Bard: Pimp my Courage! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard: Pimp my Courage! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Haplo781
02-01-07, 11:40 PM How can a Bard 4 give the biggest combat bonuses with Inspire Courage? So far, I have:

Song of the Heart (+1 to bonuses.)
Masterwork Horn (+1 to attack, damage, and fear saves, no bonus on charm saves.)
Harmony (Changes base bonus to +2 atk/dmg and +4 on charm/fear saves)
Inspirational Boost (+1 to bonuses.)

That's a total of 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = +5 on attack and damage, and 4 + 1 + 1 + 1 = +7 on fear saves, with no bonus on charm.
Also, I have an enchanted mouthpiece that lets me use Animate Instrument 1/day on my horn via command word, so I can have it play itself for 4 minutes (40 rounds,) leaving me with both hands free to fight.
So, have I missed anything?
LogicNinja
02-01-07, 11:41 PM MW Horn makes Inspire Courage last one round. The MW Drum just adds +1 damage, but doesn't reduce the duration.

The Words of Creation feat from the BoED lets you double your base Inspire Courage bonus for 3d4 subdual damage to you.
FruitOfTheShroom
02-01-07, 11:47 PM The Words of Creation feat is by far one of the best tools for a good bard focusing on insprire courage. Take it, love it.
Haplo781
02-01-07, 11:54 PM Actually, it lasts as long as I keep playing and one round after. Animate Instrument means I can let it play itself, thus negating that drawback.

I know about WoC, but I haven't come across the primal writings (yet,) and I need to take Melodic Casting at 6th to qualify for Lyric Thaumaturge. Actually, my feat slots are tied up until lvl. 15 unless I change my PrC choices.
Quaz_and_Wally
02-02-07, 12:11 AM Sorry, but where is the Masterwork Horn, and Harmonize from?
Haplo781
02-02-07, 12:25 AM Masterwork Horn is in CAdventurer. Harmony comes from Player's Guide to Faerūn.
Groz
02-02-07, 12:38 AM Words of Creation - it just DOUBLES your bardic inspire courage.

You can get insane numbers that way, because all thigs add before the doubling happens. Easily +4 at 4th level, maybe +6.
Haplo781
02-02-07, 12:53 AM Wait, it doubles AFTER bonuses? That changes things.
Good thing my DM is allowing the PHB II- I just realized I can use feat retraining to swap something for it. Probably Extra Music.
LogicNinja
02-02-07, 12:57 AM No, no, it doesn't double it after bonuses. It doubles it before (they provide a table in the BoED: +1 becomes +2, +2 becomes +4, and so on, referring to the base Inspire Courage values)--which means it gives +1 to +4, more than most other things.
Quaz_and_Wally
02-02-07, 12:59 AM Masterwork Horn is in CAdventurer. Harmony comes from Player's Guide to Faerūn.

Thank you very much!

On a more related note, I've played an Exalted bard with words of creation, and my GM wouldn't allow stuff from eberron or Faerun. But even at level 8, a +6 bonus on attack and damage made everyone love me. If your GM allows all this stuff, then your party should be very happy.
Tytalus
02-02-07, 02:06 AM Note that since SC came out, Harmony does no longer exist - it has been replaced by Inspirational Boost.

No, no, it doesn't double it after bonuses. It doubles it before (they provide a table in the BoED: +1 becomes +2, +2 becomes +4, and so on, referring to the base Inspire Courage values)--which means it gives +1 to +4, more than most other things.

This is not entirely clear as the example progression clearly does not take into account any other bonus but the base bonus; WotC Customer Service has judged it to be a DM's call, for what it's worth. It's also disputed whether or not the feat applies when instruments are used.

MW Horn makes Inspire Courage last one round. The MW Drum just adds +1 damage, but doesn't reduce the duration.

Another possible reading of the MW horn description is that only the extra +1 the horn confers lasts a single round, and that ioverall duration of the song is unaffected.
FriendlyFrog
02-02-07, 08:04 AM There's a magic item called the Vest of Legends in DMGII, it makes you count as five levels higher than normal when determiming the bonus granted by your Bardic music, but with a price of 16,000 gp, it's likely out of your reach at this level.

You want to maximize Inspire courage and go to Lyric thaumaturge? Bad idea. The PrC doesn't stack with your Bardic music, it only gives you new kinds of music and more uses.

My favourite singing and casting Bard build is Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime chord 2/Virtuoso +8. Amazing music abilities (with the Vest of Legends) and 9th level arcane spells. Makes a great party buffer.
Haplo781
02-02-07, 03:05 PM The idea is to get my IC up as high as possible before taking PrCs so as to mitigate the loss of stacking.

I'm planning on going Bard 7/Lyric Thaumaturge 3/Sublime Chord 3/Seeker of the Song 7. Gets me most of the really good abilities from each PrC and a pretty good spell selection. My BAB progression will absolutely suck (+8/+3 at 20th level,) so the IC is going to be helpful in that regard.

I'm not too concerned about getting high-level spells since we have a wizard, but he's specializing in Evocation so he has no Illusion or Transmutation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Haplo781 02-01-07, 11:40 PM	How can a Bard 4 give the biggest combat bonuses with Inspire Courage? So far, I have: Song of the Heart (+1 to bonuses.) Masterwork Horn (+1 to attack, damage, and fear saves, no bonus on charm saves.) Harmony (Changes base bonus to +2 atk/dmg and +4 on charm/fear saves) Inspirational Boost (+1 to bonuses.) That's a total of 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = +5 on attack and damage, and 4 + 1 + 1 + 1 = +7 on fear saves, with no bonus on charm. Also, I have an enchanted mouthpiece that lets me use Animate Instrument 1/day on my horn via command word, so I can have it play itself for 4 minutes (40 rounds,) leaving me with both hands free to fight. So, have I missed anything?
LogicNinja 02-01-07, 11:41 PM	MW Horn makes Inspire Courage last one round. The MW Drum just adds +1 damage, but doesn't reduce the duration. The Words of Creation feat from the BoED lets you double your base Inspire Courage bonus for 3d4 subdual damage to you.
FruitOfTheShroom 02-01-07, 11:47 PM	The Words of Creation feat is by far one of the best tools for a good bard focusing on insprire courage. Take it, love it.
Haplo781 02-01-07, 11:54 PM	Actually, it lasts as long as I keep playing and one round after. Animate Instrument means I can let it play itself, thus negating that drawback. I know about WoC, but I haven't come across the primal writings (yet,) and I need to take Melodic Casting at 6th to qualify for Lyric Thaumaturge. Actually, my feat slots are tied up until lvl. 15 unless I change my PrC choices.
Quaz_and_Wally 02-02-07, 12:11 AM	Sorry, but where is the Masterwork Horn, and Harmonize from?
Haplo781 02-02-07, 12:25 AM	Masterwork Horn is in CAdventurer. Harmony comes from Player's Guide to Faerūn.
Groz 02-02-07, 12:38 AM	Words of Creation - it just DOUBLES your bardic inspire courage. You can get insane numbers that way, because all thigs add before the doubling happens. Easily +4 at 4th level, maybe +6.
Haplo781 02-02-07, 12:53 AM	Wait, it doubles AFTER bonuses? That changes things. Good thing my DM is allowing the PHB II- I just realized I can use feat retraining to swap something for it. Probably Extra Music.
LogicNinja 02-02-07, 12:57 AM	No, no, it doesn't double it after bonuses. It doubles it before (they provide a table in the BoED: +1 becomes +2, +2 becomes +4, and so on, referring to the base Inspire Courage values)--which means it gives +1 to +4, more than most other things.
Quaz_and_Wally 02-02-07, 12:59 AM	Masterwork Horn is in CAdventurer. Harmony comes from Player's Guide to Faerūn. Thank you very much! On a more related note, I've played an Exalted bard with words of creation, and my GM wouldn't allow stuff from eberron or Faerun. But even at level 8, a +6 bonus on attack and damage made everyone love me. If your GM allows all this stuff, then your party should be very happy.
Tytalus 02-02-07, 02:06 AM	Note that since SC came out, Harmony does no longer exist - it has been replaced by Inspirational Boost. No, no, it doesn't double it after bonuses. It doubles it before (they provide a table in the BoED: +1 becomes +2, +2 becomes +4, and so on, referring to the base Inspire Courage values)--which means it gives +1 to +4, more than most other things. This is not entirely clear as the example progression clearly does not take into account any other bonus but the base bonus; WotC Customer Service has judged it to be a DM's call, for what it's worth. It's also disputed whether or not the feat applies when instruments are used. MW Horn makes Inspire Courage last one round. The MW Drum just adds +1 damage, but doesn't reduce the duration. Another possible reading of the MW horn description is that only the extra +1 the horn confers lasts a single round, and that ioverall duration of the song is unaffected.
FriendlyFrog 02-02-07, 08:04 AM	There's a magic item called the Vest of Legends in DMGII, it makes you count as five levels higher than normal when determiming the bonus granted by your Bardic music, but with a price of 16,000 gp, it's likely out of your reach at this level. You want to maximize Inspire courage and go to Lyric thaumaturge? Bad idea. The PrC doesn't stack with your Bardic music, it only gives you new kinds of music and more uses. My favourite singing and casting Bard build is Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime chord 2/Virtuoso +8. Amazing music abilities (with the Vest of Legends) and 9th level arcane spells. Makes a great party buffer.
Haplo781 02-02-07, 03:05 PM	The idea is to get my IC up as high as possible before taking PrCs so as to mitigate the loss of stacking. I'm planning on going Bard 7/Lyric Thaumaturge 3/Sublime Chord 3/Seeker of the Song 7. Gets me most of the really good abilities from each PrC and a pretty good spell selection. My BAB progression will absolutely suck (+8/+3 at 20th level,) so the IC is going to be helpful in that regard. I'm not too concerned about getting high-level spells since we have a wizard, but he's specializing in Evocation so he has no Illusion or Transmutation.