Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jeryg 02-22-04, 09:17 PM	hi all, once again, i'm coming to you to hear new ideas... it seems that my character has finally made it to level 11 (horizon walker 6), and first of all, i want to say this : horizon walker kicks butt !! really. i took darkvision 60 ft, immune to fatigue (nice with rage and cumbrous dodge), +4 in hide, move silently and spot. and i've got better hide/move silently skills than the rogue in the group right now ! darkvision rocks for a human. immune to fatigue means i can sleep in heavy armor and use cumbrous dodge virtually all the time. but the best thing is surelly the ability to use Dimension Door every 1D4 rounds. that was my planar terrain mastery choice and i surely dont regret it ! now, back to business : i would like to hear your ideas on where to go from there. note : i am NOT interested in taking Telflammar Shadowlord levels. this is because i currently play a Chaotic Good character and don't really intend to learn new tricks from masters of assassins guilds, and also because my background doesnt have anything to do with the East (we are Cormyr based) and i would have no idea on what's going on there... i know it's a great class for a dimension door caster, but sorry i won't go there. now i was thinking : maybe Holy Liberator, but i already play another character in another campaign who is a holy liberator, so i wanted to see if i can find something else. if nothing really stands out, i will most probably go into holy liberator. here are some details on the character : human : str 18 dex 14 const 16 int 12 wis 12 char 11 feats : power attack, cleave, weapon focus (greatsword), improved critical (greatsword), dodge, cumbrous dodge, endurance, rapid shot (while in light armor, but i usually wear full plate), track. remember that i have a feat and a stat point to choose when i reach level 12 so it can be used to qualify for a PrC... i trust your imagination and your creativity... swarm me in weirdness and atypical stuff ! :D thanks edit : forgot to mention that i was thinking of a way to exploit somehow my sneakyness (i currently have around 15 in both hide and move silently, and i have 60 ft darkvision, and i can use dimension door almost at will). is there anything i should be considering beside going for rogue levels ? i don't really want to take rogue levels since my power attack is usually better than some sneak attack dices (considering i would loose BAB to get rogue levels and that sneak attack is not automatic but power attack is). i think that the concept i am looking for would be an infiltrator warrior. or so...
Gilrion 02-22-04, 09:24 PM	hrm... What about Planar Champion, from Manual of the Planes? Not very powerful, but it does have a couple of useful abilities for a fighter (See Invis, namely). Don't know whether or not it fits thematically, but the Horizon Walker concept may blend well. Just a thought, hope it helps.
Jeryg 02-22-04, 09:37 PM	actually i quite like the concept and the abilities, but unfortunatly it doesnt really fit with the background of the campaign as we never get to travel between planes... my DM might find it really strange if i go for this class.
Boondoggle 02-23-04, 04:52 AM	Another level of Horizon Walker is worth taking for tremorsense. If you take the run feat, you should qualify for the Shadow Scout from OA. Make your full plate mithril and you're movement will double. The favored enemy mechanic needs to be updated to 3.5, but that shouldn't be very difficult. Probably the coolest part is the detect favored enemy spell like ability.
Sisyfos 02-23-04, 05:32 AM	Is there any way to get flurry of blows besides being a monk? (Or the martial flurry from Shou disciple... which is not really a flurry of blows.) The sun school feat tactical feat from CW seems to be a really nice fit for the HW's dimension door ability, but it requires flurry of blows. It allows one strike after DD.
Lomiir 02-23-04, 08:45 AM	Consider Occult Slayer...It works well with chaotic good and you only need 1 more feat to get it(Imp Init) Will get you good saves vs magic, aurasense, and some nifty anti mage abilities. With Aurasense and Tremorsense from Horizon Walker youll always know whats going on :)
Jeryg 02-23-04, 12:57 PM	boondoggle : getting tremorsense was one of my options, it is nice... OA PrCs are unfortunatly not really possible due to background restrictions. Sisyfos : nice idea ! i like. the only way i know to get flurry of blow is monk, sacred fist, exotic weapon master's exotic trick (with double weapon), and arcane duelist (at level 10 though !). i would definitly be a great tactical feat, but i'd have a hard time convincing my DM to take a level of monk for this... plus i don't want to loose my rage. if anyone knows of a simpler way to get flurry of blow (or something that looks like it might pass), please share ! Lomiir : Occult Slayer is a real good PrC. getting will save is one of my main concern (my friends are getting tired of seeing me charmed and running after them...). the only problem is that the Mystic Theurge of the group might not find it very funny. good ideas so far, keep them coming.
rilem 02-23-04, 01:04 PM	As mentioned, you can get flurry with Greatsword with Shou Disciple 5 (unapproachable east). You'd need two feats to get into Shou, though, so you wouldn't get it until the end of your build. Another approach requires Unearthed Arcana, which has a Rage variant called Spinning Rage (or something). You substitute the CON bonus and Will save for a flurry-like extra attack (full BAB, -2 to hit on all attacks) and reflex save (and you still get the Str bonus). Could you sub out your rage element for that?
Jeryg 02-23-04, 03:28 PM	funny... i was JUST reading that alternative rage option and telling myself the same thing. i'll see with my DM if such a change would be possible. going into Shou Disciple isn't really a great option for me since it requires alot of feats i don't really need/want. also, it will take a long time to get there...
lotterybucks 02-23-04, 03:34 PM	an infiltrator warrior is practically a shadowdancer, is it not? you get a nifty little shadow companion and get wicked stealth abilities (evasion, improved evasion, hide in plain sight, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny)
Jeryg 02-23-04, 03:38 PM	yeah, but the shadowdancer doesn't really seem optimal for my character : i need 2 feats to enter the class, i won't be able to use evasion since i almost always wear medium or heavy armor, and i already have darkvision. apart from that, the class doesnt give great abilities imo...
nihility 02-23-04, 03:51 PM	and i've got better hide/move silently skills than the rogue in the group right now ! I'd love to hear how you pull off a better Hide check while in heavy armor than a Rogue does in a mithral shirt. Are you in mithral plate already? Seriously, I am baffled as to why you seem to be throwing away so many of your class abilities and strengths by wearing heavy armor. Maybe you take it off at certain times when you need to sneak? Maybe it is enchanted or somesuch? If it's just regular fullplate, ditch it and get something suitably heavy that also allows you to put that stealth to full use. Edit: wait... did you mean that you have more ranks in Hide and Move Silently than the Rogue? Because that would be something else entirely.
Lomiir 02-23-04, 04:44 PM	Originally posted by Jeryg Lomiir : Occult Slayer is a real good PrC. getting will save is one of my main concern (my friends are getting tired of seeing me charmed and running after them...). the only problem is that the Mystic Theurge of the group might not find it very funny. good ideas so far, keep them coming. There doesn't have to be an issue between yourself and the MT. You need not play the class exactly like it is described. Instead spin it like this: "Well, my character just got tired of getting smacked around by enemy mages, so he did his homework and is now perfecting his new fighting style to combat this type of foe. He harbors no ill will towards magic, or even mages for that matter, but does hate being the target of spells." Unless your DM is a stickler for playing PrCs exactly as they appear in the book this shouldnt be a problem. It's really quite logical, if you were constantly being barraged by mages you'de learn how to fight them too :)
Jeryg 02-23-04, 04:47 PM	nihility : yeah that's what i meant ;) anyway, i tend to use mostly my full plate right now since we are fighting alot in heavy melee (i.e. in the middle of a blattle of 2000 warriors). just before that, we had to fight our way through the infamous Thornwood forest where sneakyness turned out to pay much less than defense... in a situation where i can make use of my skills, i would switch for a chain shirt (mithral dream on... we play very very poor characters, my only magical item is a pair of gauntlets +2 str), or a breast plate. now, i'm just having a look at the windrider PrC (masters of the wild). that seems really nice : fighter BAB, a few spells, good fortit and will saves, only 1 feat required (mounted combat), and really cool look (like riding a giant eagle). its just a thought though, so if you've got something else to suggest, please do.
horndgod 02-23-04, 05:36 PM	The OA core class, Sohei, gives a flurry of blows ability, but only during a ki frenzy.
Boondoggle 02-23-04, 10:36 PM	He said no OA, and the sohei is lawful besides... I still think the shadow scout is a good option. Nothing about the class is dependant on the OA setting. It would work well in any setting. Another option is to worship Kord and take 4 levels of templar. You already have the feats, but you would need 8 ranks in knowledge (religion). It won't help you sneak much, but will make you more powerful in combat.