Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ranthanas 10-30-03, 07:40 AM	I've been leafing through MoTW and realised that in 3.5, Bards can qualify for Shifter due to now having Alter Self on their spell list. IMO, this is the ideal way in to shifter (better even than the druid) because the bard loses less from not progressing in magic while he keeps his skills (and his list is better than the druids), he can dump four of his six stats (he only needs Cha and a little Int), his music (particularly if he hits Bard 9 for Inspire Greatness and Inspire Courage +2). In short he loses even less than the druid and his abilities synergise nicely with the shifter for someone who is able to hit much more easily (always the Shifter's problem) and do a lot outside combat. (He also gets nice skills such as UMD, Bardic Lore and Bluff/Glibness). Has anyone actually tried this? Hmm... Add on a Vow of Poverty and this gets really abusive (but then the shifter with a Vow of Poverty is as bad as the Monk with the same) As for builds (this is the CO board), I've put them onto the 3.5 Bard thread but will add them here with explanations. Bard 10/Shifter 10 Simple, effective but can probably be tweaked. Also Epic Ready. Bard 6/World Speaker 4/Shifter 10 Basic tweak of the above. No point not replacing 4 levels of Bard with 4 of World Speaker. Bard 8/Shifter 8/Holy Liberator 4 BAB +16. Also Divine Grace and Turning allowing access to Divine Might. Not quite Epic Ready (2 levels off) but probably worth it. Bard 8/Shifter 8/Holy Liberator 3/Templar 1 Tweak of the above for slightly better saves and the Mettle ability. Templar/Bard isn't a good RP choice (Templar doesn't fit any of the other classes for that matter) Bard 8/Shifter 8/Memory Smith 4 Again not Epic Ready. On the other hand, gains 4th level spells (including Divine Might), level 12 Bardic Music (including Inspire Greatness) and a BAB of +16. Memory Smith/Shifter is a dificult RP choice but the Smith could easily be replaced by the Battle Rager or possibly the Warrior Skald. As with all poor-spellcasting Bards, it's probably worth dropping a level once you reach Epic to pick up a level in Contemplative for the Mysticism Domain and Cha to all saves (unless you've already become a Holy Liberator or the like)
Funny Slaughter 10-30-03, 08:09 AM	the only problem is that the nerf/change of polymorph in 3.5 made the shifter quasi useless. gs Funny
Eagle Prince 10-30-03, 04:13 PM	I read somewhere that Complete Warrior will have an updated Shifter PrC.
catharz 10-30-03, 08:30 PM	Sounds like a good idea, I especially like the idea of a worldspeaker/shifter. Unfortunately, you won't be able to find any powerful shifter builds in 3.5, as they are automatically outclassed by spellcasters (even the mighty Ranger 4/Sacred fist 8/Shifter 8). The best you can do is make an interesting character. Of course, if you use 3.0 Greater wildshape rules, they are still quite good (and a Bard 5/Memory smith 5/Shifter 10 would be an awesome meele build, perhaps usurping SF).
Zeffan the Fighting Man 12-02-03, 01:40 AM	:bump: zeff