Bard Substitution Levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Substitution Levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tweedledope
09-27-05, 01:11 PM So, I'm about to start to play my first bard and I need to know what race to pick (besides human). I was thinking of the racial substitution levels but, I don't know which is the most optimal choice for me to take.

Also, as a side note, my DM gives Half-Elves a +2 to Dex and the ability to use Charm (as the spell at 1/2 character level) 3/day to offset their rather blandness.

-=Tweedledope=-
Mr. Dog
09-27-05, 01:18 PM Half-elf bard. Master of diplomacy. Ownzor the enemy.

Take the half-elf bard racial sub at 1st. Never look back.
PonTelon
09-27-05, 01:28 PM Half-elf bard. Master of diplomacy. Ownzor the enemy.

Take the half-elf bard racial sub at 1st. Never look back.
I second that. Soothing Voice is just too good of an ability to pass up.
Tweedledope
09-27-05, 03:07 PM I second that. Soothing Voice is just too good of an ability to pass up.
I don't have my books with me at the moment so do you mind explaining exactly what the Half-Elf sub levels get me?
Blade2718
09-27-05, 03:14 PM They let you bypass combat.
Mr. Dog
09-27-05, 03:45 PM You give up countersong to get a Calm Emotions effect. It takes up a use of bardic music. The DC of their will save is set by a diplomacy check.

That's it in a nutshell. Diplomacy +38 = Calm Balor. :D
Phaxi
09-27-05, 04:14 PM at level 2 for instance:

Half elf bard sub level 1: complementary insight
Marshal 1: minor aura: motivate charisma, skill focus (diplomacy)

ranks = 5 diplomacy
assuming 18 cha = +4
motivate charisma = +4
sense motive 5 = +3
bluff 5 = +3
knowledge (nobility) 5 = +3
skill focus = +3
half-elf racial bonus = +2
---------
diplomacy +27

pretty high DC for a level 2 character, if you get some flaws and take negotiator and harem trained (or some other diplo-boosters) you can get it even higher.
Tweedledope
09-27-05, 06:01 PM This all looks real nice and it seems like it could get pretty frickin' crazy if I start adding in some Sacred Vows...not that that's where I want my character to go, I'm just saying that we could have ridiculous Diplomacy checks at low levels.
Caelic
09-27-05, 06:13 PM You don't need sacred vows to have ridiculous Diplomacy checks with the half-elven Diplomonster.

At level 3, the character's Diplomacy check--sans items, spells, or other enhancers--is +30. Add in a Friendly Face spell and a masterwork tool, and it's a 37.

What level 3 enemy can make a (minimum) DC 38 Will save?
X-Codes
09-27-05, 09:43 PM ...and compare this to the relative worthlessness of Countersong until the Reactive Countersong Epic Feat...

If memory serves, Gnomes also get some pretty cool bard sub levels.
ed209
09-28-05, 11:33 PM at level 2 for instance:

Half elf bard sub level 1: complementary insight
Marshal 1: minor aura: motivate charisma, skill focus (diplomacy)

ranks = 5 diplomacy
assuming 18 cha = +4
motivate charisma = +4
sense motive 5 = +3
bluff 5 = +3
knowledge (nobility) 5 = +3
skill focus = +3
half-elf racial bonus = +2
---------
diplomacy +27

pretty high DC for a level 2 character, if you get some flaws and take negotiator and harem trained (or some other diplo-boosters) you can get it even higher.
... the items above in bold, how are they +3 instead of +2? I've just looked at the PHB, the SRD, the FAQ, the errata, and found nothing about those bonuses being anything but +2...
Lord Schpungus
09-28-05, 11:39 PM Complementary Insight gives you a +3 for synergy instead of a +2.
ed209
09-29-05, 01:03 AM Complementary Insight gives you a +3 for synergy instead of a +2.
... Ah! Thank you...
Delvor
10-01-05, 04:14 PM What book is the bard stuff In?
Phaxi
10-01-05, 06:33 PM What book is the bard stuff In?

What bard stuff? The half-elf racial substitution level and complementary insight feat is from Races of Destiny.
Delvor
10-02-05, 03:11 PM Sorry then half elf stuff. Thanks Races of destiny you say? Very good
X-Codes
10-02-05, 03:34 PM Ah, here it is. Gnome Bards get Phantasmal Killer. They also get Counter Fear, a handy little ability that replaces Will saves against Fear effects with a Perform Check. They also get Inspire Defiance which gives a +2 against mind-affecting and illusions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tweedledope 09-27-05, 01:11 PM	So, I'm about to start to play my first bard and I need to know what race to pick (besides human). I was thinking of the racial substitution levels but, I don't know which is the most optimal choice for me to take. Also, as a side note, my DM gives Half-Elves a +2 to Dex and the ability to use Charm (as the spell at 1/2 character level) 3/day to offset their rather blandness. -=Tweedledope=-
Mr. Dog 09-27-05, 01:18 PM	Half-elf bard. Master of diplomacy. Ownzor the enemy. Take the half-elf bard racial sub at 1st. Never look back.
PonTelon 09-27-05, 01:28 PM	Half-elf bard. Master of diplomacy. Ownzor the enemy. Take the half-elf bard racial sub at 1st. Never look back. I second that. Soothing Voice is just too good of an ability to pass up.
Tweedledope 09-27-05, 03:07 PM	I second that. Soothing Voice is just too good of an ability to pass up. I don't have my books with me at the moment so do you mind explaining exactly what the Half-Elf sub levels get me?
Blade2718 09-27-05, 03:14 PM	They let you bypass combat.
Mr. Dog 09-27-05, 03:45 PM	You give up countersong to get a Calm Emotions effect. It takes up a use of bardic music. The DC of their will save is set by a diplomacy check. That's it in a nutshell. Diplomacy +38 = Calm Balor. :D
Phaxi 09-27-05, 04:14 PM	at level 2 for instance: Half elf bard sub level 1: complementary insight Marshal 1: minor aura: motivate charisma, skill focus (diplomacy) ranks = 5 diplomacy assuming 18 cha = +4 motivate charisma = +4 sense motive 5 = +3 bluff 5 = +3 knowledge (nobility) 5 = +3 skill focus = +3 half-elf racial bonus = +2 --------- diplomacy +27 pretty high DC for a level 2 character, if you get some flaws and take negotiator and harem trained (or some other diplo-boosters) you can get it even higher.
Tweedledope 09-27-05, 06:01 PM	This all looks real nice and it seems like it could get pretty frickin' crazy if I start adding in some Sacred Vows...not that that's where I want my character to go, I'm just saying that we could have ridiculous Diplomacy checks at low levels.
Caelic 09-27-05, 06:13 PM	You don't need sacred vows to have ridiculous Diplomacy checks with the half-elven Diplomonster. At level 3, the character's Diplomacy check--sans items, spells, or other enhancers--is +30. Add in a Friendly Face spell and a masterwork tool, and it's a 37. What level 3 enemy can make a (minimum) DC 38 Will save?
X-Codes 09-27-05, 09:43 PM	...and compare this to the relative worthlessness of Countersong until the Reactive Countersong Epic Feat... If memory serves, Gnomes also get some pretty cool bard sub levels.
ed209 09-28-05, 11:33 PM	at level 2 for instance: Half elf bard sub level 1: complementary insight Marshal 1: minor aura: motivate charisma, skill focus (diplomacy) ranks = 5 diplomacy assuming 18 cha = +4 motivate charisma = +4 sense motive 5 = +3 bluff 5 = +3 knowledge (nobility) 5 = +3 skill focus = +3 half-elf racial bonus = +2 --------- diplomacy +27 pretty high DC for a level 2 character, if you get some flaws and take negotiator and harem trained (or some other diplo-boosters) you can get it even higher. ... the items above in bold, how are they +3 instead of +2? I've just looked at the PHB, the SRD, the FAQ, the errata, and found nothing about those bonuses being anything but +2...
Lord Schpungus 09-28-05, 11:39 PM	Complementary Insight gives you a +3 for synergy instead of a +2.
ed209 09-29-05, 01:03 AM	Complementary Insight gives you a +3 for synergy instead of a +2. ... Ah! Thank you...
Delvor 10-01-05, 04:14 PM	What book is the bard stuff In?
Phaxi 10-01-05, 06:33 PM	What book is the bard stuff In? What bard stuff? The half-elf racial substitution level and complementary insight feat is from Races of Destiny.
Delvor 10-02-05, 03:11 PM	Sorry then half elf stuff. Thanks Races of destiny you say? Very good
X-Codes 10-02-05, 03:34 PM	Ah, here it is. Gnome Bards get Phantasmal Killer. They also get Counter Fear, a handy little ability that replaces Will saves against Fear effects with a Perform Check. They also get Inspire Defiance which gives a +2 against mind-affecting and illusions.