Barbarian/spellcaster combo--- a possibility? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian/spellcaster combo--- a possibility? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
radu the wanderer
10-17-06, 12:11 AM So my last game just fizzled out, and my friend is taking a turn DMing. He's presenting the players with a rather interesting challenge:

We are all 3rd level human characters from the same tribe. During a coming-of-age ceremony, all the elders were wiped out by an enemy tribe backed up by powerful demonic magics. It's up to us to avenge their deaths.

Here's the CO catch: we are 3rd level characters, but at least 2 of those levels must be in Barbarian. Rather than going the traditional frenzied berserker route, I want to try playing up a rather nontraditional "gish" build with the Rage Mage PRC. Can you help?

Here's my build idea:

Barbarian 2/Warmage 4/Rage Mage 4/Raumathari Battlemage 4/Eldritch Knight 6

Ends with BAB +16, F/R/W base of +14/+5/+10, and a warmage caster level of 15 --- enough for 7th level spells, which ain't bad for a secondary caster concept. I love the abilities of Rage Mage and the RBM and it keeps the "savage caster" theme going. I'm thinking of taking Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword, and Battle Caster as my beginning feats, and going from there.

I'm going to see if my DM will treat the barbarian's Rage and Spell Rage as separate abilities or if Spell Rage is an extension of Rage. I think I may be able to get Extra Rage and snag BOTH, which would be awesome.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-17-06, 12:16 AM Why warmage over socerer? Warmage has more MAD (needs good int and cha). Sorcerer can give you access to polymorph and other great arcane buffs that warmage can't acquire. As for the armor failure problem... there's always mithril thistle down (or whatever that's called) armor. Thow in a little spellsword and you're set.

Other than that, I think the build looks pretty solid.
GaffeR
10-17-06, 12:25 AM Hell yeah! Rage Mage!

I'd probably use Sorc instead of Warmage, or even Wizard instead of Warmage. The ASF might hurt at the start, but you get a better spell list.

Ugh, I played around with progressions only to find yours better. Have you considered sticking a level of EWM for Uncanny blow in there?

Power Attack, Extend, Practiced Spellcaster (at third). Arcane strike as soon as you can get it (if you use Sorc/Warmage). Maybe leap attack later?

Edit: As TG mentioned, you can get some +1 Twilight Mithral Fullplate (with thistledown underlay) as soon as you pick up the 10% ASF reduction from Rage mage and have 0 ASF.

Edit2: Might want to consider askin the DM to allow Ranger, Druid, maybe Totemist and Spirit Shaman as well as Barb.
radu the wanderer
10-17-06, 12:29 AM what is thistledown and where is it?

As for the warmage, I thought it would be a little nicer to not have to worry about armor, as I don't want to use heavies anyway and it's nicer and cheaper to just not get ASF than it is to reduce it. A thought, but I may be able to sqeak by with Sorc and focus on buffs instead of blasts.

Thanks for the feedback!
JosephKell
10-17-06, 12:31 AM I am actually gonna suggest Wizard or rather Transmuter (no enchantment or illusion).

The new Complete Mage has a feat called Toughening that grants temporary DR when you cast a Transmutation. I don't know what quantity or for how long, but it might be something to consider.

Also, Metamagic School is a feat that lowers the spell level increase when applying metamagic. Every Transmutation Spell gets Extend Spell for free (assuming it allows you to lower the level to +0)?

You need to stay in Rage Mage until you get Spell Fury. Spell Fury is an amazing class feature. It makes Spell Rage worth touching.

Also, just because you are a Barbarian, doesn't mean you have to rage your first round every combat.
GaffeR
10-17-06, 12:34 AM what is thistledown and where is it?

As for the warmage, I thought it would be a little nicer to not have to worry about armor, as I don't want to use heavies anyway and it's nicer and cheaper to just not get ASF than it is to reduce it. A thought, but I may be able to sqeak by with Sorc and focus on buffs instead of blasts.

Thanks for the feedback!
Races of the Wild. It's a couple hundred GP underlay that increases ACP by 1 (IIRC) and decreases ASF by 5%.
Githcraft works too, but I think that breaks the savage theme.
AndrasOtto
10-17-06, 12:35 AM More RBM, less EK.
radu the wanderer
10-17-06, 12:37 AM Mergh.... looks like I may have to buy yet another complete book... Tell me-- is this one suffering from the Complete Psionics syndrome? I bought it anyway, as it still IS psionic material, but I was rather underwhelmed.

If I stayed for Spell Fury, I would probably do this:

Barb 2/Sorc 4/Rage Mage 8/EK 6

That nets a +16 BAB still, with F/R/W looking like 15/5/8--- will and reflex are crap. Caster level is still passable at 13, enough for War Troll form at least.

Hurmn... a transmuter is starting to sound increasingly appealing...
GaffeR
10-17-06, 12:54 AM If you did use Transmuter, you'd manage to eek out 7th level spells. Of course, Practiced Spellcaster would get you another 4 caster levels, so that shouldn't be a prob.
JosephKell
10-17-06, 01:01 AM I dunno yet, I haven't gotten it yet. I might go pick it up tomorrow.

I looked at the Feats and I was pleased to see more focus on Specializing wizards.

Also, please note that the Rage Mage table is missing the Angry Spell class feature at 5th and 10th. When you cast a Spell Rage spell during a Spell Rage you get +2 to the DC and +4 at 10th.

So when you do feel like preping save spells, more DC.

Barbarian 2/Transmuter 4/Rage Mage 10/Arcanist 4

When you get to Spellcaster 11 you can do Disintigrates like a champ (that is at level 18, but still). DC 20+Int Modifier (10 + 6th level + 4 angry spell).

When you spell rage you can squeeze off an instant Polymorph on yourself (remember that it doesn't resize your gear so you need to be Enlarged before that). So... Rage + Annis Hag + Bear's Endurance (longer rage).

Practiced Spellcaster is +4 caster levels up to your HD. Spell Rage is set your CL to your Hit Dice. So don't take Practiced Spellcaster. Although, Practiced Spellcaster would allow you to craft stuff at CL +4. So if you want to craft, Practiced Spellcaster is useful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
radu the wanderer 10-17-06, 12:11 AM	So my last game just fizzled out, and my friend is taking a turn DMing. He's presenting the players with a rather interesting challenge: We are all 3rd level human characters from the same tribe. During a coming-of-age ceremony, all the elders were wiped out by an enemy tribe backed up by powerful demonic magics. It's up to us to avenge their deaths. Here's the CO catch: we are 3rd level characters, but at least 2 of those levels must be in Barbarian. Rather than going the traditional frenzied berserker route, I want to try playing up a rather nontraditional "gish" build with the Rage Mage PRC. Can you help? Here's my build idea: Barbarian 2/Warmage 4/Rage Mage 4/Raumathari Battlemage 4/Eldritch Knight 6 Ends with BAB +16, F/R/W base of +14/+5/+10, and a warmage caster level of 15 --- enough for 7th level spells, which ain't bad for a secondary caster concept. I love the abilities of Rage Mage and the RBM and it keeps the "savage caster" theme going. I'm thinking of taking Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword, and Battle Caster as my beginning feats, and going from there. I'm going to see if my DM will treat the barbarian's Rage and Spell Rage as separate abilities or if Spell Rage is an extension of Rage. I think I may be able to get Extra Rage and snag BOTH, which would be awesome.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-17-06, 12:16 AM	Why warmage over socerer? Warmage has more MAD (needs good int and cha). Sorcerer can give you access to polymorph and other great arcane buffs that warmage can't acquire. As for the armor failure problem... there's always mithril thistle down (or whatever that's called) armor. Thow in a little spellsword and you're set. Other than that, I think the build looks pretty solid.
GaffeR 10-17-06, 12:25 AM	Hell yeah! Rage Mage! I'd probably use Sorc instead of Warmage, or even Wizard instead of Warmage. The ASF might hurt at the start, but you get a better spell list. Ugh, I played around with progressions only to find yours better. Have you considered sticking a level of EWM for Uncanny blow in there? Power Attack, Extend, Practiced Spellcaster (at third). Arcane strike as soon as you can get it (if you use Sorc/Warmage). Maybe leap attack later? Edit: As TG mentioned, you can get some +1 Twilight Mithral Fullplate (with thistledown underlay) as soon as you pick up the 10% ASF reduction from Rage mage and have 0 ASF. Edit2: Might want to consider askin the DM to allow Ranger, Druid, maybe Totemist and Spirit Shaman as well as Barb.
radu the wanderer 10-17-06, 12:29 AM	what is thistledown and where is it? As for the warmage, I thought it would be a little nicer to not have to worry about armor, as I don't want to use heavies anyway and it's nicer and cheaper to just not get ASF than it is to reduce it. A thought, but I may be able to sqeak by with Sorc and focus on buffs instead of blasts. Thanks for the feedback!
JosephKell 10-17-06, 12:31 AM	I am actually gonna suggest Wizard or rather Transmuter (no enchantment or illusion). The new Complete Mage has a feat called Toughening that grants temporary DR when you cast a Transmutation. I don't know what quantity or for how long, but it might be something to consider. Also, Metamagic School is a feat that lowers the spell level increase when applying metamagic. Every Transmutation Spell gets Extend Spell for free (assuming it allows you to lower the level to +0)? You need to stay in Rage Mage until you get Spell Fury. Spell Fury is an amazing class feature. It makes Spell Rage worth touching. Also, just because you are a Barbarian, doesn't mean you have to rage your first round every combat.
GaffeR 10-17-06, 12:34 AM	what is thistledown and where is it? As for the warmage, I thought it would be a little nicer to not have to worry about armor, as I don't want to use heavies anyway and it's nicer and cheaper to just not get ASF than it is to reduce it. A thought, but I may be able to sqeak by with Sorc and focus on buffs instead of blasts. Thanks for the feedback! Races of the Wild. It's a couple hundred GP underlay that increases ACP by 1 (IIRC) and decreases ASF by 5%. Githcraft works too, but I think that breaks the savage theme.
AndrasOtto 10-17-06, 12:35 AM	More RBM, less EK.
radu the wanderer 10-17-06, 12:37 AM	Mergh.... looks like I may have to buy yet another complete book... Tell me-- is this one suffering from the Complete Psionics syndrome? I bought it anyway, as it still IS psionic material, but I was rather underwhelmed. If I stayed for Spell Fury, I would probably do this: Barb 2/Sorc 4/Rage Mage 8/EK 6 That nets a +16 BAB still, with F/R/W looking like 15/5/8--- will and reflex are crap. Caster level is still passable at 13, enough for War Troll form at least. Hurmn... a transmuter is starting to sound increasingly appealing...
GaffeR 10-17-06, 12:54 AM	If you did use Transmuter, you'd manage to eek out 7th level spells. Of course, Practiced Spellcaster would get you another 4 caster levels, so that shouldn't be a prob.
JosephKell 10-17-06, 01:01 AM	I dunno yet, I haven't gotten it yet. I might go pick it up tomorrow. I looked at the Feats and I was pleased to see more focus on Specializing wizards. Also, please note that the Rage Mage table is missing the Angry Spell class feature at 5th and 10th. When you cast a Spell Rage spell during a Spell Rage you get +2 to the DC and +4 at 10th. So when you do feel like preping save spells, more DC. Barbarian 2/Transmuter 4/Rage Mage 10/Arcanist 4 When you get to Spellcaster 11 you can do Disintigrates like a champ (that is at level 18, but still). DC 20+Int Modifier (10 + 6th level + 4 angry spell). When you spell rage you can squeeze off an instant Polymorph on yourself (remember that it doesn't resize your gear so you need to be Enlarged before that). So... Rage + Annis Hag + Bear's Endurance (longer rage). Practiced Spellcaster is +4 caster levels up to your HD. Spell Rage is set your CL to your Hit Dice. So don't take Practiced Spellcaster. Although, Practiced Spellcaster would allow you to craft stuff at CL +4. So if you want to craft, Practiced Spellcaster is useful.