stay a 12lv vamp a long time, play a vamp til new options open up, or take a lv hit now. my best advise is to ignore sma's advise though, favorite quote "it's like he channels crazy dead people"
AviLazar 01-28-05, 10:53 AM	Or a zealot. Oh my bad, when I said insane i thought it was understood to include zealot ;)
AviLazar 01-28-05, 10:54 AM	Depends on the method. You get cut down by magic weapons, sure (assuming you keep your coffin with you). You get vaporized by a Cleric (or commanded), or you go out in natural sunlight... According to the MMI you are immune to damage while in mist form - not sure if this applies to turning as i dont have the books with me.
Jimbo19 01-28-05, 11:05 AM	well on the level thing. The way our group is playing it- for instance we have 2 drow in the party I think its ECL +2. So they earn xp each session as if they are 2 levels higher than their class level. Which means I will earn xp as a level 20, and hence get 300 when they get about 3000 or so. When I get enough to level I would go up to 13 wizard. the ecl is not an equivalent xp its equiv deduction from what xp I get to add to my total. So the whole tryiing to cheese more xp will never fly. Now the solo thing turned into an almost full blown party excursion. So I will have to split xp agin. The plus side is that the DM got a taste of what it will be like, and he is having second thoughts. We walked into a evil temple, with vampire wiz my level, cleric my level, duegar barb, ghost, and a bodyguard. I dominated the guards outside and we just wealked right in. heh. Anyway the DM was none to happy when he found out that his unholy place that gave a 4 level bonus to his casters, actually boosted me as well. This turned into a 32d6 point disintegrate on his high level dueragar barbarian. Since he was hit already he turned to ash. We won the fight quite handily, and alll I had to do was be further than 60' from our cleric when he turned the ghost. No problemo. On the way there we were being followed by bats, I used children of the night to dominate 3 swarms of bats, and basicaly turned off the lights of anyone using them to watch me. anyway When the head vampire went gaseous early, and the wiz vampire was forced gaseous they retreated down a tube under the altar. I had been cursed by the vampire cleric. the DM says I can be cursed. Anyway he was not real happy having to avoid me while I tore his BBEGs apart. I laughed at the ghost, high level ghosts are scary for humans, not me. I could see the DM's head spinning looking at his spell lists from his mod, he had nothing but that curse for me, his negative energy and big scary slay living spell just tickled me. So I go gaseous and follow the two vamps. The rogue goes ethereal and follows me. I get there and the cleric vamp is not hurt much, The DM wanted her to escape. She start whipping me and trying to cast spells on me, while I can roll very so I can not act due to the curse. 50% chance you do nothing in a round. So she whips me with this snake head whip. Whooie doo, he knows that doing 4 points of damage to me a round will not help him once i rolll well enough to take a single action. I have prot from energy fire up, and I will use a fireball in this tight area, etc. So the rogue comes in behind her while she is whipping me, and cracks a cask of holy water over her head. She eventually dies and we loot the place. the DM has accepted that me being destroyed and true ressed will work. However, the party wants to make a surface run, yet they will not allow me to use the genie lamp, with their cute lvl 3 air elemental as a coffin. They say she does not want me in there, and think I should use something else. This has made me angry. They have no clue how much their party would be gimped without me. Yet they are willing to risk my life, when I could easily sleep in that lamp under the cover of the clerics saves. So when they make their surface run, I intend to not go with them, and send a shopping list along with them, while I adventure solo. they can bring back a true ress scroll or two. Granted the next time we meet the barbarian of our party wil be there, and he will be filled into what has all happened. When I explain to him about what they are doing to me out of petty jealousy for my new found power, and what they are saying to me as if I was something they should kill, I think he will have some words to say. He plays a great barb, but the barb and my wiz are the real power of the group imho. We play to each others strengths, where others screw up alot. My money bets that he takes the genie lamp away from the cleric, puts my grave dirt inside it, and hands me a box of viagra, and tells me to go inside and have a good time. As a matter of fact I might even get him to insist upon it. :cool: I have options, and a 12th wizard vampire is a nasty force in the underdark. Especially if he is hunting evil beings who are geared to killing good parties.
Bonzai 01-28-05, 11:46 AM	Heh, that post made me smile a bit. If the party starts getting jealous of your power, you could always offer to give it to them...Mwuhahahahaha!
Jeremymc 01-28-05, 11:53 AM	While, as I´ve mentioned, I agree that these rules are teh crap(tm) Did you just copyright a Typo? a level 12 wizard with the vampire template actually is level 20, as far as the rules on level loss are concerned, just as an Aasimar with 10 levels of fighter is supposed to be level 11 character. No, that's not what the rules say. Level drain removes a "character level", what you're talking about is a "Level-equivalent character". One who, because of a level adjustment, is CONSIDERED to be a character of so and so level for certain purposes. Basically only experience point distribution. For all other intents and purposes (stats, feats, BAB, level drain) you are still considered a character of 12th level. There simply is no instance where you are a level 12 and a level 20 character at the same time. You´ll have to pick one, and the writ chose to make you level twenty. No pretend to be level 20 for getting XP per encounter, and not being level 20 for something else. That's, in fact, EXACTLY what happens. You are considered to be level 20 for certain things, while considered to be a level 12 character for most others. But what you are DEFINITELY not is a character with 20 levels. Therefore you cannot possibly become level 19 when you lose a level. Think of them as marbles, while level adjustment levels are playing cards. The level drain ability/modifier removes one marble from you, no matter how many playing cards you have. The rules are pretty clear on this issue, and no amount of handwaving will change that. Oh I'm sorry, was I supposed to be hand-wringing? I was too busy writing the correct answers to these questions... ;) P.S. This makes vampires EXTREMELY dangerous to characters with a LOT of templates and not many character levels/monster class HD. If you are a character of ECL (Equivalent Character Level) 20, but you only have 8 Hit dice of actual player level, you can only take 8 negative levels of damage before falling unconscious/dying.
Bane 01-28-05, 02:00 PM	Luckily, undead are immune to negative levels. If I were you, I would make the barbarian a vampire too, and have the rest of the party get him a Lifedrinker (Greataxe that does negative levels to the wielder and the target) Now isn't that sickening?
Jeremymc 01-28-05, 02:12 PM	Yah, but it's embarassing when your 10 ECL Tiefling Half-Dragon Titan Bloodline fighter goes down in TWO vampire punches.... ouch....
sma 01-29-05, 12:43 AM	There seems to be some confusion, and I´m never ruling out that it´s me. I´ll do this step by step, so please point out where exactly I´m going wrong and why. A 10th level Wizard with 45.000 XP gets bitten by a vampire. We apply the hefty Level adjustment of eight. Now we have an ECL 18 character with 45.000 XP The rules for monsters as characters on p.172 DMG apply. To attain the next level he´d need to reach 171.000 XP If he does so, he´d be an ECL 19 character. An Aasimar with 17 levels of Paladin is an ECL 18 character. If the Paladin reaches 171.000 XP he´d be an ECL 19 character. Now the ECL 18 Vampire and the ECL 18 Paladin both lose a level. The rules under the heading of Level Loss on page 286 of the DMG apply to both characters. The Paladin loses one hit die and all bonuses gained therefrom (caster level, BAB, saves, hitpoints, spellslots, special mount benefits, smite damage) The Paladin is now an ECL 17 character. The Wizard loses on hit die and all bonuses he gained from it (caster level, BAB, saves, hitpoints, spellslots, familiar benefits, bonus feat.) The Wizard is now an ECL 17 Character. The Paladins XP total is set to the midpoint of the previous level The Wizards XP total is set to the midpoint of the previous level. When you´re an ECL 18 character, level 17 is the previous level. The midpoint of level 18 and 17 is 144.500 XP. Free XP make baby seals cry. So if you´d be so kind and show me the error of my ways I´ll be more than happy to share my trademark with you :).
Zendu 01-29-05, 02:44 AM	Do you know how many players whould kill to be a vampire? Literally? Dude you get fast healing.... FAST HEALING But you really need to talk to your dm, because dnd vampires SUCK to clarify: Dnd vampires are okay as just another monster, aka wriaths ghasts and the like, but for something that gains eternal life and near infinte power from the boundrys of life and death, they suck. Go watch Bram Stoker's Dracula and tell me you like dnd vampires. ask him if you can drop your levels as sorc and become a vampire freinzed beserker or something else to make him REALLY regret his choice..
Neeek 01-29-05, 04:27 AM	But you really need to talk to your dm, because dnd vampires SUCK Hmm. I'd love to hear you back that up. Let's think about this for a minute... How can you kill a vampire in DnD... Stake through the heart? I'm sorry. No. That would require a called shot. There is no such thing in DnD 3e. Sunlight? Hmm...nope. They can shapeshift, losing their undead type. Oh well. Immersion in water? Umm...They can turn to gas, so no, that isn't working either. Beat them to a bloodly pulp, track down their coffin then destroy it? How are you getting to a coffin than should, if owned by any sane vampire, have been buried under a landslide(they can become gaseous, so that's no problem for them)? Kill them with Greater turning? Well...okay, that works. That's about it. Just avoid the freaking clerics of Pelor(RUN IF YOU SEE ONE and all that) and you should be okay. Oooh! ooh! Gate them to the Positive Material Plane.