Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheMrBlack 08-31-05, 11:44 AM	are there any Bard/Monk combo PRC's out there? either bookwise or homebrew? I'm playing a bard, was thinking about switching into monk, and seeing if there were any combos already made up before creating my own PrC for it. Thanks. Bill
Faithless the Wonder Boy 08-31-05, 11:53 AM	While there is no specific PrC for combining Bard/Monk (how are you getting past the alignment difficulties, by the way?), you could certainly use the Enlightened Fist PrC, and the Ascetic Mage feat, for help. Just as a side note, though the Ascetic Mage's pre-reqs are simply Imp. Unarmed Strike and the ability to spontaneously cast 2nd level arcane spells, in the text of the feat itself it says "...you sorcerer and monk levels stack to determine your Monk AC bonus..." I'd see if you can get a houserule to allow Bard to work instead of Sorcerer. If that was the case, you'd be able to use Cha instead of Wis for determining your AC, Bard/Monk levels would stack for AC, and you would be able to sacrifice a spell slot as a bonus to attack and damage as a swift action - altogether pretty decent. From there take the Enlightened Fist PrC, which provides 8/10 spellcasting progression and advances most of the monk's abilities, with a few others. Of course, it works best as a way to deliver lots of nasty touch/ray spells with a flurry of blows, and the bard spell list has far fewer spells that will be really effective. You could even consider taking a level in Sublime Chord or, better yet, go Sorcerer/Prestige Bard for the same flavor but taking care of alignment penalties and getting better spellcasting. Not sure how well that would work, though - it seems like the class progression would start to get mighty complicated. Hope you figure something out, it sounds like an interesting project.
AramilWindwalker 08-31-05, 11:59 AM	but that's not the big issue, the big issue is the nonlawful alignment of bard and tyhe lawful alignment of the monk
rilem 08-31-05, 12:00 PM	Not really — there's no "Ascetic Peformer" feat that allows monk/bard multiclassing, the way there is for Bard/Paladin. You could make one of course, but I'm not seeing the synergy. Monk involves Wis; Bard requires Cha and probably Int. If you were a Monk, you could get Bardic Knowledge or the equivalent easily enough, and even some bardic music effects (tougher, but doable). For a bard, the question becomes: Why a monk? Is it the AC? The unarmed combat? Because there are other ways to get those.
TheMrBlack 08-31-05, 12:11 PM	Ok to be honest, this idea was for a specific character. I'm playing a Gloura bard. Gloura gain a charisma bonus to AC and saves. Monks gain a wisdom bonus to AC and unarmed attacks, decent saves and well, combined I dont see how there isn't synergy there.... Consider this: 7th level gloura (+2 LA) and 2 levels of bard, with a 24 Charisma and I believe over 20 wisdom, lets just say 19 for giggles. Right there that's a +11 AC... Add the monks AC adjustment for a few levels, add a Charisma increasing item and /or books... and you could easily keep out of combat. Not to mention your saves should be flat out scary. Add some combat skills and you'll be set. I'm also considering trying a fighter or ranger combo... I need something relatively evil... God I hate when a friend recommends something then I Cant figure out what to do from there, if I started with the idea from scratch I'd not be in this predictament... lol
AramilWindwalker 08-31-05, 12:19 PM	if you just want the ac then you could use ninja, it does the same thing ac-wise, butyou just don't get unarmed strike
TheMrBlack 08-31-05, 12:27 PM	I guess... the problem I really have is that I just want the character to do something, at the moment yueah I have the highest ac, I have the highest sr I think I have the highest saves, but what's the point when you dont do anything but wonder around and go, "ooo what's that?" *sigh* Shoulda made a kobold assassin.
rilem 08-31-05, 12:35 PM	Gloura gain a charisma bonus to AC and saves. Monks gain a wisdom bonus to AC and unarmed attacks, decent saves and well, combined I dont see how there isn't synergy there.... There isn't synergy b/c Wisdom and Charisma are two different stats. Monks, for the most part, aren't helped by Cha. Bards are not helped by Wisdom. If you could swap the monk's AC stat to Cha (as noted) THEN there'd be synergy (though I don't think it's worth the cost). Now, if you've got high scores all over (24 Cha, 20 Wis, the highest str of the group), synergy isn't as big a problem. I don't really understand your last comment. "ooo, what's that?" What's your problem, exactly? And what are your feats, stats, etc.?
TheMrBlack 08-31-05, 12:40 PM	Ah I just feel like the character is going no where. Doesnt have anything to do. that was the oo what's that.
rilem 08-31-05, 12:48 PM	Right, but if you already have the highest saves and highest AC, and feel you're going nowhere, how will improving saves and AC even more help you? I'm just trying to get a sense of your frustration. You're a good spellcaster, with good skills, and very survivable. Are you lacking in combat prowess (probably, with Fey BAB)? Then taking Divine Might (via Paladin) and Snowflake Wardance could help a lot by giving you CHA to hit/dmg. If you REALLY want Monk, here's an option: Gloura7/Bard2/Paladin4/Monk3 -Use Devoted Perf. (Cadv.) to switch to Lawful Good as Bard. Now you can take Monk levels. -Use Ascetic Mage to get Cha to AC. -Take Divine Might, Snowflake Wardance when you can. That's ChaX2 to saves, Chax2 to AC, Cha to Dmg., Cha to Hit. Personally, I think that's a big waste, but it is feasible. Again, your stats/feats? EDIT: Forgot, you're evil. Paladin of Tyranny (unearthed arcana) then; logically Devoted Performer should still work.
saucercrab 08-31-05, 06:28 PM	TheMrBlack, I think your friend had thought that you had wanted to play a character with the sublime chord PrC for a while now. When you started the current game, he had suggested the gloura as a better alternative to just starting out as a normal bard so you could play an SC. Why did you want to play a SC in the first place? To be a bard with high-level arcane spells, that's why. So you don't want to play an arcane caster, then? That's what your friend is wondering... As an aside, any weird multclassing might be hard to do, while stuck in a dungeon with no place to train/learn. ;)
TheMrBlack 09-01-05, 05:34 AM	my friend should know me by now, and know that I get annoyed when I feel like I'm going no where with a character. I liked the idea alot. I just dont know where to go from here. guess I'll stick it out till she dies. I mean if , if she dies.
rilem 09-01-05, 08:00 AM	Once again, HOW are you going nowhere? What are you not doing that you feel you should be doing? Sublime Chord is a great option for you, but maybe you just don't like spellcasters. Please give us details, we might be able to help.
TheMrBlack 09-01-05, 09:32 AM	I guess it's just flat out boredom with the character itself, and looking for an additional output I guess.. I guess I will just stick to the original path of gloura/bard/sublime chord, which i can enter at what 12th saucercrab? =P
Eyeless Blond 09-01-05, 10:00 AM	Ah, so you're looking for a direction for your character. Okay, that we can help with. Since it seems you've already started play, let's see some of the pertinent stats, feats, and class build you've already got, so we can make some suggestions on possible strategic/tactical choices, some hints on a good handle for your character. I'd also suggest cross-posting on the Character Development board, just below this one on the list. What you're really looking for is something that'll make this character come alive for you, make him fun to play. That sort of thing doesn't come from gimmocky class dips and flailing about with weird builds, at least not exclusively from these anyway. :) When it actually comes down to playing the character I find far more enjoyment comes from the character's personality and how he reacts to situations, rather than the laundry list of abilities he has. And yes, I know that sounds like blasphemy on this board, but there you go. :)
Finglas Leaflock 09-01-05, 11:14 AM	Don't know if this is possible (based on what saucercrab said about being stuck in a dungeon), but if it is, maybe you could find a monk's belt and get some of the monk benefits without cutting into your spellcasting progression--especially if the main reason you started the character was to play a Sublime Chord. BTW, I drive through your town to play D&D, from work in Paterson to friends' houses in either Bloomingdale or Haskell. Just noticed that before writing my reply. :)
saucercrab 09-01-05, 06:21 PM	my friend should know me by now, and know that I get annoyed when I feel like I'm going no where with a character. I liked the idea alot. I just dont know where to go from here. guess I'll stick it out till she dies. I mean if , if she dies.I guess it's just flat out boredom with the character itself, and looking for an additional output I guess..Um, it's been one session. You've become bored with a character in one session, before it even started on the main focus of the whole build (arcane caster via SC PrC)? Oh, wait, that's not unusual... ;) Your friend thought you wanted to play an arcane caster, but if not, maybe you should think about another character type. Your group currently has a tank/meat-shield to become a monk, a dual caster (MT), & rogue/skill-monkey. Psionics is not taken, if you want something different. I guess I will just stick to the original path of gloura/bard/sublime chord, which i can enter at what 12th saucercrab? =P"Math is hard." That's your motto. :D Finglas Leaflock, Although TheMrBlack's game does have the group in a dungeon, at least one of the character's will have access to teleport soon, so they might not be stuck there. His friend forgot about that.