bard/swashbuckler bladesinger [Archive] - Wizards Community

bard/swashbuckler bladesinger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Archades
10-02-04, 11:38 PM Not sure how to search for similar threads to answer my questions, but I'm pretty sure the way my current build is going is specific enough for a new thread.

I'll have 3 bard and 3 swashbuckler from CW, and I was wondering the best way to go from there to take advantage of high charisma, dex, and int. (elven, s13 d18 c12 w14 in16 ch17)

I'd prefer at least 4-6 bladesinger levels (of either races of faerun or CW) to go along with his concept, as well as possibly some holy liberator or arcane duelist (shown here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a ). Feat ideas would be nice too.

BTW, im not sure if this is also appropriate to ask here, but is it assumed that all 3.0 PrCs that grant stat-based AC bonuses (besides dex) now grant that bonus based on your PrC level only (like the crappy new duelist)? Kinda sucks for those 5 level PrCs...

thanks
JosephKell
10-03-04, 12:07 AM Bard 7/Swashbuckler 3/Bladesinger 10? Song of Fury (that is the 10th level ability, right?) and your 18 BAB would net you 5 attacks if you make a full-attack.

Another possibility could be Bard 3/Swashbuckler 3/Bladesinger 10/Havoc Mage 4 (Bard Caster level 10). Unfortunately Battlecast (full action to make 1 attack and cast 1 spell) doesn't synergize with Song of Fury (1 extra attack at max to hit, but all attacks are at -2).

Bard 3/Swashbuckler 3/Bladesinger 10/Monk 4? Throw Two-Weapon Fighting in and you can do an attack with your sword (and the Fury), and then a Flurry and Off-hand with your unarmed (1d8 damage also I think at 4th level). The only real problem is the Bard-Monk alignment conflict.
Ranthanas
10-03-04, 06:17 AM If you start as a bard, go for the Races of Faerun bladesinger. No question.

Bard 3/Swashbuckler 3/RoF Bladesinger 10/Arcane Duelist 4 is a perfectly good build and epic-ready in two directions. (The Arcane Duelist is good in epic because his balancing factor of low BAB is negated, while he can get epic weapons for a fraction of the usual price (cost of the cheapest epic weapon: 720,000 GP + small change. Cost of a +4 Wrathful Healing Metalline Sure Striking weapon (enchanted to +6 with Enchant Chosen Weapon +2): 200,000GP + Small Change - and I know which I'd prefer).

Re the stat based AC bonusses, that's how I'd play it- but the RAW says leave it.
Archades
10-03-04, 07:03 PM What about feats? I'm thinking words of creation (combined with inspire courage and a horn) or practiced spellcaster (or whatever the CD feat that makes multiclass spellcasting useful is called) as soon as possible. Arcane strike is almost essential. Disguise spell from SaS might be useful too, but later.
(bladesinger bonus feats would definitely include mobility if going for arcane duelist... or disarm, combat reflexes, quick draw, and/or of course, improved crit, no?)

Also, what's Havoc Mage from? If i'm taking RoF bladesinger, their level six ability would blow battlecast out of the water, anyways. It allows a full attack and a spell.
Oh yeah, where do I find this wrathful healing and metalline I keep hearing so much about (and is the new sure striking really so great?)

on a final note (i promise), what progression would you recommend? 3 bladesinger, then 2 arcane duelist, then finish bladesinger and go back to AD?
Snicker-Snack
10-03-04, 07:44 PM I'm thinking words of creation (combined with inspire courage and a horn) or practiced spellcaster (or whatever the CD feat that makes multiclass spellcasting useful is called) as soon as possible.

How much levels of bard will you actually take? I don't think Words of Creation is the best choice if you take few levels (because i don't think that the extra bonus from the natural Horn are doubled).

Also, what's Havoc Mage from?

Miniuatures Handbook.

It allows a full attack and a spell.

God bless 3.0 Song of clelerity :D.

Oh yeah, where do I find this wrathful healing and metalline I keep hearing so much about

Wrathful Healing is from Enemies and Allies, metalline is from underdark.
Qaetar
10-03-04, 08:15 PM How about:

Half-Elf Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/(Races of Faerūn) Bladesinger 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/(Spellsword 3 | Spellsword 1/Bladesinger 7/Nar Demonbinder 1)

ECL Level BAB F R W Abilities
1 Rog 1 0 0 2 0 Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding, 1: Combat Casting
2 Nin 1 1 0 4 0 Sneak Attack +2d6, Ninja Dodge +1
3 Swb 1 2 2 4 0 Weapon Finesse, 3: Weapon Focus (Rapier)
4 Swb 2 3 3 4 0 Grace +1
5 Swb 3 4 3 5 1 Insightful Strike (Int to Dmg)
6 Wiz 1 4 3 5 3 Spells, Scribe Scroll, Familiar, 6: Still Spell
7 Ftr 1 5 5 5 3 Ftr: Expertise
8 BlS 1 6 5 7 5 Bladesong (Int to AC)
9 BlS 2 7 5 8 6 Feat: Spring Attack, 9: Blind-Fight
10 BlS 3 8 6 8 6 Lesser Spellsong
11 BlS 4 9 6 9 7 -
12 BlS 5 10 6 9 7 Feat: Quick Draw, 12: Arcane Strike
13 BlS 6 11 7 10 8 Song of Celerity
14 Tfl 1 11 7 12 8 Shadowsight, Shadow Jump
15 Tfl 2 12 7 13 8 Shadow Blur, 15: *OPEN*
16 Tfl 3 13 8 13 9 Shadow Walk
17 Tfl 4 14 8 14 9 Shadow Pounce
------
18 SpS 1 15 10 14 11 Ignore ASF 10%, 18: *OPEN*
19 SpS 2 16 11 14 12 Feat: *OPEN*
20 SpS 3 17 11 15 12 Ignore ASF 15%
--or--
........................................ .15: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
18 SpS 1 16 10 14 11 Ignore ASF 10%, 18: Iron Will
19 BlS 7 17 10 14 11 Greater Spellsong
20 NrD 1 17 10 14 13 Fiendish Familiar, Inimical Casting
--or--
............................Bladesinger 5 Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
........................................ .15: Iron Will
18 NrD 1 16 8 14 11 Fiendish Familiar, Inimical Casting, 18: *OPEN*
19 DrS 1 17 10 14 13 Aura of Courage, Damage Bonus
20 SpS 1 18 12 14 15 Ignore ASF 10%

This'll allow you to Full Attack, Quickened Dimension Door due to Song of Celerity and then get another Full Attack.

It's only 8 attacks, but you can Arcane Strike 'em, too.

The second Postfix gives more Arcane Strike Fodder.
The third Postfix gives even more Arcane Strike Fodder.

(Qaetar)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Archades 10-02-04, 11:38 PM	Not sure how to search for similar threads to answer my questions, but I'm pretty sure the way my current build is going is specific enough for a new thread. I'll have 3 bard and 3 swashbuckler from CW, and I was wondering the best way to go from there to take advantage of high charisma, dex, and int. (elven, s13 d18 c12 w14 in16 ch17) I'd prefer at least 4-6 bladesinger levels (of either races of faerun or CW) to go along with his concept, as well as possibly some holy liberator or arcane duelist (shown here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a ). Feat ideas would be nice too. BTW, im not sure if this is also appropriate to ask here, but is it assumed that all 3.0 PrCs that grant stat-based AC bonuses (besides dex) now grant that bonus based on your PrC level only (like the crappy new duelist)? Kinda sucks for those 5 level PrCs... thanks
JosephKell 10-03-04, 12:07 AM	Bard 7/Swashbuckler 3/Bladesinger 10? Song of Fury (that is the 10th level ability, right?) and your 18 BAB would net you 5 attacks if you make a full-attack. Another possibility could be Bard 3/Swashbuckler 3/Bladesinger 10/Havoc Mage 4 (Bard Caster level 10). Unfortunately Battlecast (full action to make 1 attack and cast 1 spell) doesn't synergize with Song of Fury (1 extra attack at max to hit, but all attacks are at -2). Bard 3/Swashbuckler 3/Bladesinger 10/Monk 4? Throw Two-Weapon Fighting in and you can do an attack with your sword (and the Fury), and then a Flurry and Off-hand with your unarmed (1d8 damage also I think at 4th level). The only real problem is the Bard-Monk alignment conflict.
Ranthanas 10-03-04, 06:17 AM	If you start as a bard, go for the Races of Faerun bladesinger. No question. Bard 3/Swashbuckler 3/RoF Bladesinger 10/Arcane Duelist 4 is a perfectly good build and epic-ready in two directions. (The Arcane Duelist is good in epic because his balancing factor of low BAB is negated, while he can get epic weapons for a fraction of the usual price (cost of the cheapest epic weapon: 720,000 GP + small change. Cost of a +4 Wrathful Healing Metalline Sure Striking weapon (enchanted to +6 with Enchant Chosen Weapon +2): 200,000GP + Small Change - and I know which I'd prefer). Re the stat based AC bonusses, that's how I'd play it- but the RAW says leave it.
Archades 10-03-04, 07:03 PM	What about feats? I'm thinking words of creation (combined with inspire courage and a horn) or practiced spellcaster (or whatever the CD feat that makes multiclass spellcasting useful is called) as soon as possible. Arcane strike is almost essential. Disguise spell from SaS might be useful too, but later. (bladesinger bonus feats would definitely include mobility if going for arcane duelist... or disarm, combat reflexes, quick draw, and/or of course, improved crit, no?) Also, what's Havoc Mage from? If i'm taking RoF bladesinger, their level six ability would blow battlecast out of the water, anyways. It allows a full attack and a spell. Oh yeah, where do I find this wrathful healing and metalline I keep hearing so much about (and is the new sure striking really so great?) on a final note (i promise), what progression would you recommend? 3 bladesinger, then 2 arcane duelist, then finish bladesinger and go back to AD?
Snicker-Snack 10-03-04, 07:44 PM	I'm thinking words of creation (combined with inspire courage and a horn) or practiced spellcaster (or whatever the CD feat that makes multiclass spellcasting useful is called) as soon as possible. How much levels of bard will you actually take? I don't think Words of Creation is the best choice if you take few levels (because i don't think that the extra bonus from the natural Horn are doubled). Also, what's Havoc Mage from? Miniuatures Handbook. It allows a full attack and a spell. God bless 3.0 Song of clelerity :D. Oh yeah, where do I find this wrathful healing and metalline I keep hearing so much about Wrathful Healing is from Enemies and Allies, metalline is from underdark.
Qaetar 10-03-04, 08:15 PM	How about: Half-Elf Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/(Races of Faerūn) Bladesinger 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/(Spellsword 3 \| Spellsword 1/Bladesinger 7/Nar Demonbinder 1) ECL Level BAB F R W Abilities 1 Rog 1 0 0 2 0 Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding, 1: Combat Casting 2 Nin 1 1 0 4 0 Sneak Attack +2d6, Ninja Dodge +1 3 Swb 1 2 2 4 0 Weapon Finesse, 3: Weapon Focus (Rapier) 4 Swb 2 3 3 4 0 Grace +1 5 Swb 3 4 3 5 1 Insightful Strike (Int to Dmg) 6 Wiz 1 4 3 5 3 Spells, Scribe Scroll, Familiar, 6: Still Spell 7 Ftr 1 5 5 5 3 Ftr: Expertise 8 BlS 1 6 5 7 5 Bladesong (Int to AC) 9 BlS 2 7 5 8 6 Feat: Spring Attack, 9: Blind-Fight 10 BlS 3 8 6 8 6 Lesser Spellsong 11 BlS 4 9 6 9 7 - 12 BlS 5 10 6 9 7 Feat: Quick Draw, 12: Arcane Strike 13 BlS 6 11 7 10 8 Song of Celerity 14 Tfl 1 11 7 12 8 Shadowsight, Shadow Jump 15 Tfl 2 12 7 13 8 Shadow Blur, 15: OPEN 16 Tfl 3 13 8 13 9 Shadow Walk 17 Tfl 4 14 8 14 9 Shadow Pounce ------ 18 SpS 1 15 10 14 11 Ignore ASF 10%, 18: OPEN 19 SpS 2 16 11 14 12 Feat: OPEN 20 SpS 3 17 11 15 12 Ignore ASF 15% --or-- ........................................ .15: Spell Focus (Conjuration) 18 SpS 1 16 10 14 11 Ignore ASF 10%, 18: Iron Will 19 BlS 7 17 10 14 11 Greater Spellsong 20 NrD 1 17 10 14 13 Fiendish Familiar, Inimical Casting --or-- ............................Bladesinger 5 Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration) ........................................ .15: Iron Will 18 NrD 1 16 8 14 11 Fiendish Familiar, Inimical Casting, 18: OPEN 19 DrS 1 17 10 14 13 Aura of Courage, Damage Bonus 20 SpS 1 18 12 14 15 Ignore ASF 10% This'll allow you to Full Attack, Quickened Dimension Door due to Song of Celerity and then get another Full Attack. It's only 8 attacks, but you can Arcane Strike 'em, too. The second Postfix gives more Arcane Strike Fodder. The third Postfix gives even more Arcane Strike Fodder. (Qaetar)