Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dvryce84 01-16-06, 03:34 AM	I was getting ready to start in a new campaign soon and it is quite a good deal larger than the usual group I play in at 7 players total counting myself and after our first meeting I realized out of everybody meeting there the planned characters were a warmage, a cleric/meldshaper (the tank of the party), a rogue/invisible blade/master thrower, a vampire spawn character (fits into the campaign world, he is sort of a historian/warrior), a dervish, and an archer/dread commando/Justice of the Weald and Woe. And I was thinking wow, we really don't have a supporting caster role and hey I have never played a bard, to date, and one could be really useful in a party of this size. So I thought of going the Sublime Chord route, but then I remembered the war weaver and it seemed like it was made exactly for this sort of situation. So I was wondering what people thought of this idea and if it was a good one what build they would go for. Thanks. Edit: is that a bit better, it was quite late when I wrote this and I think I rambled quite a bit. :Edit
colm_l 01-16-06, 10:36 AM	Could you split up your post a little please - it's quite hard to read. That said- the standard build for this is Changeling Bard 8/recaster 1/war weaver 1/Sublime Chord 2/War Weaver 2-5/recaster 2-5.
Zathyr 01-17-06, 01:37 AM	I'll second the war weaver/recaster combo. It's crazy-flexible. Recaster is in Races of Eberron.
Esponer 01-17-06, 10:24 AM	Where's War Weaver?
Todd 01-17-06, 10:30 AM	I'll second that Recaster build ... but if changling or Eberron stuff isn't allowed then you can find other ways to tweak things. What I might do instead in that case might be something like: Bard 6 / Marshal 1 / Sand Shaper 1 / War Weaver 1 / Bard 7 / Sublime Chord 2 / War Weaver 2-5 / Sand Shaper 2-5 Sand Shaper gives you a TON of nice spells with that first level dip .. and almost all the good individual buff spells. It also has the physical buffs Bear's/Bull's/Cat's as 1st level spells. It's a nice addition to any buff build. I slipped Marshal in there for either the bump to Cha checks or the bump to Spellcaster level checks ... and those are things that the whole party will benefit from too. However it's easy enough to take out if you want the BAB & extra spells of Bard 8.
colm_l 01-17-06, 11:23 AM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050407b&page=3
dog45 01-17-06, 11:46 AM	To maximize the usefulness of the War Weaver, you really need to get some Druid and Cleric spells in the weave. Unfortunately, a straight cleric or druid won't qualify for it. But, if you can use the Spellcaster generic class from Unearthed Arcana, you can do some pretty cool things with the class. Take Spellcaster levels, choosing to be an arcane caster that is Intelligence based. The beauty of this class is that even though you count as an arcane caster you can pick your spells known from the sorceror/wizard, cleric and druid spell lists. The build I made was Spellcaster 5/ Combat Medic 5/War Weaver 5. You could drop the last level of Combat Medic if you wanted to though. Here's the list of spells I came up with for you to drop through your weave. The Weave Bomb - (4 spells stored in weave) Beastland Ferocity Delay Death Spell Resistance True Seeing Your first round of combat you drop those as a move action, so you grab your rod of Lesser Quicken and quicken cast Haste and regular cast Sheltered Vitality. Your second round of combat you quicken cast Living Death and Death Ward. Your third round of combat you quicken cast Blindsight and Vigor, Greater. After that, just make sure Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity don't get Dispelled. Perhaps have a readied action to cast Delay Death through your weave if it gets dispelled. But now, after 3 rounds, this is what your party has. Immunity to - - Death Spells - Magical Death Effects - Energy Drain - Negative Energy Effects - Fatigue - Exhaustion - Ability Damage - Ability Drain - Death from HP loss - Sneak Attack / Critical Hits Also has - - +4 STR - -4 CHA - SR 12 + your Caster Level - True Seeing - Hasted - Blindsight 30 ft - Fast Healing 4 (or Fast Healing 14 depending on how Augment Healing interacts with the Vigor spells and if you took it ) After the fights over, cast Heal a few times through the weave and everyone should be fine. Except for the vampire spawn. He might not like having Heal cast on him. ;)
Caelic 01-17-06, 04:22 PM	*Sniff* It's always nice to hear that one of your builds has become "the standard." ;) One trick that needs to be mentioned in conjunction with the WW/Recaster combo, though--and this is one for which I can't claim credit--is the ability to select Heal as a level 5 spell from the Adept spell list. This is absolutely key, since it allows the character to cast Heal through his tapestry. Mass Heal as a level 5 spell doesn't suck.
Zathyr 01-17-06, 07:14 PM	It's a fine build - simple, powerful, flexible. Beats the pants off my convoluted attempts to mix War Weaver (from Heros of Battle, btw) with Geomancer 6 and as many dual-progression levels as I could squeeze in (which I think the best I managed was 3). Most of the builds hit level 9 divine spells eventually and I actually managed to wind up with 6th and 9th level spells a couple of different ways, which isn't bad I suppose. One of my oddest attempts had level 8 arcane spells without having any lvl 3 arcane spells.. Still using Geomancer to cast divine spells in the weave is a potentially handy trick. It'd be great in a gestalt game. But Caelic's build has the advantage of being simpler, more focused, and far more playable in the 5-15 level range.
dvryce84 01-21-06, 03:07 AM	I had not thought of using the recaster, I was just planning on using a modified version of the gish build and while I would have a much worse bab, I figured it would be nice to buff everyone when I buff myself. But the recaster has other possibilities. How would you get access to the adept's heal spell? I read the spellcaster version of a great use of these 2 prc, but unfortunately my dm isn't fond of the generic classes, and I think my group is more offense orriented (except for the dwarven cleric/meldshaper). When I told them I could give all of them a +7 to att and dam, they were very pleased. So, I think the bard would be enjoyed by all. Also, what feats and spell selection would you recommend for a build such as this? Thanks edit: I just went back and reread the recaster and realized the first time I read the Expanded Knowledge ability I had misread it and did not realize it allowed access to any and all spell lists. That makes it sooo much better:edit
X-Codes 01-21-06, 03:55 AM	No need for Bard IMO. Theres a Sor/Wiz spell called Greater Heroism that gives a +4 morale to most rolls (level 4 or 5 and affects the entire party). That beats the stuffing out of any Bard that doesn't truly specialize in Bardic Music. Also, keep a very close eye on that "Adept has level 5 Heal." That is abusable in so many ways.
Caelic 01-21-06, 10:59 AM	Small correction: Greater Heroism is a level 6 Sorceror/Wizard spell. It's only a 5th level Bard spell, and thus castable through the tapestry. This is one of the reasons that Bard/SC is my preferred base for this build, rather than Wizard.
EvilVegan 01-21-06, 12:34 PM	If I wanted to be the ultimate gestalt bard buffer. . . what should I throw on the other "side"? cleric, druid, wizard, wha?