Post/Author/DateTime	Post
alatariel 01-09-04, 10:28 AM	Hi, We are currently preparing an epic campaign. I need some advice in order to create an Epic bard 26th level or a mix between epic Bard and other prestige class. The character will be oriented 1) as a charm monster specialist...I need to find feats that make it difficult for monster to be not charmed. 2) as a companion buffer (bardic music)..I need to find feats that dble effect of the songs 3) Good two weapon combattant with reasonable damage (because D&D is still D&D) 4) Good tactical war commander (as I think the game will pass through big battle). I will be pleased to have your advice to get direction ====================================== Alatariel
catharz 01-09-04, 11:56 AM	I think your biggest challenge is to find a PrC you can gain epic feats with ;)
JosephKell 01-09-04, 01:16 PM	save your feats, don't take two-weapon fighting. Go Two-Weapon... or better yet, take your Longsword, War Horse, and play general. Pure Bard with Epic Leadership makes a lot of sense. Bard 10/War Chanter 10/Bard 11th to 16th is a good idea. You can then use the party's super BAB guy to copy its BAB to everyone (within 60 feet) while your orate. Imagine turning a bunch of level 4 warriors into +20 BAB guys. In epic Bard 10/Warchanter 10 is arguably the most powerful once you get Epic Leadership. Just have your cohort be a guy with lots of lots of BAB.
JosephKell 01-09-04, 02:23 PM	This is not for someone that is bad at logistics. Sorry about the screen stretch, if it is a problem, I can edit it (I set it up with {size=2] in the code so I can just change the the 2 to a 1). The General Bard 16/War Chanter 10 Requires Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus, Perform (Oratory) 6, nonlawful alignment. Bard caster 16. Attribute Distribution: 25 pt: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 17 28 pt: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 17 32 pt: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 18 Rolled: Cha 17+ (need 25 Cha by level 24), Int 13+, Con, Dex, Str Skills: Perform (oratory), Ride (cc), Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Intimidate, Bluff, Use Magic Device. Any Race Base Attack Fort Ref Will Caster -- Spells Per Day/Known -- clvl classes Bonus Save Save Save Level Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1st Brd 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 1 Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, 2/4 - - - - - - Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Combat Expertise 2nd Brd 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 2 3/5 0/2 - - - - - 3rd Brd 3 +2 +1 +3 +3 3 Inspire Competence, 3/6 1/3 - - - - - Weapon Focus (Longsword) 4th Brd 4 +3 +1 +4 +4 4 +1 Cha (18) 3/6 2/3 0/2 - - - - 5th Brd 5 +3 +1 +4 +4 5 3/6 3/3 1/3 - - - - 6th Brd 6 +4 +2 +5 +5 6 Suggestion, Leadership 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 7th Brd 6/Wch 1 +5 +4 +5 +5 6 Inspire Toughness, 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - War Chanter Music 8th Brd 6/Wch 2 +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 6 +1 Cha (19) 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 9th Brd 6/Wch 3 +7/+2 +5 +6 +6 6 Inspire Recklessness, 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - Negotiator 10th Brd 6/Wch 4 +8/+3 +6 +6 +6 6 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 11th Brd 6/Wch 5 +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 6 Combine Songs 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 12th Brd 6/Wch 6 +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 6 +1 Cha (20), Mounted Combat 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 13th Brd 6/Wch 7 +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 6 Inspire Awe 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 14th Brd 6/Wch 8 +12/+7/+2 +8 +7 +7 6 Singing Shout 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 15th Brd 6/Wch 9 +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8 6 Improved Toughness 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 16th Brd 6/Wch 10 +14/+9/+4 +9 +8 +8 6 Inspire Legion, +1 Cha (21) 3/6 3/4 2/3 - - - - 17th Brd 7/Wch 10 +15/+10/+5 +9 +8 +8 7 3/6 3/4 2/4 0/2 - - - 18th Brd 8/Wch 10 +16/+11/+6/+1 +9 +9 +9 8 Inspire Courage +2, 3/6 3/4 3/4 1/3 - - - Magical Aptitude 19th Brd 9/Wch 10 +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +9 +9 9 Inspire Greatness 3/6 3/4 3/4 2/3 - - - 20th Brd 10/Wch 10 +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10 10 +1 Cha (22) 3/6 3/4 3/4 2/4 0/2 - - 21st Brd 11/Wch 10 +18/+13/+8/+3 +10 +10 +10 11 Great Charisma* (+1 Cha - 23) 3/6 3/4 3/4 3/4 1/3 - - 22nd Brd 12/Wch 10 +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11 12 Song of Freedom 3/6 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/3 - - 23rd Brd 13/Wch 10 +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11 13 3/6 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/4 0/2 - 24th Brd 14/Wch 10 +19/+14/+9/+4 +12 +12 +12 14 Inspire Courage +3, +1 Cha (25), 4/6 3/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 1/3 - Epic Leadership 25th Brd 15/Wch 10 +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 15 Inspire Heroics 4/6 4/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/3 - 26th Brd 16/Wch 10 +20/+15/+10/+5 +13 +13 +13 16 4/6 4/5 4/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 0/2
Aramas 01-09-04, 03:05 PM	Instead of Bard 16 / War Chanter 10 use the Virtuoso from Song and Silence for your 6 epic levels (since the main drawback of the Virtuoso is the 1/2 BAB, which doesn't apply at epic levels) Now while the Virtuoso states that you gain access to all bardic music effects once you have te prerequisite Perform skill; I would rule that the Virtuoso levels stack with Bard levels to determine which effects you have access to, a la the Troubadour of the Stars in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Thus you still end up with a 16th level bard caster, with 16th level bardic music in addition to 10th level war chanter effects and 6th level virtuoso effects.
alatariel 01-09-04, 03:41 PM	thanks to all, it give me a pretty good idea of what to do & not to do :)It makes a lot of sense to go with warchanter as it gives better BAB while Bardic music is still improving. I specially like the effect of taking the best BAB of the group and give it to others players or NPC. what do you suggest as Cohorte ? PS: I will finish the Character and then post it to you for comment
JosephKell 01-09-04, 04:50 PM	If you are planning on war, War Chanter IS the way to go, Inspire Legion can turn you weak 6th and 7th level warriors into 6 and 7 HD guys with an Attack of +22/+17/+12/+7 plus their Strength. And you can combine your Songs so you can can Inspire Courage (another +3). Also consider purchasing a Standard and have a high HD follower carry it (you don't want the standard carrier to die!). If you use 32 point buy, switch Ranged Inspiration for Great Charisma. Doubling all Bardic Music (and probably War Chanter) ranges. double radius = 4 times the area. Good Cohorts: 1. Obvious Choice: Body Guard. Pure BAB, Interdicts foes. Use this guys BAB to copy it to his BAB to everyone else within range of your. Assuming you are Neutral Good. Fighter/Purple Dragon Knight makes sense... Use your cohorts additional buffs to enhance your honor guard. 2. Immediate Defensive Caster: Defense Sorcerer (you have an army to attack, but you need someone to keep people from porting in and assassinating you). Dimensional Anchor, Wall of Force... There should be enough spells known for him or her to take Divinations 3. Symbol Wizard: With enough symbol spells, you should be save... sort of. Keep them on your armor (bards can wear armor) and activate them by touch (if they are attuned to you, your symbol wizard, 4. A Gish. Sort of a combined Option 1 and 2. Ftr 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 5/EK 9/Archmage 1-4 (20th level arcane caster with +23/+18/+13/+8 attack bonus). Followers: Level 1: 30% Warriors, 70% Commoners. You need labors to generate revenue (i.e. farm) to pay for food/warriors. Level 2-4: Warriors Level 5: Experts (craftsmen of weapons and armor) Level 6: Warrior Honor guard Level 7+: Warmages (count as 2 levels higher for followers, so you are looking at like 3 level 5 Warmages and 1 level 6...) You have to be good to the campaign world so you can further increase your Leadership score. Eventually you want to get your own land (I prefer a Demiplane) so you can take Legendary Commander and get 10 times the forces. Once you get Legendary Commander just have all your level 1 followers be Commoners. This is where D&D starts to stop being a game, and turns into something of a sport... Roleplaying: Be nice to your people, you can't make them love you more than anyone else. Give them a reason to love you. Share the wealth, be kind. Protect them. Honor guard: It is even more important to be generous with them, they are the closest ones to you, so give them magic, titles, and honor. They may be fragile and weak compared to you, but they keep foes at bay. Also, having fully stocked (and matching) knights flanking you as you enter somewhere makes a big impression, and will probably get you a bonus on charisma checks (Intimidate at the least). --Weapons: +2 Longsword, +2 Full-Plate, +2 Heavy Steel Shield Soldiers: Don't neglect them, they are your fist. You have to mix up the combination of weapons. Good Combinations: -Pikeman: Longspear, Shortsword, Studded Leather (or Scale Mail if you can afford it) -Longswordman: Longsword, heavy shield, Scale Mail -Archers: Longbow, Shortsword, Leather -Cavaliery: Lance, War Horse, Breastplate, Heavy Shield, Longsword, Military Saddle, Studded Leather Barding -Sappers (expert/warriors): Heavy Pick, Studded Leather, a few everburning torches (not 1 each, maybe 1 per four), 1 wheelbarrow per 4. These are the guys that bring down walls by tunneling under. If you haven't figured it out yet, I've waged a war campaign... the other guys just messed around with longsword warriors, and I took them apart with pikeman. If you use Miniatures, I suggest measuring out squads of various shapes: Pikemen - Line 10 by 2 Archers - 5 by 4 Longswordmen - 5 by 2 (they are the guys that seal holes in pikelines until additional pikemen can be brought up) Or... for a Hepolite style, ask the DM if you can invent an Exotic Longspear can can only be used 10 feet away in front of you. Hepolites: Tower Shield, Scale Mail, Shortsword two different patterns: 10x20 (put an x in every 2nd place and 5x20. At a command Hepolite lines collapse into 5 rows from 10. It is literally a wall pikes behind shields. Tabards: I suggest designing your own and buying a tabard for each soldier.
alatariel 01-10-04, 03:33 AM	thanks JosephKell. it looks like you already went through all of this ! Will keep you posted when finished