Base Class Equivalency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Base Class Equivalency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Random Sasquatch
01-25-06, 03:13 PM Question for CO regs.

There is a pretty general consensus on this board on the most/least powerful base character classes in 3.5. My question is, if 2 different base class characters were both played by the same "average" PC, what would the level equivalency be for various classes in terms of solo combat against a variety of creatures?

](ie: does Wiz3 = Fit6 in terms of combat against low CR creatures? or does Psion14 = Cleric12 in terms of combat against med/high CR creatures?)[/COLOR]

(so maybe, in terms of solo combat effectiveness... Druid5 = Cleric6 = Monk9 = Fighter12 and so forth)

Also, it seems that there is a general consensus that casters are more powerful (even at low levels) than warriors/noncasters. If 2 base classes were leveling at the same rate, at what level do casters appear to overtake noncasters?

-RS
Seeker of Truth
01-25-06, 03:47 PM I think your question is too large to answer. I'd start by asking something like at what level could a base class have a 90% chance to kill 3 CR 1 Orcs. Encounter starts at the range where when opposed spot/hide move silently/listen checks indicate the groups become aware of each other.

That seems to be to be a good starting point ... I don't think many base clases would have a good chance to solo them at level 1, a wizard with sleep and the right skills would have a good chance, that's about it.

For that encounter I'd say

Wiz 1 = Fighter 2 = Barb 2 = Clr 2 = Druid 1 = Ranger 2 = Pal 3 = Rog 2 = Mnk 3 = Clr 3

I'm assuming for this that all classes are essentially built to beat just this encounter (but without resorting to limited use items like potions), and I've probably still got it wrong.
(I'm probably overlooking some cleric spell that will make this fight much easier, or I'm underestimating the clerics ability to do damage after spenting the resources to get AC to 22)
Ashlan
01-25-06, 11:35 PM For that encounter I'd say

Wiz 1 = Fighter 2 = Barb 2 = Clr 2 = Druid 1 = Ranger 2 = Pal 3 = Rog 2 = Mnk 3 = Clr 3

I'm assuming for this that all classes are essentially built to beat just this encounter (but without resorting to limited use items like potions), and I've probably still got it wrong.
(I'm probably overlooking some cleric spell that will make this fight much easier, or I'm underestimating the clerics ability to do damage after spenting the resources to get AC to 22)

You are also overlooking the Bard class and have Clr twice (with different levels) :P

Ash
Bard-of-all-trades
01-26-06, 12:35 AM Some of my friends and I were just talking about this very same thing. It was a conversation about how in 3E everyone has the same XP chart as opposed to 1st and 2nd Ed. that had different XP charts for each class. What you’re essentially asking is what we were talking about. Here was the gist of the logic: the Thief gained levels the fastest, followed by Fighters, then Cleric and finally Magic User (you gotta love the names, dontcha?). You could have had a party of 4 consisting of the aforementioned classes each with the same XP and have 4 different levels. This is why Fighters seemed better because they had a better THAC0 than any other class of their level and, since they leveled so much faster, they were quite deadly. This is also why Back-stab was so killer because it was level dependant and Thieves leveled relatively easy. Also why Magic Users seemed so weak because they took forever and a day to level up, but when they did - look out!

But in answer to your questions, #1) I don't think you can objectively be able to equate levels like that because there are too many factors to consider. #2) Almost immediately. How can a noncaster try and come close to a True Strike? Or a Cure Light Wounds? Casters "out-class" noncasters right from the get-go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Random Sasquatch 01-25-06, 03:13 PM	Question for CO regs. There is a pretty general consensus on this board on the most/least powerful base character classes in 3.5. My question is, if 2 different base class characters were both played by the same "average" PC, what would the level equivalency be for various classes in terms of solo combat against a variety of creatures? ](ie: does Wiz3 = Fit6 in terms of combat against low CR creatures? or does Psion14 = Cleric12 in terms of combat against med/high CR creatures?)[/COLOR] (so maybe, in terms of solo combat effectiveness... Druid5 = Cleric6 = Monk9 = Fighter12 and so forth) Also, it seems that there is a general consensus that casters are more powerful (even at low levels) than warriors/noncasters. If 2 base classes were leveling at the same rate, at what level do casters appear to overtake noncasters? -RS
Seeker of Truth 01-25-06, 03:47 PM	I think your question is too large to answer. I'd start by asking something like at what level could a base class have a 90% chance to kill 3 CR 1 Orcs. Encounter starts at the range where when opposed spot/hide move silently/listen checks indicate the groups become aware of each other. That seems to be to be a good starting point ... I don't think many base clases would have a good chance to solo them at level 1, a wizard with sleep and the right skills would have a good chance, that's about it. For that encounter I'd say Wiz 1 = Fighter 2 = Barb 2 = Clr 2 = Druid 1 = Ranger 2 = Pal 3 = Rog 2 = Mnk 3 = Clr 3 I'm assuming for this that all classes are essentially built to beat just this encounter (but without resorting to limited use items like potions), and I've probably still got it wrong. (I'm probably overlooking some cleric spell that will make this fight much easier, or I'm underestimating the clerics ability to do damage after spenting the resources to get AC to 22)
Ashlan 01-25-06, 11:35 PM	For that encounter I'd say Wiz 1 = Fighter 2 = Barb 2 = Clr 2 = Druid 1 = Ranger 2 = Pal 3 = Rog 2 = Mnk 3 = Clr 3 I'm assuming for this that all classes are essentially built to beat just this encounter (but without resorting to limited use items like potions), and I've probably still got it wrong. (I'm probably overlooking some cleric spell that will make this fight much easier, or I'm underestimating the clerics ability to do damage after spenting the resources to get AC to 22) You are also overlooking the Bard class and have Clr twice (with different levels) :P Ash
Bard-of-all-trades 01-26-06, 12:35 AM	Some of my friends and I were just talking about this very same thing. It was a conversation about how in 3E everyone has the same XP chart as opposed to 1st and 2nd Ed. that had different XP charts for each class. What you’re essentially asking is what we were talking about. Here was the gist of the logic: the Thief gained levels the fastest, followed by Fighters, then Cleric and finally Magic User (you gotta love the names, dontcha?). You could have had a party of 4 consisting of the aforementioned classes each with the same XP and have 4 different levels. This is why Fighters seemed better because they had a better THAC0 than any other class of their level and, since they leveled so much faster, they were quite deadly. This is also why Back-stab was so killer because it was level dependant and Thieves leveled relatively easy. Also why Magic Users seemed so weak because they took forever and a day to level up, but when they did - look out! But in answer to your questions, #1) I don't think you can objectively be able to equate levels like that because there are too many factors to consider. #2) Almost immediately. How can a noncaster try and come close to a True Strike? Or a Cure Light Wounds? Casters "out-class" noncasters right from the get-go.