Barbarian or Monk build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian or Monk build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nmaster
06-01-05, 02:12 AM I'm actually new to the Pnp version of D&D and have been trying to get into my first campaign, they said that if i get a build then they'll let me in and i've been thinking of 2 different ones that i'd like to try, yet i don't really know how to build a good character, the 2 builds i've been meaning to try, is a barbarian grappler, or a blind monk, so can anyone give me alittle help on the matter?
nachtmeister
06-01-05, 03:39 AM a blind character is no good idea :D

perhaps a highlevel druid who can wildshape into something noneblind...
thegreatbuddha
06-01-05, 04:51 AM What level will you be starting at, what books are you allowed to use, and do you know what your ability scores will be?
Nmaster
06-03-05, 01:52 AM well he was gonna let me have the ability blind sense so thats why i wanted him blind, it went along with the character i was gonna use, and my ability scores i don't really know, thats why i was asking for some help on that kinda thing
catharz
06-03-05, 02:06 AM A blind monk is doable but tough. Youu're going to want to get the Blindsight 5' r feat ASAP, which takes a wisdom of 19. Max Listen, and take Deflect arrows. Don't take too many levels of Monk, 2 is a good minimum, 6 is a good max.
Nmaster
06-04-05, 06:16 PM oh, well what else would i put points into, and i dont just wanna do the blind monk, llike i said, i'd like to do a barb grappler as well
ksbsnowowl
06-04-05, 11:41 PM A barb with one of the Berserker Lodge feats (owlbear) and improved grapple (both from Unapproachable East) could put you on your way to grappling.

Bear Warrior (Complete Warrior/Oriental Adventures) could also aid you; as might the Berserker PrC from Deities and Demigods.

There's also some PrC in Complete Warrior that's good for grappling (Reaping Mauler?)
Baneslayer
06-04-05, 11:52 PM Both of your builds ideas are inefficient and self punishing, though the Barb Grappler less so than the Blind Monk. Self-Punishing builds are not the thing to play when you are coming in new, learn to Walk before trying to Sprint through the mine-field.

How about you step back a little and tell us what your goals for the character are, what your starting level will be, what the other members of the party are (if you know), and what you are using for Stat generation - point buy or random roll. We also need to know what books the campaign uses - core only, Core + Complete Series, Everything ever published, etc.

We need all of this if we're going to give you worthwhile ideas and information.
Nmaster
06-05-05, 02:23 PM well hell.....if your gonna just tell me that both of those suck then theres no point, i sat down for an hour and a half just trying to think of something that i wanted to play so i guess dont worry about it then.......
ksbsnowowl
06-05-05, 03:27 PM Nmaster, don't pay attention to his negativity. Though what he said about available books, stat generation, party composition, and character goals are true; the more info we get from you, the better we can help.

It is true that it is difficult to make an effective grappler, but there are ways to make a barbarian grappler work. Most of them do involve PrC's that grant you some shape-changing abilities, though. If that isn't the type of character you envision, it may not work well. If, however, that type of character might interest you, I suggest looking into the following PrC's:

Bear Warrior (found in both Complete Warrior and Oriental Adventures)
Berserker (found in Deities and Demigods)
Shapeshifter (found in OA)

And as I said before, Reaping Mauler may help as well.

As for a blind monk, there is some feat, or possibly pair of feats in Complete Adventurer (I think that's the one) that make a blind character fairly feasible. I think one of the feats was called Quick Reconnitour, or something like that. The Two feats basically allowed you to make Listen checks as free actions to pinpoint the locations of creatures (within 30 ft?) Check them out, they may help you.
Gothic Rose
06-05-05, 03:33 PM well hell.....if your gonna just tell me that both of those suck then theres no point, i sat down for an hour and a half just trying to think of something that i wanted to play so i guess dont worry about it then.......

Don't listen to them. Play what you WANT to play. Personally, I like the idea of the blind monk. Of course, I like the idea of a blind samurai better - Zatoichi ROCKS.

You said the DM would give you blind sense. Can you extrapolate on that? What range is it, do you need to take it as a feat, so on so forth?

For the Monk, I suggest going psionic.

Monk 12/Wilder 8

Ask your DM if the Ascetic Mage feat from Complete Adventurer will work for a wilder - wilders are basically psion sorcerers. The wilder levels allow you access to two specific powers - Synesthete a level 1 power that lets you "hear" light, which gives you normal vision - it lasts 10min/manifester level. As well, the third level power Touch Sight gets you REALLY nice visual things, and lasts 1 min/man level.

For the Grappler, I suggest

Barbarian 5/Reaping Mauler 5/Bear Warrior 10

By 20th, you can rage into a Large Dire Bear with a str of 42 (44 if a half orc), which nets you MASSIVE bonuses on grappling.
Nmaster
06-05-05, 06:33 PM i'm not quite sure on the range of blind sense cuz he wasn't sure if he was gonna make a smaller variant of it or not, and yes, i like the idea of shape changing, but as for a bear, i'm not quite so sure, if there is something i can change into that will give me a nice boost then thats awesome, if not then i'll go with the bear warrior and as for the books that we can use, i think the only ones he won't use are any of them that contain only evil characters, he doesn't want us using evil characters as it won't go along with the campaign
Baneslayer
06-05-05, 06:43 PM You said this is your first time into the new system, I'm just pointing out that what you want to do character wise is uber tough under the rules and can lead to fatal surprises. These are builds that I would qualify as Advanced.

A Blind Monk loses his Dex Bonus (and therefore his Monk AC bonuses) on attacks outside of his Blindsense range. You can't Deflect Arrows that come from beyond your Blindsense Range.

As you see there are ample Barb Grappler builds - the Barb/Reaping Mauler/Bear Warrior is wonderful - but you and your DM both need to know the Grappling Combat rules cold or you will run into trouble. If you do your homework then you can avoid the pitfalls.

If you accept these risks and understand you are taking on more than the average player, let us know how much blindsense your DM is giving you and we can give you an excellent Blind Monk build. If you are playing a Good monk, I'd recommend adding a Vow of Poverty (if your DM will allow it) to the build since the VoP won't hurt you any more than being Blind does and the added AC will help against those pesky archers..
Nmaster
06-05-05, 08:24 PM well like i said, he was gonna make a variant of the blind sense, from what he told me the way he normally uses it is where you lose your site but you don't have to make a listen or sight (not sure if that is what it is called) check for creatures within its range, but with this variant he was going to make the range much longer but i still had to make a listen check, i think he said the range was gonna be up to 80ft, but he never really told me what the range is normally, he also actually recommended vow of poverty, though i don't really know what it does
CappyTheMule
06-05-05, 08:59 PM Vow of Poverty if from the Book of Exalted Deeds, and basically what you do is you trade off the ability to have items for a slew of abilities and feats, which plays nicely into the aescetic image. Interestingly enough, at 18th level you get continuous True Seeing as the spell, which (according to the SRD) never says impicitly that you need the ability to see in the first place to benefit from. So, by 18th level you'll actually be able to see better than everyone else. Also, being blind is probably one of the worst flaws you can have, so discuss the flaw variant from Unearthed Arcana. IMO, being willingly handicapped to that level should at least net you a feat. Besides Blind Sense 5', I would also suggest the blindfight feat. Have fun
Nmaster
06-05-05, 11:45 PM well hes decided that for my first one he isn't gonna let me start out with those 2 builds as he says like the rest of you that its to tough for a beginning player, he did say that i could be a warlock as that was my last choice, what things can i do with that, i never read about it in depth, he just said that its a caster thats perfect for me considering i don't like the fact that i'm limited by spell slots if i'm a wizard or sorc and that warlock can cast his (very limited) spells, so my question is, what things can i do with that if i play, again the only books that he won't use is things that contain evil only, he said i could play as a chaotic good or neutral warlock
Gothic Rose
06-06-05, 12:11 AM Okay! There are several excellent warlock threads about the CO boards, like this one. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=353886)

Now, if you want to play a Blaster - i.e., someone who runs around blasting things to the Nine Hells and back again, then I'd suggest something like this:

Human Warlock 20

Invocations:
Least: Frightful Blast, Entropic Warding, Eldritch Spear
Lesser: Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Beshadowed Blast
Greater: Repelling Blast, Vitriolic Blast, Devour Magic
Dark: Retributive Invisibility, Utterdark Blast, Eldritch Doom

Some suggested feats are: Battle Caster, Extra Invocation (can be taken multiple times. Extra invocations are always nice) various Meta-Spell Like Ability feats (Empower Spell Like Ability, Quicken Spell Like Ability, etc), Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast, Greater Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nmaster 06-01-05, 02:12 AM	I'm actually new to the Pnp version of D&D and have been trying to get into my first campaign, they said that if i get a build then they'll let me in and i've been thinking of 2 different ones that i'd like to try, yet i don't really know how to build a good character, the 2 builds i've been meaning to try, is a barbarian grappler, or a blind monk, so can anyone give me alittle help on the matter?
nachtmeister 06-01-05, 03:39 AM	a blind character is no good idea :D perhaps a highlevel druid who can wildshape into something noneblind...
thegreatbuddha 06-01-05, 04:51 AM	What level will you be starting at, what books are you allowed to use, and do you know what your ability scores will be?
Nmaster 06-03-05, 01:52 AM	well he was gonna let me have the ability blind sense so thats why i wanted him blind, it went along with the character i was gonna use, and my ability scores i don't really know, thats why i was asking for some help on that kinda thing
catharz 06-03-05, 02:06 AM	A blind monk is doable but tough. Youu're going to want to get the Blindsight 5' r feat ASAP, which takes a wisdom of 19. Max Listen, and take Deflect arrows. Don't take too many levels of Monk, 2 is a good minimum, 6 is a good max.
Nmaster 06-04-05, 06:16 PM	oh, well what else would i put points into, and i dont just wanna do the blind monk, llike i said, i'd like to do a barb grappler as well
ksbsnowowl 06-04-05, 11:41 PM	A barb with one of the Berserker Lodge feats (owlbear) and improved grapple (both from Unapproachable East) could put you on your way to grappling. Bear Warrior (Complete Warrior/Oriental Adventures) could also aid you; as might the Berserker PrC from Deities and Demigods. There's also some PrC in Complete Warrior that's good for grappling (Reaping Mauler?)
Baneslayer 06-04-05, 11:52 PM	Both of your builds ideas are inefficient and self punishing, though the Barb Grappler less so than the Blind Monk. Self-Punishing builds are not the thing to play when you are coming in new, learn to Walk before trying to Sprint through the mine-field. How about you step back a little and tell us what your goals for the character are, what your starting level will be, what the other members of the party are (if you know), and what you are using for Stat generation - point buy or random roll. We also need to know what books the campaign uses - core only, Core + Complete Series, Everything ever published, etc. We need all of this if we're going to give you worthwhile ideas and information.
Nmaster 06-05-05, 02:23 PM	well hell.....if your gonna just tell me that both of those suck then theres no point, i sat down for an hour and a half just trying to think of something that i wanted to play so i guess dont worry about it then.......
ksbsnowowl 06-05-05, 03:27 PM	Nmaster, don't pay attention to his negativity. Though what he said about available books, stat generation, party composition, and character goals are true; the more info we get from you, the better we can help. It is true that it is difficult to make an effective grappler, but there are ways to make a barbarian grappler work. Most of them do involve PrC's that grant you some shape-changing abilities, though. If that isn't the type of character you envision, it may not work well. If, however, that type of character might interest you, I suggest looking into the following PrC's: Bear Warrior (found in both Complete Warrior and Oriental Adventures) Berserker (found in Deities and Demigods) Shapeshifter (found in OA) And as I said before, Reaping Mauler may help as well. As for a blind monk, there is some feat, or possibly pair of feats in Complete Adventurer (I think that's the one) that make a blind character fairly feasible. I think one of the feats was called Quick Reconnitour, or something like that. The Two feats basically allowed you to make Listen checks as free actions to pinpoint the locations of creatures (within 30 ft?) Check them out, they may help you.
Gothic Rose 06-05-05, 03:33 PM	well hell.....if your gonna just tell me that both of those suck then theres no point, i sat down for an hour and a half just trying to think of something that i wanted to play so i guess dont worry about it then....... Don't listen to them. Play what you WANT to play. Personally, I like the idea of the blind monk. Of course, I like the idea of a blind samurai better - Zatoichi ROCKS. You said the DM would give you blind sense. Can you extrapolate on that? What range is it, do you need to take it as a feat, so on so forth? For the Monk, I suggest going psionic. Monk 12/Wilder 8 Ask your DM if the Ascetic Mage feat from Complete Adventurer will work for a wilder - wilders are basically psion sorcerers. The wilder levels allow you access to two specific powers - Synesthete a level 1 power that lets you "hear" light, which gives you normal vision - it lasts 10min/manifester level. As well, the third level power Touch Sight gets you REALLY nice visual things, and lasts 1 min/man level. For the Grappler, I suggest Barbarian 5/Reaping Mauler 5/Bear Warrior 10 By 20th, you can rage into a Large Dire Bear with a str of 42 (44 if a half orc), which nets you MASSIVE bonuses on grappling.
Nmaster 06-05-05, 06:33 PM	i'm not quite sure on the range of blind sense cuz he wasn't sure if he was gonna make a smaller variant of it or not, and yes, i like the idea of shape changing, but as for a bear, i'm not quite so sure, if there is something i can change into that will give me a nice boost then thats awesome, if not then i'll go with the bear warrior and as for the books that we can use, i think the only ones he won't use are any of them that contain only evil characters, he doesn't want us using evil characters as it won't go along with the campaign
Baneslayer 06-05-05, 06:43 PM	You said this is your first time into the new system, I'm just pointing out that what you want to do character wise is uber tough under the rules and can lead to fatal surprises. These are builds that I would qualify as Advanced. A Blind Monk loses his Dex Bonus (and therefore his Monk AC bonuses) on attacks outside of his Blindsense range. You can't Deflect Arrows that come from beyond your Blindsense Range. As you see there are ample Barb Grappler builds - the Barb/Reaping Mauler/Bear Warrior is wonderful - but you and your DM both need to know the Grappling Combat rules cold or you will run into trouble. If you do your homework then you can avoid the pitfalls. If you accept these risks and understand you are taking on more than the average player, let us know how much blindsense your DM is giving you and we can give you an excellent Blind Monk build. If you are playing a Good monk, I'd recommend adding a Vow of Poverty (if your DM will allow it) to the build since the VoP won't hurt you any more than being Blind does and the added AC will help against those pesky archers..
Nmaster 06-05-05, 08:24 PM	well like i said, he was gonna make a variant of the blind sense, from what he told me the way he normally uses it is where you lose your site but you don't have to make a listen or sight (not sure if that is what it is called) check for creatures within its range, but with this variant he was going to make the range much longer but i still had to make a listen check, i think he said the range was gonna be up to 80ft, but he never really told me what the range is normally, he also actually recommended vow of poverty, though i don't really know what it does
CappyTheMule 06-05-05, 08:59 PM	Vow of Poverty if from the Book of Exalted Deeds, and basically what you do is you trade off the ability to have items for a slew of abilities and feats, which plays nicely into the aescetic image. Interestingly enough, at 18th level you get continuous True Seeing as the spell, which (according to the SRD) never says impicitly that you need the ability to see in the first place to benefit from. So, by 18th level you'll actually be able to see better than everyone else. Also, being blind is probably one of the worst flaws you can have, so discuss the flaw variant from Unearthed Arcana. IMO, being willingly handicapped to that level should at least net you a feat. Besides Blind Sense 5', I would also suggest the blindfight feat. Have fun
Nmaster 06-05-05, 11:45 PM	well hes decided that for my first one he isn't gonna let me start out with those 2 builds as he says like the rest of you that its to tough for a beginning player, he did say that i could be a warlock as that was my last choice, what things can i do with that, i never read about it in depth, he just said that its a caster thats perfect for me considering i don't like the fact that i'm limited by spell slots if i'm a wizard or sorc and that warlock can cast his (very limited) spells, so my question is, what things can i do with that if i play, again the only books that he won't use is things that contain evil only, he said i could play as a chaotic good or neutral warlock
Gothic Rose 06-06-05, 12:11 AM	Okay! There are several excellent warlock threads about the CO boards, like this one. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=353886) Now, if you want to play a Blaster - i.e., someone who runs around blasting things to the Nine Hells and back again, then I'd suggest something like this: Human Warlock 20 Invocations: Least: Frightful Blast, Entropic Warding, Eldritch Spear Lesser: Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Beshadowed Blast Greater: Repelling Blast, Vitriolic Blast, Devour Magic Dark: Retributive Invisibility, Utterdark Blast, Eldritch Doom Some suggested feats are: Battle Caster, Extra Invocation (can be taken multiple times. Extra invocations are always nice) various Meta-Spell Like Ability feats (Empower Spell Like Ability, Quicken Spell Like Ability, etc), Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast, Greater Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast