Barbarian/Bard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian/Bard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GWLlosa
07-18-06, 09:55 AM Hey all. I'm joining up with a new campaign, one that has been described by the DM as "really hard", and to compensate slightly, we're given 30 points for our stat-buys. I'm thinking I'd like to play a character that on the one hand, is very durable and on the other hand, uses his charisma a lot (not really sure why, but the mood struck so I'm running with it). So what I'm thinking is to go with a combination of barbarian and bard, with the bard spells covering the weak areas on barbarian and the barbarian levels being the main source of power. I was also thinking that taking lots of feats like "Kiai Shout" would sort of fit the 'flavor' of the build, in the sense that the flavor is "really imposing scary guy". Any suggestions as to PrCs/Feats/Recommended skills/reasons I'm completely going the wrong way?
Necromas
07-18-06, 09:59 AM Can you perform while raging?
Ipsissimus
07-18-06, 10:01 AM Barb/Bard/Dragon Disciple
Barb/Bard/Skald (from one of the FR books)
Barb/Bard/War Chanter (CW)

Or just Barb/Bard.

IMO Kiai shout and Greater Kiai shout was fun to use when one of our players had it but the limited number of times per day as well as it being a standard action seemed to be less effective when your hitter is better of pulverizing the opposition as a standard action than trying to make a few of them shaken.

If you have access to the Draconomicon, the Frightful Presense feat when you meet the requirements is much more efficient a feat.
moomooacow
07-18-06, 10:20 AM 2 Monk (Imp. Grapple/Combat Reflexes) / 6 Fighter / 7 Cleric of Wargod / 2 Marshall / 3 Warchief or just 4 Marshall and 1 more level of Cleric is a better choice, but the +Str is effective because you can declare your party as your tribe, thus they get the bonuses.

If you want much more effective Charisma use, swap out the 6 levels of Fighter and Cleric and replace them with Ascetic Paladin, making your unarmed strike levels as a paladin work with Monk, and giving you greater Cha synergy. I still prefer the Fighter / Cleric mix though. You might also just want to consider replacing the 7 levels of Cleric with Paladin, which would give you better BAB and some neat skills.

This build only loses like 3 or 4 points of BAB *didn't do the calculation* and is very strength and Charisma heavy. Furthermore, this build actually makes your fighter effective when he's unarmed by virtue of the free improved grapple and Unarmed Strike (you basically get 4 amazing feats in the first 2 levels of monk, not to mention great saves). This character seems pretty solid, you'll have three stat focuses: Wis, Str, Cha, the rest is gravy. Just keep in mind that Monks add their Wisdom modifier to AC, so don't view it as a waste.

Can you perform while raging?

No.
Kamikaze Chicken
07-18-06, 10:28 AM Rage Mage

Found in complete warrior, this 10 level rpestige class enables you to cast spells while in rage, and at tenth level you can throw down tensers stransformation on your self 1 per day cast at character level.

Go look it begs for the Barderian aproach if you ask me.

Maybe 5 bard/ 5 barbarian[using phbII variant if possible]/Rage Mage 10

Looks good to me.

KAMIKAZE! :chicken:
GWLlosa
07-18-06, 11:01 AM I'm not familiar with "Cleric of Wargod" (unless you just mean a cleric with the War Domain?), Marshall, or Warchief. Where do you find those? I have most of the 3.5 books.

Does the 'shaken' effect from things like Kiai shout and Frightful Presence stack? i.e., could I 'Kiai Shout', then charge, and have them all fear ed? (shaken+shaken=fear) and then let loose a Greater Kiai shout (or something) to get them to panic ?

I hadn't thought of Rage Mage. I'll go take a look. Are there lots of bard spells that cause fear? Would those stack with the above things?

Thanks for the tips, guys!

edit: Politeness counts.
rilem
07-18-06, 11:20 AM Yes, fear effects stack. Google the thread "Maximizing the Fear Factor" by Snow Savant (may also be in Optimization Library).

Marshal can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) and is a nice mix into this concept.

There's a "Charismatic Brute" thread a few pages in you also might like. Bbn/OutcastChampion/Menacing Brute.
GWLlosa
07-18-06, 01:57 PM Thanks for the link, the marshal does fit quite nicely :D I'm reading that "Maximizing the Fear Factor" thread now (or at least I will as soon as I'm done with this post). Anyone else have any ideas on other things that 'mesh' well?
ninjarabbit
07-18-06, 03:09 PM Alternatively you could use a barbarian/hexblade.You can use your curse and dark companion (PHB II) to make it easier to hit with the frightful presence and ki shout (or vice versa) and you'll get arcane resistance and mettle, a good number of buff and defensive spells, and you'll get good hps and full BAB.

If you'r willing to be evil 3 levels of blackguard will give you rebuke undead for divine might, dark blessing, and aura of dispair for another stackable -2 to saves.
mellowship
07-18-06, 05:08 PM Hey all. I'm joining up with a new campaign, one that has been described by the DM as "really hard", and to compensate slightly, we're given 30 points for our stat-buys. I'm thinking I'd like to play a character that on the one hand, is very durable and on the other hand, uses his charisma a lot (not really sure why, but the mood struck so I'm running with it). So what I'm thinking is to go with a combination of barbarian and bard, with the bard spells covering the weak areas on barbarian and the barbarian levels being the main source of power. I was also thinking that taking lots of feats like "Kiai Shout" would sort of fit the 'flavor' of the build, in the sense that the flavor is "really imposing scary guy". Any suggestions as to PrCs/Feats/Recommended skills/reasons I'm completely going the wrong way?
If you want durable, charismatic, and scary, try a Champion of Gwynharwyf from Book of Exalted Deeds. They get Cha to saves, rage progression, some spellcasting (which they can cast while raging), and an awesome fear effect (with the DC set by an Intimidate check). At 7th level, they get immunity to charms and compulsions, which somewhat offsets their weak Will save.

Here's a thought: Barbarian 6/Marshal 4/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10. Loses a point of BAB, but gets a better Will save, social skills, and Marshal auras.
Kirech
07-18-06, 05:22 PM Can you perform while raging?
No.
Actually, yes you can. With the exception of abilities which require a skill check, such as fascinate, bardic music is fair game. UA even suggests this tactic in the paragraph on the gestalt 'Bardarian'. This suggests that using bardic music does not count as using the perform skill when no skill check is made.

While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.
moomooacow
07-18-06, 08:09 PM Actually, yes you can. With the exception of abilities which require a skill check, such as fascinate, bardic music is fair game. UA even suggests this tactic in the paragraph on the gestalt 'Bardarian'. This suggests that using bardic music does not count as using the perform skill when no skill check is made.

Last time I checked, perform is a skill. See what RAW does!?!!?!?

Being able to Perform requires a minimum skill, therefore there is a technical skill check. Also, some Bardic Music does require a concentration check. In addition, attempt to get any DM to allow you to sing/perform while your frothing at the mouth and ruthlessly attacking someone, I dare you.
Moherajikuyx
07-19-06, 04:56 AM My barbard/dragon disciple performed by rythmically smashing big things into the foe...

He was a sweetie!
GWLlosa
07-19-06, 12:03 PM On the line of fear effects to use the charisma with, what do you guys think of the 'fear caster' (something-witch?) in the Heroes of Horror book? It gives +spell progression and lots of 'scary' effects, could be handy to go 'with' the barbarian stuff? I.e., bard(or other suitable arcanist)5 / barbarian5 / fear witch 5 / barbarian(or other barbariany thing) 5?
GWLlosa
07-19-06, 03:39 PM Also, are there any melee weapon enhancements that cause fear on hit?
Kirech
07-19-06, 07:31 PM Last time I checked, perform is a skill. See what RAW does!?!!?!?

Being able to Perform requires a minimum skill, therefore there is a technical skill check. Also, some Bardic Music does require a concentration check. In addition, attempt to get any DM to allow you to sing/perform while your frothing at the mouth and ruthlessly attacking someone, I dare you.
Being able to use the Bardic Music ability requires a certain number of ranks in the Perform skill, but a skill check has always only been when you roll 1d20 and add your skill ranks, relevant ability modifier, and other modifiers. This never takes place in the majority of Bardic Music uses. You are not using the Perform skill, you are using a class ability which has the Perform skill as a prerequisite.

Besides, a WOTC-published book recommends singing and raging simultaneously as a viable strategy. What more do you want?

Finally, the whole frothing-at-the-mouth-and-wielding-one's-axe-whilst-singing bit reminds me of several metal bands a friend of mine was into in high-school.
moomooacow
07-19-06, 08:35 PM Being able to use the Bardic Music ability requires a certain number of ranks in the Perform skill, but a skill check has always only been when you roll 1d20 and add your skill ranks, relevant ability modifier, and other modifiers. This never takes place in the majority of Bardic Music uses. You are not using the Perform skill, you are using a class ability which has the Perform skill as a prerequisite.

Besides, a WOTC-published book recommends singing and raging simultaneously as a viable strategy. What more do you want?

Finally, the whole frothing-at-the-mouth-and-wielding-one's-axe-whilst-singing bit reminds me of several metal bands a friend of mine was into in high-school.

Still doesn't mean a DM will allow it, I know none of the ones I've played with would. About that "WOTCH-published recommends it" doesn't mean it's correct, than again WOTC has never been wrong...ever!
Kirech
07-19-06, 09:07 PM I really don't want to get into a flame war over this, but I'd just like to mention the fact that this is Wizards' game we're arguing about, and I think that their writers and editors are a little bit more likely to be regarded as an authority on the rules than your DM (not that I know your DM. He could be Monte Cook for all I know). Anyways, most DMs I know (myself included) would allow it or have allowed it in their games. This includes ones that threaten smiting from on high for using cheesy CO board tricks.
Nausicaa
07-20-06, 05:24 AM I really don't want to get into a flame war over this, but I'd just like to mention the fact that this is Wizards' game we're arguing about, and I think that their writers and editors are a little bit more likely to be regarded as an authority on the rules than your DM (not that I know your DM. He could be Monte Cook for all I know). Anyways, most DMs I know (myself included) would allow it or have allowed it in their games. This includes ones that threaten smiting from on high for using cheesy CO board tricks.

But you certainly know that the DM is the supreme authority of her game. He could decide to make humans blue-skinned with three legs.. And since singing or playing an instrument IS a mental ability that requires concentration, i certainly do not make it viable during a rage. Maybe war chant, or screaming!
GWLlosa
07-20-06, 11:20 AM Wouldn't it be more-or-less the same thing to just use the bardic music buff first, and then go into a rage? The effect lasts several rounds after (more with lingering song), and you don't lose the effect for raging (do you?) Since we're talking about a multiclassed Barbarian/Bard here, it's not too likely that we'd be referring to the really high-up bardic song abilities, a bit of inspire is really all that is likely to be used in this context, I think.
solbergb
07-20-06, 12:23 PM I did something like this, but it is bard/barbarian/fighter because I also wanted to crank the armor class.

I think warchanter works better for this than straight bard. Do your changts, then wade in. Not as much need or desire to do spellcasting once you commit to melee.

OTOH, warchanter takes two feats to enter, one of which can't be used in a rage.

My pattern is to "cork" and do bardsongs/chants until the bad guys decide I'm not a threat, then drop the tower shield, rage and start swinging. Assuming that the other party members have not already anhillated the opposition just from the buffing they're getting.

As I was a high AC build with combat expertise to qualify for warchanter, "goad" is a nice feat to make use of the charisma. Not as recommended for a low AC/high damage barbarian build.

A straight bard/barbarian multiclass nets you pretty good overall saves, half decent melee ability and a handful of spell tricks, at the cost of mostly hitpoints and rage progression - your hitpoints average out to just about what a ranger gets. You'll want extra rage, and you may find fighter levels or PRC levels more compellling than barbarian levels past level 2.

A splash of both bard and barbarian before doing something else though is also kind of interesting - bard2/barb2 gives some nice skills, saves of +3/+3/+3, BAB3, rage, fast movement and a +2/+2 inspirational boost at least once a day. Bringing bard to level 4 gets you more bardsongs/inspirational boosts and some L2 spell action (alter self is very good, as it can be cast before the fight).

Barb2/Bard4 is a fairly good intro to dragon disciple too, where you trade BAB for strength and your L2 spells are good enough that your bonus dragon disciple slots are actually useful (I know one guy who did this, and he got a lot of mileage out of "Fly, swift" via bonus DD slots)
DaveTheMagicWeasel
07-20-06, 12:26 PM Also, are there any melee weapon enhancements that cause fear on hit?

I'm not with my books, but I think there might be something in the Miniatures Handbook.
GWLlosa
07-20-06, 04:15 PM :invasion:
Khazra Reborn
07-20-06, 05:57 PM there was a prc called battle howler of grummsh in dragon sometime ago that was a bardic rager (advanced spells/music but had full BaB & rage). sorry i cant be more specific, i think i must have tossed that issue.
half orc bard5/battlehowler5/warchanter10 would be pretty powerful IHMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GWLlosa 07-18-06, 09:55 AM	Hey all. I'm joining up with a new campaign, one that has been described by the DM as "really hard", and to compensate slightly, we're given 30 points for our stat-buys. I'm thinking I'd like to play a character that on the one hand, is very durable and on the other hand, uses his charisma a lot (not really sure why, but the mood struck so I'm running with it). So what I'm thinking is to go with a combination of barbarian and bard, with the bard spells covering the weak areas on barbarian and the barbarian levels being the main source of power. I was also thinking that taking lots of feats like "Kiai Shout" would sort of fit the 'flavor' of the build, in the sense that the flavor is "really imposing scary guy". Any suggestions as to PrCs/Feats/Recommended skills/reasons I'm completely going the wrong way?
Necromas 07-18-06, 09:59 AM	Can you perform while raging?
Ipsissimus 07-18-06, 10:01 AM	Barb/Bard/Dragon Disciple Barb/Bard/Skald (from one of the FR books) Barb/Bard/War Chanter (CW) Or just Barb/Bard. IMO Kiai shout and Greater Kiai shout was fun to use when one of our players had it but the limited number of times per day as well as it being a standard action seemed to be less effective when your hitter is better of pulverizing the opposition as a standard action than trying to make a few of them shaken. If you have access to the Draconomicon, the Frightful Presense feat when you meet the requirements is much more efficient a feat.
moomooacow 07-18-06, 10:20 AM	2 Monk (Imp. Grapple/Combat Reflexes) / 6 Fighter / 7 Cleric of Wargod / 2 Marshall / 3 Warchief or just 4 Marshall and 1 more level of Cleric is a better choice, but the +Str is effective because you can declare your party as your tribe, thus they get the bonuses. If you want much more effective Charisma use, swap out the 6 levels of Fighter and Cleric and replace them with Ascetic Paladin, making your unarmed strike levels as a paladin work with Monk, and giving you greater Cha synergy. I still prefer the Fighter / Cleric mix though. You might also just want to consider replacing the 7 levels of Cleric with Paladin, which would give you better BAB and some neat skills. This build only loses like 3 or 4 points of BAB didn't do the calculation and is very strength and Charisma heavy. Furthermore, this build actually makes your fighter effective when he's unarmed by virtue of the free improved grapple and Unarmed Strike (you basically get 4 amazing feats in the first 2 levels of monk, not to mention great saves). This character seems pretty solid, you'll have three stat focuses: Wis, Str, Cha, the rest is gravy. Just keep in mind that Monks add their Wisdom modifier to AC, so don't view it as a waste. Can you perform while raging? No.
Kamikaze Chicken 07-18-06, 10:28 AM	Rage Mage Found in complete warrior, this 10 level rpestige class enables you to cast spells while in rage, and at tenth level you can throw down tensers stransformation on your self 1 per day cast at character level. Go look it begs for the Barderian aproach if you ask me. Maybe 5 bard/ 5 barbarian[using phbII variant if possible]/Rage Mage 10 Looks good to me. KAMIKAZE! :chicken:
GWLlosa 07-18-06, 11:01 AM	I'm not familiar with "Cleric of Wargod" (unless you just mean a cleric with the War Domain?), Marshall, or Warchief. Where do you find those? I have most of the 3.5 books. Does the 'shaken' effect from things like Kiai shout and Frightful Presence stack? i.e., could I 'Kiai Shout', then charge, and have them all fear ed? (shaken+shaken=fear) and then let loose a Greater Kiai shout (or something) to get them to panic ? I hadn't thought of Rage Mage. I'll go take a look. Are there lots of bard spells that cause fear? Would those stack with the above things? Thanks for the tips, guys! edit: Politeness counts.
rilem 07-18-06, 11:20 AM	Yes, fear effects stack. Google the thread "Maximizing the Fear Factor" by Snow Savant (may also be in Optimization Library). Marshal can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) and is a nice mix into this concept. There's a "Charismatic Brute" thread a few pages in you also might like. Bbn/OutcastChampion/Menacing Brute.
GWLlosa 07-18-06, 01:57 PM	Thanks for the link, the marshal does fit quite nicely :D I'm reading that "Maximizing the Fear Factor" thread now (or at least I will as soon as I'm done with this post). Anyone else have any ideas on other things that 'mesh' well?
ninjarabbit 07-18-06, 03:09 PM	Alternatively you could use a barbarian/hexblade.You can use your curse and dark companion (PHB II) to make it easier to hit with the frightful presence and ki shout (or vice versa) and you'll get arcane resistance and mettle, a good number of buff and defensive spells, and you'll get good hps and full BAB. If you'r willing to be evil 3 levels of blackguard will give you rebuke undead for divine might, dark blessing, and aura of dispair for another stackable -2 to saves.
mellowship 07-18-06, 05:08 PM	Hey all. I'm joining up with a new campaign, one that has been described by the DM as "really hard", and to compensate slightly, we're given 30 points for our stat-buys. I'm thinking I'd like to play a character that on the one hand, is very durable and on the other hand, uses his charisma a lot (not really sure why, but the mood struck so I'm running with it). So what I'm thinking is to go with a combination of barbarian and bard, with the bard spells covering the weak areas on barbarian and the barbarian levels being the main source of power. I was also thinking that taking lots of feats like "Kiai Shout" would sort of fit the 'flavor' of the build, in the sense that the flavor is "really imposing scary guy". Any suggestions as to PrCs/Feats/Recommended skills/reasons I'm completely going the wrong way? If you want durable, charismatic, and scary, try a Champion of Gwynharwyf from Book of Exalted Deeds. They get Cha to saves, rage progression, some spellcasting (which they can cast while raging), and an awesome fear effect (with the DC set by an Intimidate check). At 7th level, they get immunity to charms and compulsions, which somewhat offsets their weak Will save. Here's a thought: Barbarian 6/Marshal 4/Champion of Gwynharwyf 10. Loses a point of BAB, but gets a better Will save, social skills, and Marshal auras.
Kirech 07-18-06, 05:22 PM	Can you perform while raging? No. Actually, yes you can. With the exception of abilities which require a skill check, such as fascinate, bardic music is fair game. UA even suggests this tactic in the paragraph on the gestalt 'Bardarian'. This suggests that using bardic music does not count as using the perform skill when no skill check is made. While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.
moomooacow 07-18-06, 08:09 PM	Actually, yes you can. With the exception of abilities which require a skill check, such as fascinate, bardic music is fair game. UA even suggests this tactic in the paragraph on the gestalt 'Bardarian'. This suggests that using bardic music does not count as using the perform skill when no skill check is made. Last time I checked, perform is a skill. See what RAW does!?!!?!? Being able to Perform requires a minimum skill, therefore there is a technical skill check. Also, some Bardic Music does require a concentration check. In addition, attempt to get any DM to allow you to sing/perform while your frothing at the mouth and ruthlessly attacking someone, I dare you.
Moherajikuyx 07-19-06, 04:56 AM	My barbard/dragon disciple performed by rythmically smashing big things into the foe... He was a sweetie!
GWLlosa 07-19-06, 12:03 PM	On the line of fear effects to use the charisma with, what do you guys think of the 'fear caster' (something-witch?) in the Heroes of Horror book? It gives +spell progression and lots of 'scary' effects, could be handy to go 'with' the barbarian stuff? I.e., bard(or other suitable arcanist)5 / barbarian5 / fear witch 5 / barbarian(or other barbariany thing) 5?
GWLlosa 07-19-06, 03:39 PM	Also, are there any melee weapon enhancements that cause fear on hit?
Kirech 07-19-06, 07:31 PM	Last time I checked, perform is a skill. See what RAW does!?!!?!? Being able to Perform requires a minimum skill, therefore there is a technical skill check. Also, some Bardic Music does require a concentration check. In addition, attempt to get any DM to allow you to sing/perform while your frothing at the mouth and ruthlessly attacking someone, I dare you. Being able to use the Bardic Music ability requires a certain number of ranks in the Perform skill, but a skill check has always only been when you roll 1d20 and add your skill ranks, relevant ability modifier, and other modifiers. This never takes place in the majority of Bardic Music uses. You are not using the Perform skill, you are using a class ability which has the Perform skill as a prerequisite. Besides, a WOTC-published book recommends singing and raging simultaneously as a viable strategy. What more do you want? Finally, the whole frothing-at-the-mouth-and-wielding-one's-axe-whilst-singing bit reminds me of several metal bands a friend of mine was into in high-school.
moomooacow 07-19-06, 08:35 PM	Being able to use the Bardic Music ability requires a certain number of ranks in the Perform skill, but a skill check has always only been when you roll 1d20 and add your skill ranks, relevant ability modifier, and other modifiers. This never takes place in the majority of Bardic Music uses. You are not using the Perform skill, you are using a class ability which has the Perform skill as a prerequisite. Besides, a WOTC-published book recommends singing and raging simultaneously as a viable strategy. What more do you want? Finally, the whole frothing-at-the-mouth-and-wielding-one's-axe-whilst-singing bit reminds me of several metal bands a friend of mine was into in high-school. Still doesn't mean a DM will allow it, I know none of the ones I've played with would. About that "WOTCH-published recommends it" doesn't mean it's correct, than again WOTC has never been wrong...ever!
Kirech 07-19-06, 09:07 PM	I really don't want to get into a flame war over this, but I'd just like to mention the fact that this is Wizards' game we're arguing about, and I think that their writers and editors are a little bit more likely to be regarded as an authority on the rules than your DM (not that I know your DM. He could be Monte Cook for all I know). Anyways, most DMs I know (myself included) would allow it or have allowed it in their games. This includes ones that threaten smiting from on high for using cheesy CO board tricks.
Nausicaa 07-20-06, 05:24 AM	I really don't want to get into a flame war over this, but I'd just like to mention the fact that this is Wizards' game we're arguing about, and I think that their writers and editors are a little bit more likely to be regarded as an authority on the rules than your DM (not that I know your DM. He could be Monte Cook for all I know). Anyways, most DMs I know (myself included) would allow it or have allowed it in their games. This includes ones that threaten smiting from on high for using cheesy CO board tricks. But you certainly know that the DM is the supreme authority of her game. He could decide to make humans blue-skinned with three legs.. And since singing or playing an instrument IS a mental ability that requires concentration, i certainly do not make it viable during a rage. Maybe war chant, or screaming!
GWLlosa 07-20-06, 11:20 AM	Wouldn't it be more-or-less the same thing to just use the bardic music buff first, and then go into a rage? The effect lasts several rounds after (more with lingering song), and you don't lose the effect for raging (do you?) Since we're talking about a multiclassed Barbarian/Bard here, it's not too likely that we'd be referring to the really high-up bardic song abilities, a bit of inspire is really all that is likely to be used in this context, I think.
solbergb 07-20-06, 12:23 PM	I did something like this, but it is bard/barbarian/fighter because I also wanted to crank the armor class. I think warchanter works better for this than straight bard. Do your changts, then wade in. Not as much need or desire to do spellcasting once you commit to melee. OTOH, warchanter takes two feats to enter, one of which can't be used in a rage. My pattern is to "cork" and do bardsongs/chants until the bad guys decide I'm not a threat, then drop the tower shield, rage and start swinging. Assuming that the other party members have not already anhillated the opposition just from the buffing they're getting. As I was a high AC build with combat expertise to qualify for warchanter, "goad" is a nice feat to make use of the charisma. Not as recommended for a low AC/high damage barbarian build. A straight bard/barbarian multiclass nets you pretty good overall saves, half decent melee ability and a handful of spell tricks, at the cost of mostly hitpoints and rage progression - your hitpoints average out to just about what a ranger gets. You'll want extra rage, and you may find fighter levels or PRC levels more compellling than barbarian levels past level 2. A splash of both bard and barbarian before doing something else though is also kind of interesting - bard2/barb2 gives some nice skills, saves of +3/+3/+3, BAB3, rage, fast movement and a +2/+2 inspirational boost at least once a day. Bringing bard to level 4 gets you more bardsongs/inspirational boosts and some L2 spell action (alter self is very good, as it can be cast before the fight). Barb2/Bard4 is a fairly good intro to dragon disciple too, where you trade BAB for strength and your L2 spells are good enough that your bonus dragon disciple slots are actually useful (I know one guy who did this, and he got a lot of mileage out of "Fly, swift" via bonus DD slots)
DaveTheMagicWeasel 07-20-06, 12:26 PM	Also, are there any melee weapon enhancements that cause fear on hit? I'm not with my books, but I think there might be something in the Miniatures Handbook.
GWLlosa 07-20-06, 04:15 PM	:invasion:
Khazra Reborn 07-20-06, 05:57 PM	there was a prc called battle howler of grummsh in dragon sometime ago that was a bardic rager (advanced spells/music but had full BaB & rage). sorry i cant be more specific, i think i must have tossed that issue. half orc bard5/battlehowler5/warchanter10 would be pretty powerful IHMO.