Bard Trickster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard Trickster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mikkelibob
02-20-06, 02:40 PM I'm weighing two options.

Option I:
Rogue 1 / Bard 5 / DSM 3 / AT X
Hu: silent
1st: TWF
3rd: WF(Dagger)
6th: extra music
9th: twin (+4)
12th: metamagic song
Coming into AT (after 9th): Fort: 0+1+1 / Ref: 2+4+3 / Will: 0+4+3 / BAB +5

The idea here is to use Daggerspell Mage to get into Arcane Trickster. I realize that I could actually get into DSM a level earlier with practiced spellcaster, but that means sacrificing a feat for 1 BAB (DSM 4 is a pretty blank level). At least the extra level of Bard gets another song per day. Plus feats are kida tight. Long term, however, practiced spellcaster will make up for the 2 dead levels from Rogue and DSM1.
A slightly different tact is to use metamagic song to power persistent spell.

Option II:
Rogue 3 / Bard 7 / AT X
Coming into AT (after 10th): Fort 0+2 / Ref 2+5 /Will 5 / BAB +7
Weirdly this looks less optimized (more core anyway), but it only is 1 level behind the first option. It also gives more bard songs (including suggestion) and a better BAB. Omitting DSM means 2 open feats. Which means non-human is possibile (maybe halfling for better ranged touch, and the 3rd lvl rogue subsitution level). There are a multitude of useful feats to chose from, like Subsonics, Snowflake Wardance.

I realize that Rogue 1 / Bard 7 / [class or prestige with sneak would] do the job, but I hate throwing a feat down the drain, and in general am opposed to really minor dips into a prestige class.

Questions:
1. which looks better
2. which would be more fun to play from 1st lvl
3. am I right in concluding metamagic song is capable of powering persistent spell?
4. I know that bard had decipher script so no problems there, but I am unclear on how rogue/wizard tricksters get the 7 ranks. Can you take decipher script once you have a rogue level as avcross class skill?
LightAcolyte
02-20-06, 03:18 PM If I were going Arcane Trickster, I would personally much rather have this build:
Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Prestige Bard 2/Arcane Trickster 10. Thus, you get the bard-unique spells, the Int-Synergy, the much better sor/wiz spell list (in general, and faster progression than the bard). Granted, it picks up the actual bard-flavor much later, but there is just so much more to work with. If you aren't going to stick with bard, its abilities won't get their full flavor and it will inevitably be a sub-optimal choice. Anyway, just my opinion.
beestje
02-20-06, 03:30 PM If you prever a more "optimized" build, maybe you would like:
rogue 1/ bard 4/ dsm 5/ sublime chord 1/ dsm 5/ AT 4

One problem with bards is that they don't have many touch spells that can be used with sneak attack. On the other hand flavourwise I think this is a fun build to play.
Using Metamagic song isn't a great idea to power persistent spell, because its capped to the maximum spell level you can cast, so at best you would be able to make a 0-level spell persistent. That doesn't sound great for 3 feats.

Greetz,
B

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mikkelibob 02-20-06, 02:40 PM	I'm weighing two options. Option I: Rogue 1 / Bard 5 / DSM 3 / AT X Hu: silent 1st: TWF 3rd: WF(Dagger) 6th: extra music 9th: twin (+4) 12th: metamagic song Coming into AT (after 9th): Fort: 0+1+1 / Ref: 2+4+3 / Will: 0+4+3 / BAB +5 The idea here is to use Daggerspell Mage to get into Arcane Trickster. I realize that I could actually get into DSM a level earlier with practiced spellcaster, but that means sacrificing a feat for 1 BAB (DSM 4 is a pretty blank level). At least the extra level of Bard gets another song per day. Plus feats are kida tight. Long term, however, practiced spellcaster will make up for the 2 dead levels from Rogue and DSM1. A slightly different tact is to use metamagic song to power persistent spell. Option II: Rogue 3 / Bard 7 / AT X Coming into AT (after 10th): Fort 0+2 / Ref 2+5 /Will 5 / BAB +7 Weirdly this looks less optimized (more core anyway), but it only is 1 level behind the first option. It also gives more bard songs (including suggestion) and a better BAB. Omitting DSM means 2 open feats. Which means non-human is possibile (maybe halfling for better ranged touch, and the 3rd lvl rogue subsitution level). There are a multitude of useful feats to chose from, like Subsonics, Snowflake Wardance. I realize that Rogue 1 / Bard 7 / [class or prestige with sneak would] do the job, but I hate throwing a feat down the drain, and in general am opposed to really minor dips into a prestige class. Questions: 1. which looks better 2. which would be more fun to play from 1st lvl 3. am I right in concluding metamagic song is capable of powering persistent spell? 4. I know that bard had decipher script so no problems there, but I am unclear on how rogue/wizard tricksters get the 7 ranks. Can you take decipher script once you have a rogue level as avcross class skill?
LightAcolyte 02-20-06, 03:18 PM	If I were going Arcane Trickster, I would personally much rather have this build: Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Prestige Bard 2/Arcane Trickster 10. Thus, you get the bard-unique spells, the Int-Synergy, the much better sor/wiz spell list (in general, and faster progression than the bard). Granted, it picks up the actual bard-flavor much later, but there is just so much more to work with. If you aren't going to stick with bard, its abilities won't get their full flavor and it will inevitably be a sub-optimal choice. Anyway, just my opinion.
beestje 02-20-06, 03:30 PM	If you prever a more "optimized" build, maybe you would like: rogue 1/ bard 4/ dsm 5/ sublime chord 1/ dsm 5/ AT 4 One problem with bards is that they don't have many touch spells that can be used with sneak attack. On the other hand flavourwise I think this is a fun build to play. Using Metamagic song isn't a great idea to power persistent spell, because its capped to the maximum spell level you can cast, so at best you would be able to make a 0-level spell persistent. That doesn't sound great for 3 feats. Greetz, B