Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 08:30 PM	For a barbarian build, I'm using Human, and looking for a big damage build. One idea I had was (Monkeygrip a large bastard sword <- Doubting this now), so that I get that 3d6+(Str*1.5), and eventually get Two Weapon Fighting/Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (with Exotic Weapon Proficiency <Bastard Sword>) so I can get ahold of a Scimitar or Longsword and have: Large Bastard Sword (Main)/Medium Longsword (Offhand) Any other plans for building up a character designed for either 1h or dual wielding pain? I'm trying to maximize damage. Other info: Human, Medium Size Barbarian 2 (atm) Str: 16 Dex: 16 Con: 16 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Cha: 10
mercury529 02-21-07, 08:30 PM	Hurry up and edit your post to remove any mention of the words monkey grip. It is widely considered to be one of the worst feats in the game. Generally, one of the best ways to increase melee damage is to make good use of power attack. Effective ways to do this include Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and Combat Brute.
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 08:43 PM	Never knew that it was considered a bad feat. Thought it was actually decent for wielding a larger weapon, or is one allowed to actually wield a large bastard sword as a martial weapon? (or would you just need Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Bastard Sword] to wield a large one 2handed)
SoulReaverX 02-21-07, 09:20 PM	Hurry up and edit your post to remove any mention of the words monkey grip. It is widely considered to be one of the worst feats in the game. Generally, one of the best ways to increase melee damage is to make good use of power attack. Effective ways to do this include Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and Combat Brute. combining leap attack and combat brute is great, not to mention shock trooper. if you want power attack too, frenzied berzerker is a nice way to get better power attack (ends up being a +4 dmg bonus per -1 bab while wielding 2-handed weapon) if you ever plan on playing something large in the future, awsome blow is very nice in the monster manual I
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 09:30 PM	*nod* So a standard bastard sword, with Power Attack, Leap Attack and Combat Brute would make a powerful setup -More fun with it because of Barbarian getting that extra +2 Str Mod during a rage, then Frenzied Berserker going even further. (Main reason for this: Someone said Dragonfire Adept is overpowered lol, this is more fun) -Need some lower level feats now, since Leap Attack and Combat Brute are at least 6th and 9th level bits. Need another 1st and a 3rd. (Cleave Work for a 1st, could get useful for when using Leap and such)
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 09:46 PM	So far I'm thinking Power Attack and Cleave for the 1st level, Improved Sunder for the 3rd, and then Leap Attack for 6th and possibly just jump a level into Fighter at 6th-7th level for the extra feats (Combat Brute and ?-Feat), then resume Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker for the rest. Any other method would be better?
SoulReaverX 02-21-07, 10:11 PM	So far I'm thinking Power Attack and Cleave for the 1st level, Improved Sunder for the 3rd, and then Leap Attack for 6th and possibly just jump a level into Fighter at 6th-7th level for the extra feats (Combat Brute and ?-Feat), then resume Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker for the rest. Any other method would be better? if your going the sunder route, the goliath greathammer or w/e is a great weapon that adds +2 to your sunder attempts (cant remember if its +2 dmg or to attack roll) its in the races of stone if your interested, although this would sadly consume a feat to wield it (exotic 2-handed weapon; does 1d12 and crit x4) otherwise i would say for a high str charactor, improved trip is better (if you qualify that is) because it gives you a free immediate attack if the trip is succesful, and prone enemies = easy target which means full power attacking ftw :)
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 10:13 PM	Which is a very good route. If I take Combat Expertise at 3rd level, since it's unaccounted for (that feat slot), and then during 6-7th level take Fighter, I get 3 feats, two of which will be used for Leap Attack and Combat Brute, and the third could be Improved Trip, provided I make the cut for the abilities needed.
SoulReaverX 02-21-07, 10:39 PM	Which is a very good route. If I take Combat Expertise at 3rd level, since it's unaccounted for (that feat slot), and then during 6-7th level take Fighter, I get 3 feats, two of which will be used for Leap Attack and Combat Brute, and the third could be Improved Trip, provided I make the cut for the abilities needed. since you in fact ARE taking combat expertise, i highly, highly suggest taking karmic strike from complete warrior. i was thinking it would work well because while raging and using frenzy, your AC is going to take a huge penalty already and even items would only boost it back up to a meager level, so why not take another -4 from your AC to be able to get a free attack of opportunity? im not really sure that you will meet the requirements for dex and whatnot, but if you do it would probably be nice.
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 10:40 PM	That sounds like an interesting route, since I do have decent Dexterity for that AoO route. I'll look into that. Thanks
Blade2718 02-21-07, 11:01 PM	If you are planning on going for Frenzied Berserker (not sure; doesn't look like it, but other posters are leaning that way), then scrap Combat Expertise, since you can't use it or any feats it is a prerequisite for in a Frenzy.
SoulReaverX 02-21-07, 11:09 PM	If you are planning on going for Frenzied Berserker (not sure; doesn't look like it, but other posters are leaning that way), then scrap Combat Expertise, since you can't use it or any feats it is a prerequisite for in a Frenzy. i completely forgot about that, because i wasnt looking straight into the book as i posted lol. improved trip is still viable of course. although frenzy doesnt say you cant use any other feats.....it only stricly prohibits combat expertise. i guess using a feat thats remotely in the same tree wouldent be allowed. something you could do is take rightous wrath. i know it doesnt say anything about frenzy, but most DM's ive talked with have no problem letting it apply to frenzy. it would basically make sure you dont rape your entire team after your enemies are dead lol, because for frenzy it says if you dont have any more enemies to fight, you must attack the nearest creature with no regard to health or friendship. and the low will save of a barbarian/frenzied berzerker would make it hard to beat DC 20 to break out of frenzy. you might wanna talk with your DM about letting rightous wrath apply to frenzy, its not an unreasonable request. its in the BoED if you need to see it.
Kitsuna 02-21-07, 11:14 PM	If not Combat Expertise, then I'll find another route. I have one build method here so far: 1st: Power Attack 1st: Cleave 3rd: Great Cleave 6th: Improved Sunder 6th: Leap Attack 7th: Combat Brute 9th: ??? 1-5th Barbarian 6-7th Fighter 8+ Frenzied Berserker/Barbarian (if FB, then no Combat Expert at 9th)
mercury529 02-21-07, 11:45 PM	Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=776085) is a build I came up with for the FB Kitsuna. Without a means of controlling and ending your frenzy, you are a walking timebomb. The build makes it much safer to play an FB (and probably less likely to cause a death than using an inferior melee fighter).
Kitsuna 02-22-07, 12:41 AM	Yea, it's kind of a timebomb method, but the main problem is that we're limited on book selection. Barely able to use splat books, so I'm luckily able to use Complete Warrior, so I'm being careful with feats chosen. Leap Attack I should be able to squeeze in, but I dunno about Tome of Battle or other things.
pfooti 02-22-07, 09:17 AM	I imagine you're in the middle of playing the character? If not, and if you have Races of Stone available, I'd suggest looking at the Goliath race. It's an astoundingly good barbarian race. +4 Str, +2 Con, 3d6 greataxes, and 10' reach when you're raging. My current Barbarian build is a little bit weird. I'm using Tome of Battle, and have: Swordsage 3 / Barbarian 1 / Stoneblessed 3 / Deepwarden 2 as my plan so far (I'm just at the Swordsage 3 / Barbarian 1 stage so far). Stoneblessed gives you +2 con and some boring abilities, but it also gets you qualified for Deepwarden. Deepwarden lets you use your CON modifier to your AC instead of DEX, which is great for barbarians, since your rage pumps CON but dumps AC (so it washes out). Even if you don't like Deepwarden (since you've got a decent DEX already), goliath is great because of the cool Bullrush feats they have access too (also from races of stone). Knockback (or Knockdown? I keep forgetting) lets you get a free bullrush on anyone you Power Attack, and you don't have to follow them. Rampaging Bull Rush gives you the ability to take a -4 penalty on the bullrush in exchange for knocking the opponent prone at the end of the rush. Even if you stay human, check out the new Fighter alternate class feature in Dungeonscape. At fighter-2, instead of a feat, you get the ability to do something like 3d8 + STR bonus damage to anybody you bullrush into a wall. This is especially good with knockback, since you hit them (they take damage) and send them flying (so they hit the wall and take more damage). Woo! And yeah, Leap attack is great during a charge, as is Shock Trooper. The key part about Shock Trooper is that you get to do a full power attack, but take the penalty to AC instead of your attack roll, so you're more likely to hit. The downside is you need to protect yourself from further attack, since your AC will be pathetic. That's where all that knockback stuff comes from, which would make your opponent only get one hit (or none, if you knock them prone).
Kitsuna 02-22-07, 09:21 AM	Well gotta fix my old build idea, forgot about Great Cleave requiring +4 BAB, impossible at 3. So gotta review it again myself 1-5th level: Barbarian 6 & 7th level: Fighter 8-13th level: Barbarian (for Great Rage) 14th+: Frenzied Berserker -One could take 2 more levels in Barbarian for the extra Rage per day and 1/- DR but that's a moot point, as FB is going to go Epic anyhow. 1st: Power Attack 1st: Cleave 3rd: Improved Sunder 6th: Leap Attack 6th: Great Cleave 7th: Combat Brute 9th: Destructive Rage 12th: Intimidating Rage 15th: <insert feat> 18th: <insert feat> 21st: <insert feat> Possible choices: Improved Initiative/Dire Charge (yay underpowered epic feats. I could probably talk my DM into saying it's any charge, like Pounce should really be). No idea of what other kinda feats might be fun (Since I'm using Core and Compete Warrior only so far). This is also for a standard human using your average medium greatsword.
pfooti 02-22-07, 09:35 AM	Great Cleave is a stinker of a feat, IMO. I don't remember if you need it as a prereq for anything, but it's a rare occasion when you can one-hit anything and you have all five of them lined up so you cut through all of them. Sure, it's very satisfying, but the conditions have to be just right. And frankly, if the conditions are that right, it is better for you to stay out of the way and let your wizard drop in a fireball, while you go engage the real threat. Instead you might want to look at extra rage. Extra rage is great at low levels, but starts to be pointless later on, so I'd really recommend it if your DM uses the feat retraining rules. But yeah, Frenzied Berserker is great, as long as your party can deal with the likelihood that you'll eventually turn on them. The worst case scenario is a hidden sniper hitting you for some damage. You frenzy, he runs off, you kill the party. Work on your will save. Cumbrous will is good, Thayan Knight (with a Red Wizard in the party) is good, and other stuff. Go check out the library for more threads on that.
Kitsuna 02-22-07, 09:53 AM	Well from what I've heard (I missed the first game, but it was a bit of a mixup anyhow, so we might be refixing the beginning anyhow) it's a swarm game. The game so far is revolving around protecting a town from a monster invasion (it being a key point for the country), so the idea of swarms is what made me think of it. A second thing is that we're trying to stick with mostly core, so I'm lucky enough as is to be using Complete Warrior. I might be able to talk him into allowing "Righteous Wrath" from Exalted (seeing as I'm Chaotic Good) and letting it apply to Frenzy, so I don't kill my partymates*. So I'm sure of not being able to use Feat Retraining, and mostly sure of using Complete Warrior. I don't know what else to do, Extra Rage might help, since if it's swarming stuff, I should be able to just finish them off quickly and not have to deal with too many uses of Rage in a day running me out of daily uses. *Though I'm not above killing 2 of them at the moment ^^;;, as long as it's not consciously my choice. They both dissed my idea of my first character design saying it was overpowered, and it was a Dragonfire Adept that was just good at crowd control, a support role, so I'm showing them just what "overpowered' can be on a limited scale. And if it turns out as an 'accidental' death for them due to my Frenzy, then I can deal with it without feeling too bad (granted I will feel bad for ruining another's playing experience, but they ruined mine too).