bard core 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

bard core 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SoulLord
09-17-03, 05:23 PM im trying to build a high damage dealing bard dont care much if its by spells or by weapons

Currently the restrictions set upon it are
only the 3 main books.

Bard must be the highest level class.

at most 3 different classes(including prestige).

the things ive been toying with are

bard 10 sorcerer 10 .- summon lots of stuff and sing to it.
bard 10 assassin 10.- nice SA damage plus hide in plain sight.
bard10 blackguard 10.- this is the one i like best so far but not many people like the bard blackguard combination;

ive checked already snow´s bard build but this is using only the main books thanks in advance for the ideas

SoulLord
Boondoggle
09-17-03, 06:54 PM [Edit: bleh, my memory sux]
Ranthanas
09-17-03, 07:22 PM High melee damage is hardly the bard's forte. Also don't multiclass it with another spellcaster- you end up with two bad spellcasters and can only cast one spell per round. Fair damage, much versatility and an AC far higher than should be possible is the way to run a melee bard.

(Weapon Finesse, Cat's Grace, Alter Self- Lizardfolk (+5AC), Rapier (enchanted for high damage), Greater Invisibility, Mirror Image, Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroism and playing silly buggers with your target's mind is the usual way to make a melee bard- clobber the fighter's will saves and skewer the mages)

Bard 10/Rogue 10 would be my suggestion for actual high damage, but I think that Bard 20 is much more effective.

If you want to do direct damage rather than ******* people off and whittling them down, invest in a few 4th level wands and many scrolls. Your Use Magic Device should be up to the challenge. (And remember that you have a much better BAB and AC than almost any mage will for using abilities with an attack roll)

Hmm... Wand of Divine Favour, Wand of Divine Power, Scroll of Righteous Might, Wand of Bull's Strength, Wand of Constitution, Scroll of Shapechange and Wand of Enlarge combined with your own spells and it's clobbering time.
SoulLord
09-17-03, 07:33 PM carring on with it besides maxing out use magic device
what would be the best feats and skills for it to choose.

If the ac is very high perhaps go for the two weapon tree?

or if not so high perhaps the archery tree?

rapid shot vs twf, itwf and gtwf

also wouldnt it be better to go assassin instead of rogue?

SoulLord
Kharne
09-17-03, 08:15 PM EDIT: Oops...totally missed the comment about only being allowed the core 3 books. :P
nikademus
09-18-03, 03:31 AM Hello,
Perhaps you could go :

Human
Bard 10 / Blackguard 2 / Eldritch Knight 8.

This gives you Caster Level 17 with the Bard,Divine Grace and
a good Bab +16 (4 attacks).

Feats
01) Cleave, improved sunder
03) Power attack
06) Point blank shot
09) Rapid shot
12) Precise shot
15) Extend spell
18) Craft wondrous items

Nikademus
Boondoggle
09-18-03, 05:03 AM Nice build, nik, I don't think you can much beat that using only core.
Kharne
09-18-03, 10:55 AM Very nice build indeed. You'd just have to switch power attack and sunder on the feats aquired list.
Ranthanas
09-18-03, 11:37 AM No, No, NO.

The EK switch isn't worth it.

(Bard 16/Blackguard 2/Barbarian (or fighter or ranger) 2 is a possibility if you want BAB +16)

You've just dropped one caster level off the build, but gained many skillpoints and also gained much music, including an extra point on Inspire Courage, an extra two people for Inspire Greatness and the Inspire Heroics ability. A good bargain by my reckoning.

As for the rest, what do you want this build for?

If he's an arena fighter, a Spiked Chain (EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm. Combat Reflexes) is probably your best choice for a weapon, whatever your class. If so, use as much strength boosting as you can, and also try to boost your size as much as possible (hitting Colossal isn't too hard, but may make you too much of a target). Polymorph Any Object helps here (and needn't last permenantly). Oh, and see if you can gather allies while in the arena.

If not, you are probably better off with either an archer or an enchanter build, or using a two handed sword for melee. Don't go TWF as you will be unable to use somatic gestures with a weapon in each hand, but can take a hand off a two handed sword or a bowstring.

Armour: The heaviest Mithral you can wear without losing any dexterity. (It will probably work out as being light, meaning Still Spell isn't necessary.). A Monk's Belt may be better value, in which case also buy a robe (as you would otherwise waste the slot). This really works well if you don't want Bracers of Archery.

Mithril Buckler. Allows you to cast spells freely with extra AC and isn't too bad the rest of the time.

Other: Necklace of Prayer Beads. Caster Level 20 is the highest you are going to need for dispellings... (If you can't work out how to activate it, you aren't trying)
Ring of Evasion: You've got a stunning reflex save.Why take damage from anything when you don't have to?

Spells: See how you can bypass saves. Illusions can be good here (until they interact with them) and Otto's Irresistable Dance does exactly what it says on the tin :-) (SR in a level 20 core arena is probably not going to be a factor)
catharz
09-18-03, 11:47 AM EK, as a rule, is really ****** for Bards.
SoulLord
09-18-03, 02:18 PM what im looking for mainly is damage done by this character.

I know its not the bards main area and the restrictions to the 3 main core books doesnt help much.

But something must be possible.

I think the highest im aiming for in bard levels is 9
for the insipre greatness the rest is pretty much free.

One thing ive been sugested is this
bard 9 fighter 4 assassin 7

maybe barbarian and blackguard pack more punch but its hard
to see them related to the bard

decent bab, weapon specialization, Sa damage

cl class lvl
1 bard 1
2 fighter 1
3 bard 2
4 fighter 2
5 bard 3
6 fighter 3
7 bard 4
8 fighter 4
9 bard 5
10 bard 6
11 bard 7
12 bard 8
13 bard 9
14 assassin 1
15 assassin 2
16 assassin 3
17 assassin 4
18 assassin 5
19 assassin 6
20 assassin 7

6 level feats 1 human feat 2 fighter feats 4d6 SA inspire greatness

do you think a different progression is in order?

SoulLord
kurgaz
09-19-03, 03:25 AM What sources are you aloud??

Can you use Dragon Magazines?

If so check out issue #311 for the Memory Smith or Battle Howler
SoulLord
09-19-03, 03:53 PM Unfortunately no only the 3 main core books are allowed

SoulLord

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SoulLord 09-17-03, 05:23 PM	im trying to build a high damage dealing bard dont care much if its by spells or by weapons Currently the restrictions set upon it are only the 3 main books. Bard must be the highest level class. at most 3 different classes(including prestige). the things ive been toying with are bard 10 sorcerer 10 .- summon lots of stuff and sing to it. bard 10 assassin 10.- nice SA damage plus hide in plain sight. bard10 blackguard 10.- this is the one i like best so far but not many people like the bard blackguard combination; ive checked already snow´s bard build but this is using only the main books thanks in advance for the ideas SoulLord
Boondoggle 09-17-03, 06:54 PM	[Edit: bleh, my memory sux]
Ranthanas 09-17-03, 07:22 PM	High melee damage is hardly the bard's forte. Also don't multiclass it with another spellcaster- you end up with two bad spellcasters and can only cast one spell per round. Fair damage, much versatility and an AC far higher than should be possible is the way to run a melee bard. (Weapon Finesse, Cat's Grace, Alter Self- Lizardfolk (+5AC), Rapier (enchanted for high damage), Greater Invisibility, Mirror Image, Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroism and playing silly buggers with your target's mind is the usual way to make a melee bard- clobber the fighter's will saves and skewer the mages) Bard 10/Rogue 10 would be my suggestion for actual high damage, but I think that Bard 20 is much more effective. If you want to do direct damage rather than ******* people off and whittling them down, invest in a few 4th level wands and many scrolls. Your Use Magic Device should be up to the challenge. (And remember that you have a much better BAB and AC than almost any mage will for using abilities with an attack roll) Hmm... Wand of Divine Favour, Wand of Divine Power, Scroll of Righteous Might, Wand of Bull's Strength, Wand of Constitution, Scroll of Shapechange and Wand of Enlarge combined with your own spells and it's clobbering time.
SoulLord 09-17-03, 07:33 PM	carring on with it besides maxing out use magic device what would be the best feats and skills for it to choose. If the ac is very high perhaps go for the two weapon tree? or if not so high perhaps the archery tree? rapid shot vs twf, itwf and gtwf also wouldnt it be better to go assassin instead of rogue? SoulLord
Kharne 09-17-03, 08:15 PM	EDIT: Oops...totally missed the comment about only being allowed the core 3 books. :P
nikademus 09-18-03, 03:31 AM	Hello, Perhaps you could go : Human Bard 10 / Blackguard 2 / Eldritch Knight 8. This gives you Caster Level 17 with the Bard,Divine Grace and a good Bab +16 (4 attacks). Feats 01) Cleave, improved sunder 03) Power attack 06) Point blank shot 09) Rapid shot 12) Precise shot 15) Extend spell 18) Craft wondrous items Nikademus
Boondoggle 09-18-03, 05:03 AM	Nice build, nik, I don't think you can much beat that using only core.
Kharne 09-18-03, 10:55 AM	Very nice build indeed. You'd just have to switch power attack and sunder on the feats aquired list.
Ranthanas 09-18-03, 11:37 AM	No, No, NO. The EK switch isn't worth it. (Bard 16/Blackguard 2/Barbarian (or fighter or ranger) 2 is a possibility if you want BAB +16) You've just dropped one caster level off the build, but gained many skillpoints and also gained much music, including an extra point on Inspire Courage, an extra two people for Inspire Greatness and the Inspire Heroics ability. A good bargain by my reckoning. As for the rest, what do you want this build for? If he's an arena fighter, a Spiked Chain (EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm. Combat Reflexes) is probably your best choice for a weapon, whatever your class. If so, use as much strength boosting as you can, and also try to boost your size as much as possible (hitting Colossal isn't too hard, but may make you too much of a target). Polymorph Any Object helps here (and needn't last permenantly). Oh, and see if you can gather allies while in the arena. If not, you are probably better off with either an archer or an enchanter build, or using a two handed sword for melee. Don't go TWF as you will be unable to use somatic gestures with a weapon in each hand, but can take a hand off a two handed sword or a bowstring. Armour: The heaviest Mithral you can wear without losing any dexterity. (It will probably work out as being light, meaning Still Spell isn't necessary.). A Monk's Belt may be better value, in which case also buy a robe (as you would otherwise waste the slot). This really works well if you don't want Bracers of Archery. Mithril Buckler. Allows you to cast spells freely with extra AC and isn't too bad the rest of the time. Other: Necklace of Prayer Beads. Caster Level 20 is the highest you are going to need for dispellings... (If you can't work out how to activate it, you aren't trying) Ring of Evasion: You've got a stunning reflex save.Why take damage from anything when you don't have to? Spells: See how you can bypass saves. Illusions can be good here (until they interact with them) and Otto's Irresistable Dance does exactly what it says on the tin :-) (SR in a level 20 core arena is probably not going to be a factor)
catharz 09-18-03, 11:47 AM	EK, as a rule, is really ****** for Bards.
SoulLord 09-18-03, 02:18 PM	what im looking for mainly is damage done by this character. I know its not the bards main area and the restrictions to the 3 main core books doesnt help much. But something must be possible. I think the highest im aiming for in bard levels is 9 for the insipre greatness the rest is pretty much free. One thing ive been sugested is this bard 9 fighter 4 assassin 7 maybe barbarian and blackguard pack more punch but its hard to see them related to the bard decent bab, weapon specialization, Sa damage cl class lvl 1 bard 1 2 fighter 1 3 bard 2 4 fighter 2 5 bard 3 6 fighter 3 7 bard 4 8 fighter 4 9 bard 5 10 bard 6 11 bard 7 12 bard 8 13 bard 9 14 assassin 1 15 assassin 2 16 assassin 3 17 assassin 4 18 assassin 5 19 assassin 6 20 assassin 7 6 level feats 1 human feat 2 fighter feats 4d6 SA inspire greatness do you think a different progression is in order? SoulLord
kurgaz 09-19-03, 03:25 AM	What sources are you aloud?? Can you use Dragon Magazines? If so check out issue #311 for the Memory Smith or Battle Howler
SoulLord 09-19-03, 03:53 PM	Unfortunately no only the 3 main core books are allowed SoulLord