Bard Gish [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Bard Gish [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crabowlands
11-27-06, 02:28 AM Hey everyone, I'm starting a game in the next couple of days and decided on trying out a Bard Gish, just because if nothing else, it sounds interesting, plus in concept it sounds powerful as well, which is always a big plus. I found a relatively simple build that gives great BAB and CL, but I was just wondering if there was an even better build. More importantly than that though, I have -zero- idea what feats to use, as I've never played a Bard or a Gish, so any help there would be appreciated.

We're starting at level 3, and this is the build I'm going with..

Bard2/Fighter1/Bard6/Sublime Chord 2/Eldritch Knight 9

Simple and to the point. Oh, I'm stuck being human and good aligned, and no flaws are allowed either. Any help would be appreciated and I'll help with any questions you guys may have.

Thanks a lot.
Phoenix00
11-27-06, 02:33 AM Take one level of eldritch knight before sublime chord. That way you get all 10 levels of sublime casting done before lvl 20.
X-Codes
11-27-06, 02:46 AM Books?
Surreal
11-27-06, 02:47 AM You can't take Eldritch Knight before SC since the wording on EK says to add the levels to a spellcasting class you were in before adding EK, not "EK level".
X-Codes
11-27-06, 02:57 AM You can't take Eldritch Knight before SC since the wording on EK says to add the levels to a spellcasting class you were in before adding EK, not "EK level".
...and I'm pretty certain you can do something much better than this if you happen to have ToB.
Crabowlands
11-27-06, 03:06 AM Ah, fair enough. I wasn't 100% certain of when to take what levels. All I saw was that the build was Bard 8/Fighter 1/SC2/EK9, I wasn't sure what order it was actually in.

Oh, and sorry, all books are allowed, though some things will be have to be okayed by the DM, since he's a COer too and knows how some things can be abused and the like.
Phoenix00
11-27-06, 03:06 AM Use Knight Phantom or A Champion/Spellsword. Whatever :)
X-Codes
11-27-06, 03:22 AM Sublime Phoenix Mage. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10178720&postcount=424)

This is my favorite Bardic Gish.

The other is a much simpler Bard 8/Paladin 2/Sublime Chord 2/Eldrich Knight 8. +17 BAB and 9th level spells with a 17th CL. Virtually all non-ToB Bardic Gishes are variations on this build. In fact, with Complete Mage out, you can do Bard 4/Paladin 2/Lyric Thaumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 3.
Crabowlands
11-27-06, 03:37 AM How do you get around the fact that Paladins have to be LG and Bards can't be Lawful? Just find an IC reason for it? Perhaps just use one of the million alternate Paladins out there? I really like the concept, just seems like it's hard to pull off IC-wise. What kind of feats would you use with that build?
X-Codes
11-27-06, 03:41 AM How do you get around the fact that Paladins have to be LG and Bards can't be Lawful? Just find an IC reason for it? Perhaps just use one of the million alternate Paladins out there? I really like the concept, just seems like it's hard to pull off IC-wise. What kind of feats would you use with that build?
Devoted Performer, Complete Adventurer. It allows you to be a LG Bard and also allows free multiclassing, among other minor benefits.

As for feats, you have two others tied up in pre-reqs, from there you can get stuff like Extend Spell, Snowflake Wardance, Divine Might, and Sacred Healing... just play up the Charisma synergy.
Crabowlands
11-27-06, 03:53 AM Alright, so I just gave everything a glance over, and I love the proposed build you gave, and I think that's the way I'm going to go. It seems like it works really well for the custom campaign setting my DM put together, and the Charisma synergy does seem really nuts. Thanks a lot, X-Codes, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crabowlands 11-27-06, 02:28 AM	Hey everyone, I'm starting a game in the next couple of days and decided on trying out a Bard Gish, just because if nothing else, it sounds interesting, plus in concept it sounds powerful as well, which is always a big plus. I found a relatively simple build that gives great BAB and CL, but I was just wondering if there was an even better build. More importantly than that though, I have -zero- idea what feats to use, as I've never played a Bard or a Gish, so any help there would be appreciated. We're starting at level 3, and this is the build I'm going with.. Bard2/Fighter1/Bard6/Sublime Chord 2/Eldritch Knight 9 Simple and to the point. Oh, I'm stuck being human and good aligned, and no flaws are allowed either. Any help would be appreciated and I'll help with any questions you guys may have. Thanks a lot.
Phoenix00 11-27-06, 02:33 AM	Take one level of eldritch knight before sublime chord. That way you get all 10 levels of sublime casting done before lvl 20.
X-Codes 11-27-06, 02:46 AM	Books?
Surreal 11-27-06, 02:47 AM	You can't take Eldritch Knight before SC since the wording on EK says to add the levels to a spellcasting class you were in before adding EK, not "EK level".
X-Codes 11-27-06, 02:57 AM	You can't take Eldritch Knight before SC since the wording on EK says to add the levels to a spellcasting class you were in before adding EK, not "EK level". ...and I'm pretty certain you can do something much better than this if you happen to have ToB.
Crabowlands 11-27-06, 03:06 AM	Ah, fair enough. I wasn't 100% certain of when to take what levels. All I saw was that the build was Bard 8/Fighter 1/SC2/EK9, I wasn't sure what order it was actually in. Oh, and sorry, all books are allowed, though some things will be have to be okayed by the DM, since he's a COer too and knows how some things can be abused and the like.
Phoenix00 11-27-06, 03:06 AM	Use Knight Phantom or A Champion/Spellsword. Whatever :)
X-Codes 11-27-06, 03:22 AM	Sublime Phoenix Mage. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10178720&postcount=424) This is my favorite Bardic Gish. The other is a much simpler Bard 8/Paladin 2/Sublime Chord 2/Eldrich Knight 8. +17 BAB and 9th level spells with a 17th CL. Virtually all non-ToB Bardic Gishes are variations on this build. In fact, with Complete Mage out, you can do Bard 4/Paladin 2/Lyric Thaumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 3.
Crabowlands 11-27-06, 03:37 AM	How do you get around the fact that Paladins have to be LG and Bards can't be Lawful? Just find an IC reason for it? Perhaps just use one of the million alternate Paladins out there? I really like the concept, just seems like it's hard to pull off IC-wise. What kind of feats would you use with that build?
X-Codes 11-27-06, 03:41 AM	How do you get around the fact that Paladins have to be LG and Bards can't be Lawful? Just find an IC reason for it? Perhaps just use one of the million alternate Paladins out there? I really like the concept, just seems like it's hard to pull off IC-wise. What kind of feats would you use with that build? Devoted Performer, Complete Adventurer. It allows you to be a LG Bard and also allows free multiclassing, among other minor benefits. As for feats, you have two others tied up in pre-reqs, from there you can get stuff like Extend Spell, Snowflake Wardance, Divine Might, and Sacred Healing... just play up the Charisma synergy.
Crabowlands 11-27-06, 03:53 AM	Alright, so I just gave everything a glance over, and I love the proposed build you gave, and I think that's the way I'm going to go. It seems like it works really well for the custom campaign setting my DM put together, and the Charisma synergy does seem really nuts. Thanks a lot, X-Codes, that's exactly what I was looking for.