Bardic Crusader recreation Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bardic Crusader recreation Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hailand
02-13-07, 03:16 PM Hi! The DM of my group has recently decided to let us recreate our characters. I am totally satisfied with mine, but maybe I can find some ways to further improve him with your help.
I will break him down for you. That was the planning:

Human Bard 1/Dragon Shaman 1/Crusader 18
Advancement: (Crusader 1/Bard 1/Dragon Shaman 1//Crusader+X)

Feats:
1: Extra Granted Maneuver, Distracting Attack
3: Extra Music
6: Song of the White Raven
9: Words of Creation
12: White Raven Defense
15: Clarion Commander
18: Uh... Power Attack? ><

Currently I am at level 5(Human Bard 2/Crusader 3) and my maneuvers are(bold are usually readied):

1st: Vanguard Strike, Crusader's Strike, Stone Vise, Douse the Flames, Leading the Attack
2nd: Tactical Strike

My stances are:
Iron Guard's Glare, Bolstering Voice

My equipment is(everything is masterwork):
A spiked full-plate, a glaive, a longsword and a heavy steel shield.

My teammates are:
A dragonborn barbarian, a grey elf wizard and a gnome cleric.

My play so far is:
Quite good, I would say.

I use the glaive+armor spikes for good reach with Iron Guard's Glare. I can stand behind the cleric and barbarian, so the opponents have to get past them or take the attack penalty. Douse the Flames and especially Tactical Strike helps with positioning for flanking and Crusader's Strike has worked well so far if we did not need that much healing and the cleric wanted to save his spells.
I haven't actually used the sword and board combo so far, because the other one seems too superior.
As far as I can demand, things are going very fine for me. The only thing that bugs me is still having to take a standard action to sing each encounter, but that will change with the next level, anyway.
Um... So, I can't think of any obvious improvements. My build is centered on aiding the party, especially the cleric and barbarian. Do you have any suggestions on how I could improve this character(current and the planned build)?
Possibly I could trade out that Bard level for some other. But Marshal did not appeal to me as a 1-level-dip, and anything else seems just selfish. :(

Books allowed: I don't really know how many my DM owns(at least the Completes, "Core" and many Eberron books) and from which he will allow material, but feel free to suggest anything. ^^

Many thanks!
Chimaera2000
02-13-07, 04:53 PM According to my SRD, it looks like you need three levels of bard to qualify for Song of the Heart (that's when they get Inspire Competence).

Do you know about the spell inspirational boost (Bard1, Spell Compendium)? It allows you to increase the effectiveness of your Inspire Courage ability and it's only a swift action casting time. If you use it, there would be a choice forced between using that and Song of the White Raven, though.

Since you're using a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and Thicket of Blades is a pretty solid combination.

For this build, I personally would have made do without Lingering Music, since it only takes a free action to maintain Inspire Courage and you don't have enough spellcasting to worry about canceling it. Here's a build that you might like:

Crusader 1/Bard 3/Crus +x

Feats
1: Improved Initiative, Extra Granted Maneuver
3: Song of the White Raven
6: Song of the Heart
9: Words of Creation

Since you'll have three bard levels, you can probably make do without Extra Music. Taking Bard at first level gives you more skill points, but this set-up allows you to fit in Extra Granted Maneuver. If you can make do without Extra Granted Maneuver, then you can try this:

Bard 3/Crusader X

Feats
1: Improved Initiative, Extra Music (if retraining allowed) or other feat.
3: Song of the Heart
6: Song of the White Raven
9: Words of Creation

The second build lets you max out Inspire Courage as quickly as possible without going pure bard. I personally favor the first, though, as it strikes a nice balance between fun factor (I love maneuvers!) and providing Inspire Courage boosts.
FriendlyFrog
02-13-07, 05:54 PM In the Bard section in Eberron campaign setting it says you can switch some of the new Bardic musics for one of the Bardic music feats in the book. Going with Bard 3 and taking Song of the Heart instead of Inspire competence will save you a feat. :D
Pryor
02-13-07, 06:38 PM Save that Song of the Heart lists Inspire Competence as a Prerequisite, so you can't swap IC for SotH.

Is there a reason you decided not to go with Warblade, given that it stacks with your Bard levels with respect to Inspire Courage? Does Crusader do that as well, and I just missed that somewhere?

Cheers,

Pryor
Chimaera2000
02-13-07, 10:57 PM Song of the White Raven stacks with crusader levels, too.
Pryor
02-13-07, 11:45 PM Excellent. I must attribute that oversight on my part to mental laziness, as upon revisiting the feat it is right there, plain as day. Thanks for bringing that to my attention - Crusaders being consderably better than Warblades, that's a worthwhile realization.

Cheers,

Pryor
Hailand
02-14-07, 12:55 AM According to my SRD, it looks like you need three levels of bard to qualify for Song of the Heart (that's when they get Inspire Competence).
Uh, you are right with that. :(
Now it's a choice between losing that next crusader level and also an initiator level or always having one less point of inspire courage...

Do you know about the spell inspirational boost (Bard1, Spell Compendium)?
Now I do, thanks! :)
I could use a potion of it together with Song of the White Raven, hm?

Since you're using a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and Thicket of Blades is a pretty solid combination.

For this build, I personally would have made do without Lingering Music, since it only takes a free action to maintain Inspire Courage[...]
Oh my, you are right! That is 1st) very flavorful, because I can keep singing inside combat and 2nd) very nice, because it saves me a feat. :)

On the builds:
Well, I have decided I will let that Song of the Heart out. I'd rather not lose another initiator level. That's one level earlier funny maneuvers. And that is beneficial to my allies, as well.
Thanks for your work, but I will keep going with Bard 2, then. Or interchange the second level somehow.

(I love maneuvers!)
Me too!!!!!111 :P

@Friendly Frog: Thanks, but I knew that and intentionally didn't use this chance. It's just too painful to lose that next IL. :(
Now, that I am forced to take at least those 3 levels of bard for Song of the Heart, I will rather skip it.

New build coming up soon in the first post!
(And still searching badly for a replacement of bard 2)
edit: Oh, I could really imagine a level of Dragonshaman. It would give 3 auras, and at least the vigor and senses auras are universally useful!
Hailand
02-14-07, 09:38 AM Friendly :bump: from the second page. :)
Hailand
02-14-07, 03:54 PM :bump:
TheOne
02-14-07, 04:50 PM With snowflake wardance you can add your chr to attack as long as you are using a one handed weapon slashing weapon with nothing in your offhand. Kusuri-gama works well for this, one handed with reach.
Hailand
02-15-07, 12:06 AM Hm... Even if I would get a high enough charisma(currently 12...) to make it worthwhile, the Wardance also eats up a music charge, which I can't really afford. :(

Thanks for the suggestion, anyway. :)
Chimaera2000
02-15-07, 12:11 AM I could use a potion of it together with Song of the White Raven, hm?

Heck, you could use a wand of it if you wanted! According to either the Sage or the FAQ (I can't remember which), wands use the spell's normal casting time to activate them. That means that you could begin combat by drawing an inspirational boost wand, using a swift action to activate it, then a standard action to activate inspire courage. Alternatively, if you need to melee now, you can forgo the wand and just use Song of the White Raven to swift-action Inspire Courage.

Well, I have decided I will let that Song of the Heart out. I'd rather not lose another initiator level. That's one level earlier funny maneuvers. And that is beneficial to my allies, as well.

Thanks for your work, but I will keep going with Bard 2, then. Or interchange the second level somehow.

Getting rid of Song of the Heart is perfectly viable, but why take the second level of bard, then? One level of bard plus Extra music already gives you five uses of Inspire Courage per day, and one extra spell isn't worth it compared to the benefits offered by crusader.

Dragon Shaman is a viable choice except for the BAB loss. The auras are good, though, and you can also qualify for the scaling Draconic Aura feat if you have Dragon Magic.
Hailand
02-15-07, 09:27 AM Yay! I will be going with a Dragon Shaman, in that case!
Thank you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hailand 02-13-07, 03:16 PM	Hi! The DM of my group has recently decided to let us recreate our characters. I am totally satisfied with mine, but maybe I can find some ways to further improve him with your help. I will break him down for you. That was the planning: Human Bard 1/Dragon Shaman 1/Crusader 18 Advancement: (Crusader 1/Bard 1/Dragon Shaman 1//Crusader+X) Feats: 1: Extra Granted Maneuver, Distracting Attack 3: Extra Music 6: Song of the White Raven 9: Words of Creation 12: White Raven Defense 15: Clarion Commander 18: Uh... Power Attack? >< Currently I am at level 5(Human Bard 2/Crusader 3) and my maneuvers are(bold are usually readied): 1st: Vanguard Strike, Crusader's Strike, Stone Vise, Douse the Flames, Leading the Attack 2nd: Tactical Strike My stances are: Iron Guard's Glare, Bolstering Voice My equipment is(everything is masterwork): A spiked full-plate, a glaive, a longsword and a heavy steel shield. My teammates are: A dragonborn barbarian, a grey elf wizard and a gnome cleric. My play so far is: Quite good, I would say. I use the glaive+armor spikes for good reach with Iron Guard's Glare. I can stand behind the cleric and barbarian, so the opponents have to get past them or take the attack penalty. Douse the Flames and especially Tactical Strike helps with positioning for flanking and Crusader's Strike has worked well so far if we did not need that much healing and the cleric wanted to save his spells. I haven't actually used the sword and board combo so far, because the other one seems too superior. As far as I can demand, things are going very fine for me. The only thing that bugs me is still having to take a standard action to sing each encounter, but that will change with the next level, anyway. Um... So, I can't think of any obvious improvements. My build is centered on aiding the party, especially the cleric and barbarian. Do you have any suggestions on how I could improve this character(current and the planned build)? Possibly I could trade out that Bard level for some other. But Marshal did not appeal to me as a 1-level-dip, and anything else seems just selfish. :( Books allowed: I don't really know how many my DM owns(at least the Completes, "Core" and many Eberron books) and from which he will allow material, but feel free to suggest anything. ^^ Many thanks!
Chimaera2000 02-13-07, 04:53 PM	According to my SRD, it looks like you need three levels of bard to qualify for Song of the Heart (that's when they get Inspire Competence). Do you know about the spell inspirational boost (Bard1, Spell Compendium)? It allows you to increase the effectiveness of your Inspire Courage ability and it's only a swift action casting time. If you use it, there would be a choice forced between using that and Song of the White Raven, though. Since you're using a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and Thicket of Blades is a pretty solid combination. For this build, I personally would have made do without Lingering Music, since it only takes a free action to maintain Inspire Courage and you don't have enough spellcasting to worry about canceling it. Here's a build that you might like: Crusader 1/Bard 3/Crus +x Feats 1: Improved Initiative, Extra Granted Maneuver 3: Song of the White Raven 6: Song of the Heart 9: Words of Creation Since you'll have three bard levels, you can probably make do without Extra Music. Taking Bard at first level gives you more skill points, but this set-up allows you to fit in Extra Granted Maneuver. If you can make do without Extra Granted Maneuver, then you can try this: Bard 3/Crusader X Feats 1: Improved Initiative, Extra Music (if retraining allowed) or other feat. 3: Song of the Heart 6: Song of the White Raven 9: Words of Creation The second build lets you max out Inspire Courage as quickly as possible without going pure bard. I personally favor the first, though, as it strikes a nice balance between fun factor (I love maneuvers!) and providing Inspire Courage boosts.
FriendlyFrog 02-13-07, 05:54 PM	In the Bard section in Eberron campaign setting it says you can switch some of the new Bardic musics for one of the Bardic music feats in the book. Going with Bard 3 and taking Song of the Heart instead of Inspire competence will save you a feat. :D
Pryor 02-13-07, 06:38 PM	Save that Song of the Heart lists Inspire Competence as a Prerequisite, so you can't swap IC for SotH. Is there a reason you decided not to go with Warblade, given that it stacks with your Bard levels with respect to Inspire Courage? Does Crusader do that as well, and I just missed that somewhere? Cheers, Pryor
Chimaera2000 02-13-07, 10:57 PM	Song of the White Raven stacks with crusader levels, too.
Pryor 02-13-07, 11:45 PM	Excellent. I must attribute that oversight on my part to mental laziness, as upon revisiting the feat it is right there, plain as day. Thanks for bringing that to my attention - Crusaders being consderably better than Warblades, that's a worthwhile realization. Cheers, Pryor
Hailand 02-14-07, 12:55 AM	According to my SRD, it looks like you need three levels of bard to qualify for Song of the Heart (that's when they get Inspire Competence). Uh, you are right with that. :( Now it's a choice between losing that next crusader level and also an initiator level or always having one less point of inspire courage... Do you know about the spell inspirational boost (Bard1, Spell Compendium)? Now I do, thanks! :) I could use a potion of it together with Song of the White Raven, hm? Since you're using a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and Thicket of Blades is a pretty solid combination. For this build, I personally would have made do without Lingering Music, since it only takes a free action to maintain Inspire Courage[...] Oh my, you are right! That is 1st) very flavorful, because I can keep singing inside combat and 2nd) very nice, because it saves me a feat. :) On the builds: Well, I have decided I will let that Song of the Heart out. I'd rather not lose another initiator level. That's one level earlier funny maneuvers. And that is beneficial to my allies, as well. Thanks for your work, but I will keep going with Bard 2, then. Or interchange the second level somehow. (I love maneuvers!) Me too!!!!!111 :P @Friendly Frog: Thanks, but I knew that and intentionally didn't use this chance. It's just too painful to lose that next IL. :( Now, that I am forced to take at least those 3 levels of bard for Song of the Heart, I will rather skip it. New build coming up soon in the first post! (And still searching badly for a replacement of bard 2) edit: Oh, I could really imagine a level of Dragonshaman. It would give 3 auras, and at least the vigor and senses auras are universally useful!
Hailand 02-14-07, 09:38 AM	Friendly :bump: from the second page. :)
Hailand 02-14-07, 03:54 PM	:bump:
TheOne 02-14-07, 04:50 PM	With snowflake wardance you can add your chr to attack as long as you are using a one handed weapon slashing weapon with nothing in your offhand. Kusuri-gama works well for this, one handed with reach.
Hailand 02-15-07, 12:06 AM	Hm... Even if I would get a high enough charisma(currently 12...) to make it worthwhile, the Wardance also eats up a music charge, which I can't really afford. :( Thanks for the suggestion, anyway. :)
Chimaera2000 02-15-07, 12:11 AM	I could use a potion of it together with Song of the White Raven, hm? Heck, you could use a wand of it if you wanted! According to either the Sage or the FAQ (I can't remember which), wands use the spell's normal casting time to activate them. That means that you could begin combat by drawing an inspirational boost wand, using a swift action to activate it, then a standard action to activate inspire courage. Alternatively, if you need to melee now, you can forgo the wand and just use Song of the White Raven to swift-action Inspire Courage. Well, I have decided I will let that Song of the Heart out. I'd rather not lose another initiator level. That's one level earlier funny maneuvers. And that is beneficial to my allies, as well. Thanks for your work, but I will keep going with Bard 2, then. Or interchange the second level somehow. Getting rid of Song of the Heart is perfectly viable, but why take the second level of bard, then? One level of bard plus Extra music already gives you five uses of Inspire Courage per day, and one extra spell isn't worth it compared to the benefits offered by crusader. Dragon Shaman is a viable choice except for the BAB loss. The auras are good, though, and you can also qualify for the scaling Draconic Aura feat if you have Dragon Magic.
Hailand 02-15-07, 09:27 AM	Yay! I will be going with a Dragon Shaman, in that case! Thank you!