Barbarian getting Wis to AC... how? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian getting Wis to AC... how? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xeraph
10-27-04, 01:26 PM So im thinking about a barbarian build, with Whirling Frenzy, aspiring for the Champion of Gwenyfhar Prcs.
Seeing him as a spiritual person, embracing the forces of nature and stuff, kinda like a Monk, i would like to see him getting his Wis Mod to his AC... Now if only i could take a single Monk level, that would be easy, but here i stand with an alignment problem... So, what would you do, all mighty min/maxers? :D
scrollreader
10-27-04, 01:32 PM Monk's Belt.
OR
Druid (UA Variant 1)
OR
Cheesy Alignment Shift. Ex-Monk 1 lets you keep your abilities.
mean_liar
10-27-04, 01:33 PM I traditionally justify a Lawful to non-Lawful alignment shift as it regards Monks as a simple description of the discipline required to be a Monk.

While 'Monk-ing', you need to train constantly and probably respect and trust your masters to a high degree. You need to keep yourself in good physical and mental condition. These and other reasons are a good description of Lawful behavior: namely, predictable.

Post-Monk, you've stopped training so diligently, you don't really feel any great need to automatically respect your masters, you probably have let yourself go a bit... and that easily fits non-Lawful behavior.

Roleplaying a Lawful to non-Lawful alignment shift is easy to do and easy to justify. The only difficulty in it is finding a proper master/Monk monastary to teach you, and then dealing with the in-game consequences of basically learning the fundamentals of unarmed combat and then ditching out on the higher secrets.

Just don't stop at Monk1 when you get Combat Reflexes at Monk2. ;)
charlesatan
10-27-04, 01:37 PM The relevant thread can be found <a href="http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889" target="new">, but to make a long story short, get the Saint template from Book of Exalted Deeds; you get your Wis bonus as an insight bonus to AC.
charlesatan
10-27-04, 01:40 PM Monk's Belt.
OR
Druid (UA Variant 1)
OR
Cheesy Alignment Shift. Ex-Monk 1 lets you keep your abilities.

Sorry but the Monk's Belt only gives you the +1 AC bonus, not the one that lets you apply your Wis bonus.
rilem
10-27-04, 01:55 PM Charlesatan: Where has that been clarified? Note the SRD:

Belt, Monk's .... If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.

and

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level.

Those aren't separate AC bonuses -- as written, they go together. So while cheesy, the Monk's Belt, as written, should give you both.

I'm not aware of an Errata or FAQ that changes this. If you have seen one, please cite it. I'd like to know.
Zathyr
10-27-04, 01:57 PM nevermind. I'd delete this, if I could see how..
Xeraph
10-27-04, 01:58 PM Wow, you really are the Allmighty gods of Min/maxing... Never have i recieved replies this fast... feels like a Optimizing Chatroom. :D

Thinking the Variant (UA) Druid might be a good idea. Dont want to rely on items, and frankly, i dont know if my DM, which i have never played with before, will alow me to start as: ""1st level, Human, Barbarian, Humanoid [Saint]. :) "" We all start in first level, im chosing human as race, seeing i dont get many feats from the barbarian class, and starting as a saint... wow, need many many pages of background story for that one, hehe. (Really liking the Druid Variant already)

But what are my chances of getting Rage from other base classes? I know that you can ditch rage in UA for Favored Enemy and such... is it legal to go the other way? I mean, a ranger with rage? And is there any other UA varaints that include rage? Love to be able to Balance, Tumble, Hide and Move Silently... But i love Uncanny Dodge aswell... :bigeyes:

Anyways, seeing i havent even rolled scores, all ideas are greatly appriciated!!!

Some info: We roll 4d6, take way the lowest dice. Reroll anything less than 11 (yes i know, very munchkin), and make 7 scores... Ditch the lowest score. Everything is legal, as long as its in the book. Restrictions: must be good... and proberly only ECL+0.
rilem
10-27-04, 02:06 PM You can't take saint at 1st level; you need to be 6th, I believe. That said, the variant druid rules are probably a good idea.

You could also be a paragon half-orc/monk/champion of G. I think half-orc paragons (also U.A.) get rage without the alignment restriction.
Xeraph
10-27-04, 02:15 PM I just dont think Rage 1/day is enough. Would prefer a class that gets me rage continuisly through all levels. Is UA really the only source ofr official bendings of the core rules? I dont subscribe to Dragon Magazine... unfortunatly... but i would guess there would be many new ideas there?
Khazra Reborn
10-27-04, 02:30 PM Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though.

Maybe exmonk9/shiba protector1/dragon warior10.
What you get:
Wis to AC twice (once unamed,once deflection), +8str & con rage, wis to HP for 10 levels, wis to hit & damage, obscene saves(+15,+15,+15),4 attacks & spell resistance.
Stat order wis,con or str (personal preference), dex,int,cha.
Pick up a monks belt & tattoo so that if you ever get disarmed of your greatsword you are decent in unarmed combat (flurry 16/16/11/6/1, 2D6 damage).
rilem
10-27-04, 02:36 PM What about extra rage? That's typically a must-have feat for early-exit barbarians.

Let's try the half-orc example, b/c I can't recall the details of the whole Druid thing and the monk's belt is too obvious.

Half-OrcParagon3/Monk3/ShouDisciple5/ChampionofG10
Gets you both whirling rage and martial flurry. Note the CoG stacks with barbarian levels for determining number of rages and greater rage (you'llmiss out on greater rage (bbn 11) unless you have a nice DM)

or, since you wanted a raging ranger ...

Half-Orc Paragon3/Monk3/Ranger3/HorizonWalker1/CoG10

You'll use a staff. TWF and flurry stack, but calculating the differing strength bonuses makes my head hurt.

1. Half-Orc Paragon, Knight of Stars
2. Half-Orc Paragon -- rage
3. Half-Orc Paragon -- +2 str., extra rage
4. Monk -- Unarmed Strike*, Imp. Grapple*
5. Monk -- Combat Reflexes*, evasion
6. Monk -- Still Mind, Righteous Rage
7. Ranger -- Track, Favored Enemy
8. Ranger -- TWF*
9. Ranger -- Endurance*, _____
10.Horizon Walker -- Desert (immune to fatigue)
11-20 CoG (Not sure on this -- bbn build's ain't my thing.

oops -- forgot about alignment requirement of CoG. This still requires cheesy alignment shift. OK, well then ....
Xeraph
10-27-04, 02:45 PM First:
Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though.
:OMG!

Second:
Maybe exmonk9/shiba protector1/dragon warior10.
What you get:
Wis to AC twice (once unamed,once deflection), +8str & con rage, wis to HP for 10 levels, wis to hit & damage, obscene saves(+15,+15,+15),4 attacks & spell resistance.
Stat order wis,con or str (personal preference), dex,int,cha.
Pick up a monks belt & tattoo so that if you ever get disarmed of your greatsword you are decent in unarmed combat (flurry 16/16/11/6/1, 2D6 damage).
Incredible build! But i must start the game with Whirling Frenzy... must must must! :)

Third:
Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though.
:OMG!
Where can i find this Prcs?

Fourth:
Half-OrcParagon3/Monk3/ShouDisciple5/ChampionofG10
.
Its an Eberron campaign... Considering that Paragon Half-orc though...

Fifth:
Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though.
:OMG!
How how how? Must be Barbarian/Shiba Protector/Dragon Worrier/Champion of G... must!
Xeraph
10-27-04, 02:49 PM (Just noticed your Edit)
How about... Barbarian ?th/Shiba Protector 1st/Dragon Worrier ?th/Ranger/Horizon Walker 1st/Champion of G 10th....???
rilem
10-27-04, 02:58 PM Dragon Warrior is, I think, from a 3rd party company — Legends and Lairs, if I recall correctly.
sereg
10-27-04, 03:00 PM No, Dragon Warrior is from Dragon #298.

If you want to really have fun, combine it, shiba protector, monk levels, paladin levels, and the senerity feat.

Sereg
Norad
10-27-04, 03:07 PM You will definitely need to use Oriental Adventures material if you want to get the Wisdom to AC without shifting your alignment to go into Barbarian.

I kind of like this one:

Cobra Strike Monk(UA) 6/Shou Disciple 5/Singh Rager 8/Shiba Protector 1

Or this might work also:

Cobra Strike Monk(UA) 4/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 2/Singh Rager 4/Sacred Fist 7/Shiba Protector 1

Granted, if you want to totally ignore any of the background material you can mix and match the Rokugan clan PrCs together and get some crazy combos also.
rilem
10-27-04, 03:07 PM Ah. If Dragon stuff is OK, you could also just take Raging Monk from Dragon, which does pretty much what you'd think.

I am now skeptical that any of these ploys will work perfectly with your concept. Druids still have to be neutral on some axis (so does Dragon Warrior, I think) and Champion of G is CG only.

So some alignment shift is likely in the cards. As such, you might be best off with a simple monk/barbarian shift, or take a monk's belt.
Xeraph
10-27-04, 03:25 PM Fortunatly we are using Oriental Adventures book! BUT i have had no chance of looking through it, yet.

Been looking through Barbarian threads by MuckNuggle
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=111360&page=1&pp=30
But so far i havent seen a good Champion of G build.
I go for as much rage as possible... as many levels giving rage as possible.
The wisdom to AC. Unfortunatly the Dragon Worrier might be to corny, as my character is in no way related to dragons or anything.

Have some questions:
Shiba Protector is what? (Seems this one level is very very powerful)
Raging Monk is what? (Seems like a perfect match)
Singh Rager is what? (What the hell is this? :) )

Can these be build in with a...
Barbarian (for everything it has, i like em')
Horizon Walker (Which actually fits my character concept better than you think)
Champion of G (Which is a must!)

???
rilem
10-27-04, 03:59 PM Shiba Protector gets you Wisdom to Damage at 1st level. It's neat but has some odd RP requirements (not an issue if you don't care).

Some Raging Monk details can be found at crystalkeep.com. They get rage and fast movement. Lose flurry of blows (not an issue with whirling rage).

Singh Rager is from OA, too -- Lawful Rager, I think. Gets pounce, ki shout, lots of stuff. Very strong. But Lawful.
rilem
10-27-04, 04:25 PM Oops. ... meant to hit "edit"

I'm not sure I've seen a BAD Champion of G build. It's quite good.

Shadowcrown is playing a CoG in a play-by-post game I'm running. Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Cleric (luck, war) 1/Frenzied Berserker 3/Champion of Gwynharwyf 2. Absolutely murderous. But I don't think it's what you're looking for.

I'd say your best option is Saint — it's a great template at +2 LA. Wisdom to AC, Holy damage to attacks, fast healing, protective aura, ability boosts — +2 LA is really too low. The one downside is you have to wait.

a: Ranger1/Bbn4/Fighter2/Saint2/HorizonWalker1/Champion10

b: Humanparagon2/Bbn5/Saint2/Horizonwalker1/Champion10

I don't know if CoG gets tireless rage -- you could also take the Tireless feat from Player's Guide to Faerun, and toss the Horizon Walker level.

BAB: a: 18; b: 17
Both get you greater rage, 4/day
Feats available: a: 10 + Track; b: 9

Featsneeded: Extra Rage, Knight of Stars, Righteous Wrath, Endurance (maybe)
Xeraph
10-28-04, 01:36 PM Thanks alot rilem. Thats been very helpful!

Hope I can go Saint later on, as for now im sticking to:

1:: 1st Ranger (starting the game with this would make most sense, and give me skill points i need later on, like knowledge (geography), move silently and hide.)
2:: 1st Ranger/1st Barbarian (need me rrrrage!)
3:: 1st Ranger/2nd Barbarian (need me uncanny dodge)
4:: 2nd Ranger/2nd Barbarian (Skill points again)
5:: 2nd Ranger/3rd Barbarian (need the progress)
6:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian (have regs for horizon walker)
7:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian/1st Horizon Walker (Desert)
8:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian/1st HW/1st Shiba (Uhhhhhhh)
9:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian/1st HW/1st Shiba/1st CoG (Uhhhhhhh even)
and on and on and on..

But untill I get all reg's and game info this will have to do. Its proberly not the most powerful build, but it suits the character well! And if your able to achieve power and character, then i would say your the whole way!
And untill I know the rest of the group, I cant be sure of anything... But untill then I have alot of new ideas to look upon. Thanks again.

Your local Xeraphim :cloud9:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeraph 10-27-04, 01:26 PM	So im thinking about a barbarian build, with Whirling Frenzy, aspiring for the Champion of Gwenyfhar Prcs. Seeing him as a spiritual person, embracing the forces of nature and stuff, kinda like a Monk, i would like to see him getting his Wis Mod to his AC... Now if only i could take a single Monk level, that would be easy, but here i stand with an alignment problem... So, what would you do, all mighty min/maxers? :D
scrollreader 10-27-04, 01:32 PM	Monk's Belt. OR Druid (UA Variant 1) OR Cheesy Alignment Shift. Ex-Monk 1 lets you keep your abilities.
mean_liar 10-27-04, 01:33 PM	I traditionally justify a Lawful to non-Lawful alignment shift as it regards Monks as a simple description of the discipline required to be a Monk. While 'Monk-ing', you need to train constantly and probably respect and trust your masters to a high degree. You need to keep yourself in good physical and mental condition. These and other reasons are a good description of Lawful behavior: namely, predictable. Post-Monk, you've stopped training so diligently, you don't really feel any great need to automatically respect your masters, you probably have let yourself go a bit... and that easily fits non-Lawful behavior. Roleplaying a Lawful to non-Lawful alignment shift is easy to do and easy to justify. The only difficulty in it is finding a proper master/Monk monastary to teach you, and then dealing with the in-game consequences of basically learning the fundamentals of unarmed combat and then ditching out on the higher secrets. Just don't stop at Monk1 when you get Combat Reflexes at Monk2. ;)
charlesatan 10-27-04, 01:37 PM	The relevant thread can be found <a href="http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889" target="new">, but to make a long story short, get the Saint template from Book of Exalted Deeds; you get your Wis bonus as an insight bonus to AC.
charlesatan 10-27-04, 01:40 PM	Monk's Belt. OR Druid (UA Variant 1) OR Cheesy Alignment Shift. Ex-Monk 1 lets you keep your abilities. Sorry but the Monk's Belt only gives you the +1 AC bonus, not the one that lets you apply your Wis bonus.
rilem 10-27-04, 01:55 PM	Charlesatan: Where has that been clarified? Note the SRD: Belt, Monk's .... If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus. and AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. Those aren't separate AC bonuses -- as written, they go together. So while cheesy, the Monk's Belt, as written, should give you both. I'm not aware of an Errata or FAQ that changes this. If you have seen one, please cite it. I'd like to know.
Zathyr 10-27-04, 01:57 PM	nevermind. I'd delete this, if I could see how..
Xeraph 10-27-04, 01:58 PM	Wow, you really are the Allmighty gods of Min/maxing... Never have i recieved replies this fast... feels like a Optimizing Chatroom. :D Thinking the Variant (UA) Druid might be a good idea. Dont want to rely on items, and frankly, i dont know if my DM, which i have never played with before, will alow me to start as: ""1st level, Human, Barbarian, Humanoid [Saint]. :) "" We all start in first level, im chosing human as race, seeing i dont get many feats from the barbarian class, and starting as a saint... wow, need many many pages of background story for that one, hehe. (Really liking the Druid Variant already) But what are my chances of getting Rage from other base classes? I know that you can ditch rage in UA for Favored Enemy and such... is it legal to go the other way? I mean, a ranger with rage? And is there any other UA varaints that include rage? Love to be able to Balance, Tumble, Hide and Move Silently... But i love Uncanny Dodge aswell... :bigeyes: Anyways, seeing i havent even rolled scores, all ideas are greatly appriciated!!! Some info: We roll 4d6, take way the lowest dice. Reroll anything less than 11 (yes i know, very munchkin), and make 7 scores... Ditch the lowest score. Everything is legal, as long as its in the book. Restrictions: must be good... and proberly only ECL+0.
rilem 10-27-04, 02:06 PM	You can't take saint at 1st level; you need to be 6th, I believe. That said, the variant druid rules are probably a good idea. You could also be a paragon half-orc/monk/champion of G. I think half-orc paragons (also U.A.) get rage without the alignment restriction.
Xeraph 10-27-04, 02:15 PM	I just dont think Rage 1/day is enough. Would prefer a class that gets me rage continuisly through all levels. Is UA really the only source ofr official bendings of the core rules? I dont subscribe to Dragon Magazine... unfortunatly... but i would guess there would be many new ideas there?
Khazra Reborn 10-27-04, 02:30 PM	Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though. Maybe exmonk9/shiba protector1/dragon warior10. What you get: Wis to AC twice (once unamed,once deflection), +8str & con rage, wis to HP for 10 levels, wis to hit & damage, obscene saves(+15,+15,+15),4 attacks & spell resistance. Stat order wis,con or str (personal preference), dex,int,cha. Pick up a monks belt & tattoo so that if you ever get disarmed of your greatsword you are decent in unarmed combat (flurry 16/16/11/6/1, 2D6 damage).
rilem 10-27-04, 02:36 PM	What about extra rage? That's typically a must-have feat for early-exit barbarians. Let's try the half-orc example, b/c I can't recall the details of the whole Druid thing and the monk's belt is too obvious. Half-OrcParagon3/Monk3/ShouDisciple5/ChampionofG10 Gets you both whirling rage and martial flurry. Note the CoG stacks with barbarian levels for determining number of rages and greater rage (you'llmiss out on greater rage (bbn 11) unless you have a nice DM) or, since you wanted a raging ranger ... Half-Orc Paragon3/Monk3/Ranger3/HorizonWalker1/CoG10 You'll use a staff. TWF and flurry stack, but calculating the differing strength bonuses makes my head hurt. 1. Half-Orc Paragon, Knight of Stars 2. Half-Orc Paragon -- rage 3. Half-Orc Paragon -- +2 str., extra rage 4. Monk -- Unarmed Strike, Imp. Grapple 5. Monk -- Combat Reflexes, evasion 6. Monk -- Still Mind, Righteous Rage 7. Ranger -- Track, Favored Enemy 8. Ranger -- TWF 9. Ranger -- Endurance*, _____ 10.Horizon Walker -- Desert (immune to fatigue) 11-20 CoG (Not sure on this -- bbn build's ain't my thing. oops -- forgot about alignment requirement of CoG. This still requires cheesy alignment shift. OK, well then ....
Xeraph 10-27-04, 02:45 PM	First: Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though. :OMG! Second: Maybe exmonk9/shiba protector1/dragon warior10. What you get: Wis to AC twice (once unamed,once deflection), +8str & con rage, wis to HP for 10 levels, wis to hit & damage, obscene saves(+15,+15,+15),4 attacks & spell resistance. Stat order wis,con or str (personal preference), dex,int,cha. Pick up a monks belt & tattoo so that if you ever get disarmed of your greatsword you are decent in unarmed combat (flurry 16/16/11/6/1, 2D6 damage). Incredible build! But i must start the game with Whirling Frenzy... must must must! :) Third: Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though. :OMG! Where can i find this Prcs? Fourth: Half-OrcParagon3/Monk3/ShouDisciple5/ChampionofG10 . Its an Eberron campaign... Considering that Paragon Half-orc though... Fifth: Dragon Warrior prc gives you wis to ac, wis to hp for each level (ontop of con), free flaming weapon enhancement on greatsword, SR & a rage type thingy which gets to +8str & con,+4 to will save!!!! You have to be neutral on the law-chaos side of things though. :OMG! How how how? Must be Barbarian/Shiba Protector/Dragon Worrier/Champion of G... must!
Xeraph 10-27-04, 02:49 PM	(Just noticed your Edit) How about... Barbarian ?th/Shiba Protector 1st/Dragon Worrier ?th/Ranger/Horizon Walker 1st/Champion of G 10th....???
rilem 10-27-04, 02:58 PM	Dragon Warrior is, I think, from a 3rd party company — Legends and Lairs, if I recall correctly.
sereg 10-27-04, 03:00 PM	No, Dragon Warrior is from Dragon #298. If you want to really have fun, combine it, shiba protector, monk levels, paladin levels, and the senerity feat. Sereg
Norad 10-27-04, 03:07 PM	You will definitely need to use Oriental Adventures material if you want to get the Wisdom to AC without shifting your alignment to go into Barbarian. I kind of like this one: Cobra Strike Monk(UA) 6/Shou Disciple 5/Singh Rager 8/Shiba Protector 1 Or this might work also: Cobra Strike Monk(UA) 4/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 2/Singh Rager 4/Sacred Fist 7/Shiba Protector 1 Granted, if you want to totally ignore any of the background material you can mix and match the Rokugan clan PrCs together and get some crazy combos also.
rilem 10-27-04, 03:07 PM	Ah. If Dragon stuff is OK, you could also just take Raging Monk from Dragon, which does pretty much what you'd think. I am now skeptical that any of these ploys will work perfectly with your concept. Druids still have to be neutral on some axis (so does Dragon Warrior, I think) and Champion of G is CG only. So some alignment shift is likely in the cards. As such, you might be best off with a simple monk/barbarian shift, or take a monk's belt.
Xeraph 10-27-04, 03:25 PM	Fortunatly we are using Oriental Adventures book! BUT i have had no chance of looking through it, yet. Been looking through Barbarian threads by MuckNuggle http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=111360&page=1&pp=30 But so far i havent seen a good Champion of G build. I go for as much rage as possible... as many levels giving rage as possible. The wisdom to AC. Unfortunatly the Dragon Worrier might be to corny, as my character is in no way related to dragons or anything. Have some questions: Shiba Protector is what? (Seems this one level is very very powerful) Raging Monk is what? (Seems like a perfect match) Singh Rager is what? (What the hell is this? :) ) Can these be build in with a... Barbarian (for everything it has, i like em') Horizon Walker (Which actually fits my character concept better than you think) Champion of G (Which is a must!) ???
rilem 10-27-04, 03:59 PM	Shiba Protector gets you Wisdom to Damage at 1st level. It's neat but has some odd RP requirements (not an issue if you don't care). Some Raging Monk details can be found at crystalkeep.com. They get rage and fast movement. Lose flurry of blows (not an issue with whirling rage). Singh Rager is from OA, too -- Lawful Rager, I think. Gets pounce, ki shout, lots of stuff. Very strong. But Lawful.
rilem 10-27-04, 04:25 PM	Oops. ... meant to hit "edit" I'm not sure I've seen a BAD Champion of G build. It's quite good. Shadowcrown is playing a CoG in a play-by-post game I'm running. Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Cleric (luck, war) 1/Frenzied Berserker 3/Champion of Gwynharwyf 2. Absolutely murderous. But I don't think it's what you're looking for. I'd say your best option is Saint — it's a great template at +2 LA. Wisdom to AC, Holy damage to attacks, fast healing, protective aura, ability boosts — +2 LA is really too low. The one downside is you have to wait. a: Ranger1/Bbn4/Fighter2/Saint2/HorizonWalker1/Champion10 b: Humanparagon2/Bbn5/Saint2/Horizonwalker1/Champion10 I don't know if CoG gets tireless rage -- you could also take the Tireless feat from Player's Guide to Faerun, and toss the Horizon Walker level. BAB: a: 18; b: 17 Both get you greater rage, 4/day Feats available: a: 10 + Track; b: 9 Featsneeded: Extra Rage, Knight of Stars, Righteous Wrath, Endurance (maybe)
Xeraph 10-28-04, 01:36 PM	Thanks alot rilem. Thats been very helpful! Hope I can go Saint later on, as for now im sticking to: 1:: 1st Ranger (starting the game with this would make most sense, and give me skill points i need later on, like knowledge (geography), move silently and hide.) 2:: 1st Ranger/1st Barbarian (need me rrrrage!) 3:: 1st Ranger/2nd Barbarian (need me uncanny dodge) 4:: 2nd Ranger/2nd Barbarian (Skill points again) 5:: 2nd Ranger/3rd Barbarian (need the progress) 6:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian (have regs for horizon walker) 7:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian/1st Horizon Walker (Desert) 8:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian/1st HW/1st Shiba (Uhhhhhhh) 9:: 3rd Ranger/3rd Barbarian/1st HW/1st Shiba/1st CoG (Uhhhhhhh even) and on and on and on.. But untill I get all reg's and game info this will have to do. Its proberly not the most powerful build, but it suits the character well! And if your able to achieve power and character, then i would say your the whole way! And untill I know the rest of the group, I cant be sure of anything... But untill then I have alot of new ideas to look upon. Thanks again. Your local Xeraphim :cloud9: