Bash/improve my char please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bash/improve my char please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khalon
04-07-04, 10:47 PM Ok so i wanted to make myself a sorcerer for my upcoming game set in Silver Marches FR. We will start from the beginning (1st level) and I need some feedback for my thoughts on my build.

Available books: Core books (3.0 + 3.5), Complete Warrior.
And to a lesser degree (not mine), allmost any official FR/d&d books.

This is made in 3.5, but not sure if it will be played in 3.5 or 3.0.

Race: human
Class: Sorcer/fighter/(spellsword???)
Align: CG
Rolled stats: 10 12 14 16 17 18 :D
Used this way: Str10 Dex17 Con16 Int12 Wis14 Cha18
(put stat points at leves primarily on Cha and Con???)

Skill ranks: bluff 2, concentration 4, craft (?), knowledge arcana 2,
profession (?), spellcraft 2. And some CC skills for flavour: Diplomacy 1, intimidate 1, sense motive 1.

Feats at 1st level: Combat casting, spellcasting prodigy (???)

Languages: Common, undercommon.

Spells Known: 0th - detect magic, read magic, light, prestidigitation. 1st - Mage armour, magic missile.

Spells per day: 0th - 6 (one bonus, high cha)
1st - 4 (-----------"-------------)

Weapons: Sling (bullets), Light mace, dagger.

-----

Thoughts on the future.
1st - sorcerer: Combat casting, spellcating prodigy
2nd - sorcerer1/fighter1: Quick draw
3rd - sorcerer2/fighter1: ????
4th - sorcerer2/fighter2: Improved initiative
5th - sorcerer3/fighter2
6th - ?
7th - ?
8th - ?
9th - ?
10th - ?

The reason for the fighter levels was to get a boost of feats in the start and get some weapon prof's and bab. Allso it's nice to have a wider range of good saves in lower levels. My idea further was to maybe go a few spellsword levels, to get the arcane spell failure down a bit, and use a mithril chainshirt or something. I will go for a char that is somewhat capable of taking care of himself in close quarters as well as being a spellcaster. But I will focus on his Sorcerer progression mainly. Giving him way more levels of Sorc than fighter(-based classes). General feats will be focused on increasing his spellcasting ability but his fighter feats will be more for quickness/AC/survival...

I have read the gish stuff and found not too much help there because most gish builds focus on being a fighter. I allso searched but find too few sorcerer builds to really get much help there. And please do not tell me to be a wizard, sorcerer was my decision... i just love it for the RP and flavour. But please come with your ideas!

Any thoughts?
Mith
04-07-04, 11:22 PM Well, I would recommend a few changes:

Stats:
Str - 12
Dex - 16
Con - 17
Int - 14
Wis - 10
Cha - 18

Con > Dex, for a character intended to be a primary spellcaster.
Wis should be a dump stat - you'll already have a high will save. Int for skills is much better. Even Str is better for weapons damage. (Composite bows of melee weapons.)

Class: Sorcerers should, IMO, take Paladin for the fighter class. (If your character can handle lawful good, of course.) Fighter nets you 2 feats. Paladin nets you +4 to all saves (with starting Cha), Lay on hands (not much but it can help stabalize people.), and detect evil at will. The other abilities are nice, but Divine Grace is awsome.

If you don't want to play a paladin then yeah, go fighter.

Also, don't use Combat Casting. If you really, really must, get Skill Focus Concentration. But Combat Casting is bad - it only applies to casting on the defensive, and if you are trying to melee-cast anyways, your foes can still use ready actions to disrupt you, avoiding your bonus. Skill Focus always works.
SpiritGlyph
04-07-04, 11:22 PM If you want to be able to fight in melee, you have to accept that your spellcasting will suffer from it. With that strength of 10, your light mace is going to be doing a less than impressive 1d6 damage, and you're not going to be particularly accurate with it.

Something you might want to look at is the Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana. In exchange for 1 less spell known and spell per day for each spell level, you'd get d8 hit dice, a Cleric's BAB, proficiency with the one-handed melee weapon of your choice, and the ability to cast in light armor without arcane spell failure.
Mith
04-07-04, 11:30 PM OK, this build assumes that you can access 3.0 splatbooks, even though they weren't specified. (They sound like they would fit under "d&d official books".)

For a spellcaster with a small amount of melee prowess, I would recommend using:
Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Divine Oracle 2/Sacred Exorcist 8

This build has +14 BAB and 18 caster levels. It also gets two prestige domains to sorcerer spells known, which helps make up for the dropped caster levels. You have 15% ASF reduction, which means that you can wear a mithril chain shirt and use a mithril heavy shield without ASF. If you have access to the BoED, you can instead use the twilight enhancement to your armor and shield to use mithril fullplate and a mithril heavy shield.

If this sort of build interests you, I can go into more detail.
I can also post builds that are far closer to primary spellcasters if you want.
If you decide to go complete gish, we can do some pretty cool stuff with, say, 16 caster levels and +18 BAB. These builds are more "Melee combatant with decent arcane magic" than "Spellcaster with decent melee capability."
Khalon
04-07-04, 11:30 PM Ok, no Lg align, i hate it! So no paladin.

The wis thing: It's mainly for the Rp reasons. I love perceptive chars but i will reconsider the stats.

Combat casting: Well maybe i will switch it for skill focus, but there is not any better feats at 1st level?

and yes, i know my mace will stink, but at higher levels i thought about getting myself a rapier and go for weapon finesse and maybe get me a keen one too. But that's just me. But maube i should go for something different? Any other ideas?

And no thoughts on spellsword progression? And the armour?

Thanks for the help so far at least. :D
Khalon
04-07-04, 11:39 PM Originally posted by Mith
OK, this build assumes that you can access 3.0 splatbooks, even though they weren't specified. (They sound like they would fit under "d&d official books".)

For a spellcaster with a small amount of melee prowess, I would recommend using:
Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Divine Oracle 2/Sacred Exorcist 8

This build has +14 BAB and 18 caster levels. It also gets two prestige domains to sorcerer spells known, which helps make up for the dropped caster levels. You have 15% ASF reduction, which means that you can wear a mithril chain shirt and use a mithril heavy shield without ASF. If you have access to the BoED, you can instead use the twilight enhancement to your armor and shield to use mithril fullplate and a mithril heavy shield.

If this sort of build interests you, I can go into more detail.
I can also post builds that are far closer to primary spellcasters if you want.
If you decide to go complete gish, we can do some pretty cool stuff with, say, 16 caster levels and +18 BAB. These builds are more "Melee combatant with decent arcane magic" than "Spellcaster with decent melee capability."

Sorry but i have never actually looked over Divine oracle and sacred exorsist. Where can they be found?

And the main idea behind this char was to go for a bit of melee in the lower levels and a few feats to improve the char all over. Then at higher levels go straight for a devastating arcane caster. I want a char that can manage on his own and be independent as well as an asset to the group. Heh, this time i really want a powerfull nuker! :smirk:

Any ideas for a, let's say, sorcerer16/fighter4 build? Or maybe a SorcererX/fighterx/spellswordx - i mainly wanted to use just core books and CW, because i do not know how accessable the other books will be.

Hmm, and maybe any ideas for a better race than human? It is after all a bit boring(?).

So, any help is welcomed with open arms and a great :D .
Mith
04-07-04, 11:39 PM Assuming that you want to go more gish style than spellcaster-with-a-sword style, you could use something like:

Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 9.

This gives 15 levels of sorcerer casting, BAB +18, hit points 4+3d4+2d10+5d8+9d6 +20*Con bonus at level 20 (69+20*Con bonus average), Channel Spell 3/day, 4 fighter bonus feats, and -20% ASF.

You can also go:
Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 8. This is basically the same, but it trades 1 point of BAB for 1 level of spellcasting (and gets level 8 spells instead of level 7 spells.)

Edit: Well, I wouldn't advise Sorcerer 16/Fighter 4. As you can see above, we can do much better than that with just 3.5 core +CW.

I think that Human really is, by far, the best core race to use. If you can use online WotC stuff, Aasmir 0 is killer. +2 Cha, no stat penalty, and outsider type (for polymorph.)

If you can get your hands on the Dracomnicon (spelling?), you can do some cool stuff with Dragon Slayer (proficiencies to get into SS, and it gets caster progression at level 1. If you can do this, we might want to look into that.
Khalon
04-07-04, 11:48 PM No draconomicon in the group, too bad.

And yeah, help me with a build for 3.5/3.0 core and CW!

I'd love to see what you got. suggestions for good feats/spells/weapons/armour/classes, all of it! You people are one big library of Knowledge (power) +20...

-thanks!
CompleteSatori
04-08-04, 12:05 AM Were I you, I would rearrange stats thusly:

Str 14
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 18

With the following build: The Exotic Spellchanneler (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2994165#post2994165)

With your stats you can be a very successful melee combatant, while remaining a pretty potent caster. If you want access to higher level spells then Eldritch Knight is maybe the way to go, but it is a very boring way to go. With my build you will have 7th level spells, cast as a free action 4 times a day, can channel any spell you know into your weapon, gaining a bonus to hit according to the level of the spell (RMb), have free Still/Silent/Empower/Quicken feats, be able to wear Heavy Armor if you wish (as long as its Mithril) without Arcane Spell Failure, have excellent base saves (11/5/15), and you will have a +16 base attack.
If you want more spellcasting and dont mind losing BaB, you can trade 2 levels of Spellsword for the last 2 levels of RMb, gaining you free Maximize up to 5 times a day, a caster level of 16 instead of 14, and you will only lose 5% ASF, and 1/day Spell Channeling from Spellsword, while still having an Attack bonus of 15.
Khalon
04-08-04, 12:18 AM /\
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What books are used in this build?
Mith
04-08-04, 12:27 AM So, I'm going to go with core+CW only, and I'm going to make my target 16 levels of sorcerer casting (Since you indicated that you were willing to go Sorcerer 16/Fighter 4.)

This suggests (to me) using a Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 9/Archmage 2.

This gets you into SS in good order, and allows you to use the very nice mithril chain shirt/mithril heavy shield combo. It gives 16 levels of Sorcerer casting, 4 fighter bonus feats, and 2 high arcana. BAB is +17.

The build could look like:
Human
Level-Class-Feats/Specials
1-Fighter-Improved Initiative (Fighter Bonus), Improved Toughness, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
2-Sorcerer
3-Sorcerer-Empower Spell
4-Fighter-Weapon Focus (Your Favorite Weapon)
5-Sorcerer
6-Sorcerer-Augment Summoning
7-Spellsword
8-Spellsword-Quick Draw
9-Spellsword-Spell Penetration
10-Eldritch Knight-Arcane Strike
11-Eldritch Knight
12-Eldritch Knight-Greater Spell Penetration
13-Eldritch Knight
14-Eldritch Knight
15-Eldritch Knight-Spell Focus (Illusion)
16-Eldritch Knight
17-Eldritch Knight
18-Eldritch Knight-Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
19-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Shaping)
20-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Elements)

The feats are nowhere near optimized. You have lots of feats for this character, so basically I just said "Hey, Archmage would be nice to tack onto the end," and stuck in the feats for that. Then I said, "Hey, if we're already gonna blow some feats on spell focus, we could go for augment summoning. Maybe the character could summon lots of creatures for flanking/grappling/mass beatings." I added arcane strike because it adds a lot of versatility to any spellcaster/fighter, and the spell penetration feats to make up for lost caster levels. The rest of the feats I just used for some standard fighter fare and Improved Toughness to help your HP.

When you decide what kind of caster you want, we can work on these some more. Do you use your spells to buff yourself, or do you actually cast spells on your enemies? If you would prefer not to directly target your enemies, you could drop the spell penetrations and just go with summoning for your combat spells.

Bah, it's late and my mind is getting fuzzy. I'll mess with it more later. For core+CW only, the level progression is reasonable.
CompleteSatori
04-08-04, 12:34 AM Originally posted by Khalon
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What books are used in this build?

Spellsword is Complete Warrior, Raumathari Battlemage is Unapproachable East.

Fighter and Sorcerer are courtesy of 3.5 core PHB. :rolleyes:
Khalon
04-08-04, 12:35 AM Thanks Mith, ill look into it. Looks ok, now but it's late and i need to sleep soon.

As for your questions on flavour of the caster:

Was thinking of a nuker, going hard on offensive spells like silly ol' fireballs and stuff. And some nice protection for myself (mage armour, blur, blink, mirror image, fly etc.)

Thanks anyhow!
Khalon
04-08-04, 12:37 AM Originally posted by CompleteSatori
Spellsword is Complete Warrior, Raumathari Battlemage is Unapproachable East.

Fighter and Sorcerer are courtesy of 3.5 core PHB. :rolleyes:

Never studied Unapproachable east too much, but ill look into that too. Thanks for the help. It looks pretty darn good. :smirk:
CompleteSatori
04-08-04, 12:54 AM Raum Battlemage is 3/4 base attack, Will favored, +1 spellcasting (except level 5), and d4 HD.

Spellsword is 1/1 base attack, Fort and Will favored, +1/2 spellcasting, and d8 HD.

And, anytime you need help, thats what we are here for!
Mith
04-08-04, 01:38 AM OK, so that gives me a better idea of what you need. I'm going to repost the build, with some feats switched around. If you are going for a "nuker" flavor, I think that Mastery of elements and shaping are excellent for you, so Archmage should stay. (Note the extreme un-synergy of my previous build - Archmage abilities to focus on nuking, feats to focus on summoning, and so on are not a wise combo.) I would also switch the build around a little bit in a way that may drop some BAB to manage SS 5 and caster level 16. So, my updated build suggestion would be:
Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 6/Archmage 2.

Human
Level-Class-Feats/Specials
1-Fighter-Improved Initiative (Fighter Bonus), Improved Toughness, Weapon Focus (Your Favorite Weapon)
2-Sorcerer
3-Sorcerer-Arcane Strike
4-Sorcerer
5-Sorcerer
6-Sorcerer-Spell Penetration
7-Sorcerer
8-Spellsword
9-Spellsword-Greater Spell Penetration, Empower Spell (Fighter/Metamagic Bonus Feat)
10-Spellsword
11-Spellsword
12-Spellsword-Spell Focus (Evocation)
13-Eldritch Knight-Quick Draw
14-Eldritch Knight
15-Eldritch Knight-Spell Focus (Illusion)
16-Eldritch Knight
17-Eldritch Knight
18-Eldritch Knight-Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
19-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Shaping)
20-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Elements)

This build has:
Caster Level 16
BAB +16
3 Bonus Fighter Feats
Channel Spell 3/Day
2 High Arcana
-20% ASF
HP are 10+8d4+5d8+6d6+Con (Average 63+Con)

-20% ASF allows you to use a Mithril Breastplate and a Mithril Heavy Shield.

Arange stats like:
Str - 16
Dex - 14
Con - 17
Int - 12
Wis - 10
Cha - 18
Put one increase in Con, and 4 in Cha. With 1 increase in Con and improved toughness, you get 5 HP/level besides your hit die - average 223 at level 20 with an amulet of health +6. That's not invincible, but it is respectable.

Levels 2-4 will be wierd, because you'll be pretty bad as both a fighter and a caster. By level 5, you should have transitioned into a primary caster, and be mostly uninvolved in physical combat. At level 8, you start to come into your own. Grab a Mithril Chain Shirt for 1,000 gp and you can start getting involved in melee combat again. By level 10, you should be firmly established as a melee-caster, and at level 12 you get channel spell and your power jumps up a bit. After that you pretty much keep the same schtick, and just improve your abilities with EK and eventualy Archmage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khalon 04-07-04, 10:47 PM	Ok so i wanted to make myself a sorcerer for my upcoming game set in Silver Marches FR. We will start from the beginning (1st level) and I need some feedback for my thoughts on my build. Available books: Core books (3.0 + 3.5), Complete Warrior. And to a lesser degree (not mine), allmost any official FR/d&d books. This is made in 3.5, but not sure if it will be played in 3.5 or 3.0. Race: human Class: Sorcer/fighter/(spellsword???) Align: CG Rolled stats: 10 12 14 16 17 18 :D Used this way: Str10 Dex17 Con16 Int12 Wis14 Cha18 (put stat points at leves primarily on Cha and Con???) Skill ranks: bluff 2, concentration 4, craft (?), knowledge arcana 2, profession (?), spellcraft 2. And some CC skills for flavour: Diplomacy 1, intimidate 1, sense motive 1. Feats at 1st level: Combat casting, spellcasting prodigy (???) Languages: Common, undercommon. Spells Known: 0th - detect magic, read magic, light, prestidigitation. 1st - Mage armour, magic missile. Spells per day: 0th - 6 (one bonus, high cha) 1st - 4 (-----------"-------------) Weapons: Sling (bullets), Light mace, dagger. ----- Thoughts on the future. 1st - sorcerer: Combat casting, spellcating prodigy 2nd - sorcerer1/fighter1: Quick draw 3rd - sorcerer2/fighter1: ???? 4th - sorcerer2/fighter2: Improved initiative 5th - sorcerer3/fighter2 6th - ? 7th - ? 8th - ? 9th - ? 10th - ? The reason for the fighter levels was to get a boost of feats in the start and get some weapon prof's and bab. Allso it's nice to have a wider range of good saves in lower levels. My idea further was to maybe go a few spellsword levels, to get the arcane spell failure down a bit, and use a mithril chainshirt or something. I will go for a char that is somewhat capable of taking care of himself in close quarters as well as being a spellcaster. But I will focus on his Sorcerer progression mainly. Giving him way more levels of Sorc than fighter(-based classes). General feats will be focused on increasing his spellcasting ability but his fighter feats will be more for quickness/AC/survival... I have read the gish stuff and found not too much help there because most gish builds focus on being a fighter. I allso searched but find too few sorcerer builds to really get much help there. And please do not tell me to be a wizard, sorcerer was my decision... i just love it for the RP and flavour. But please come with your ideas! Any thoughts?
Mith 04-07-04, 11:22 PM	Well, I would recommend a few changes: Stats: Str - 12 Dex - 16 Con - 17 Int - 14 Wis - 10 Cha - 18 Con > Dex, for a character intended to be a primary spellcaster. Wis should be a dump stat - you'll already have a high will save. Int for skills is much better. Even Str is better for weapons damage. (Composite bows of melee weapons.) Class: Sorcerers should, IMO, take Paladin for the fighter class. (If your character can handle lawful good, of course.) Fighter nets you 2 feats. Paladin nets you +4 to all saves (with starting Cha), Lay on hands (not much but it can help stabalize people.), and detect evil at will. The other abilities are nice, but Divine Grace is awsome. If you don't want to play a paladin then yeah, go fighter. Also, don't use Combat Casting. If you really, really must, get Skill Focus Concentration. But Combat Casting is bad - it only applies to casting on the defensive, and if you are trying to melee-cast anyways, your foes can still use ready actions to disrupt you, avoiding your bonus. Skill Focus always works.
SpiritGlyph 04-07-04, 11:22 PM	If you want to be able to fight in melee, you have to accept that your spellcasting will suffer from it. With that strength of 10, your light mace is going to be doing a less than impressive 1d6 damage, and you're not going to be particularly accurate with it. Something you might want to look at is the Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana. In exchange for 1 less spell known and spell per day for each spell level, you'd get d8 hit dice, a Cleric's BAB, proficiency with the one-handed melee weapon of your choice, and the ability to cast in light armor without arcane spell failure.
Mith 04-07-04, 11:30 PM	OK, this build assumes that you can access 3.0 splatbooks, even though they weren't specified. (They sound like they would fit under "d&d official books".) For a spellcaster with a small amount of melee prowess, I would recommend using: Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Divine Oracle 2/Sacred Exorcist 8 This build has +14 BAB and 18 caster levels. It also gets two prestige domains to sorcerer spells known, which helps make up for the dropped caster levels. You have 15% ASF reduction, which means that you can wear a mithril chain shirt and use a mithril heavy shield without ASF. If you have access to the BoED, you can instead use the twilight enhancement to your armor and shield to use mithril fullplate and a mithril heavy shield. If this sort of build interests you, I can go into more detail. I can also post builds that are far closer to primary spellcasters if you want. If you decide to go complete gish, we can do some pretty cool stuff with, say, 16 caster levels and +18 BAB. These builds are more "Melee combatant with decent arcane magic" than "Spellcaster with decent melee capability."
Khalon 04-07-04, 11:30 PM	Ok, no Lg align, i hate it! So no paladin. The wis thing: It's mainly for the Rp reasons. I love perceptive chars but i will reconsider the stats. Combat casting: Well maybe i will switch it for skill focus, but there is not any better feats at 1st level? and yes, i know my mace will stink, but at higher levels i thought about getting myself a rapier and go for weapon finesse and maybe get me a keen one too. But that's just me. But maube i should go for something different? Any other ideas? And no thoughts on spellsword progression? And the armour? Thanks for the help so far at least. :D
Khalon 04-07-04, 11:39 PM	Originally posted by Mith OK, this build assumes that you can access 3.0 splatbooks, even though they weren't specified. (They sound like they would fit under "d&d official books".) For a spellcaster with a small amount of melee prowess, I would recommend using: Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Divine Oracle 2/Sacred Exorcist 8 This build has +14 BAB and 18 caster levels. It also gets two prestige domains to sorcerer spells known, which helps make up for the dropped caster levels. You have 15% ASF reduction, which means that you can wear a mithril chain shirt and use a mithril heavy shield without ASF. If you have access to the BoED, you can instead use the twilight enhancement to your armor and shield to use mithril fullplate and a mithril heavy shield. If this sort of build interests you, I can go into more detail. I can also post builds that are far closer to primary spellcasters if you want. If you decide to go complete gish, we can do some pretty cool stuff with, say, 16 caster levels and +18 BAB. These builds are more "Melee combatant with decent arcane magic" than "Spellcaster with decent melee capability." Sorry but i have never actually looked over Divine oracle and sacred exorsist. Where can they be found? And the main idea behind this char was to go for a bit of melee in the lower levels and a few feats to improve the char all over. Then at higher levels go straight for a devastating arcane caster. I want a char that can manage on his own and be independent as well as an asset to the group. Heh, this time i really want a powerfull nuker! :smirk: Any ideas for a, let's say, sorcerer16/fighter4 build? Or maybe a SorcererX/fighterx/spellswordx - i mainly wanted to use just core books and CW, because i do not know how accessable the other books will be. Hmm, and maybe any ideas for a better race than human? It is after all a bit boring(?). So, any help is welcomed with open arms and a great :D .
Mith 04-07-04, 11:39 PM	Assuming that you want to go more gish style than spellcaster-with-a-sword style, you could use something like: Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 9. This gives 15 levels of sorcerer casting, BAB +18, hit points 4+3d4+2d10+5d8+9d6 +20Con bonus at level 20 (69+20Con bonus average), Channel Spell 3/day, 4 fighter bonus feats, and -20% ASF. You can also go: Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 8. This is basically the same, but it trades 1 point of BAB for 1 level of spellcasting (and gets level 8 spells instead of level 7 spells.) Edit: Well, I wouldn't advise Sorcerer 16/Fighter 4. As you can see above, we can do much better than that with just 3.5 core +CW. I think that Human really is, by far, the best core race to use. If you can use online WotC stuff, Aasmir 0 is killer. +2 Cha, no stat penalty, and outsider type (for polymorph.) If you can get your hands on the Dracomnicon (spelling?), you can do some cool stuff with Dragon Slayer (proficiencies to get into SS, and it gets caster progression at level 1. If you can do this, we might want to look into that.
Khalon 04-07-04, 11:48 PM	No draconomicon in the group, too bad. And yeah, help me with a build for 3.5/3.0 core and CW! I'd love to see what you got. suggestions for good feats/spells/weapons/armour/classes, all of it! You people are one big library of Knowledge (power) +20... -thanks!
CompleteSatori 04-08-04, 12:05 AM	Were I you, I would rearrange stats thusly: Str 14 Dex 12 Con 17 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 18 With the following build: The Exotic Spellchanneler (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2994165#post2994165) With your stats you can be a very successful melee combatant, while remaining a pretty potent caster. If you want access to higher level spells then Eldritch Knight is maybe the way to go, but it is a very boring way to go. With my build you will have 7th level spells, cast as a free action 4 times a day, can channel any spell you know into your weapon, gaining a bonus to hit according to the level of the spell (RMb), have free Still/Silent/Empower/Quicken feats, be able to wear Heavy Armor if you wish (as long as its Mithril) without Arcane Spell Failure, have excellent base saves (11/5/15), and you will have a +16 base attack. If you want more spellcasting and dont mind losing BaB, you can trade 2 levels of Spellsword for the last 2 levels of RMb, gaining you free Maximize up to 5 times a day, a caster level of 16 instead of 14, and you will only lose 5% ASF, and 1/day Spell Channeling from Spellsword, while still having an Attack bonus of 15.
Khalon 04-08-04, 12:18 AM	/\ \| \| What books are used in this build?
Mith 04-08-04, 12:27 AM	So, I'm going to go with core+CW only, and I'm going to make my target 16 levels of sorcerer casting (Since you indicated that you were willing to go Sorcerer 16/Fighter 4.) This suggests (to me) using a Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 9/Archmage 2. This gets you into SS in good order, and allows you to use the very nice mithril chain shirt/mithril heavy shield combo. It gives 16 levels of Sorcerer casting, 4 fighter bonus feats, and 2 high arcana. BAB is +17. The build could look like: Human Level-Class-Feats/Specials 1-Fighter-Improved Initiative (Fighter Bonus), Improved Toughness, Spell Focus (Conjuration) 2-Sorcerer 3-Sorcerer-Empower Spell 4-Fighter-Weapon Focus (Your Favorite Weapon) 5-Sorcerer 6-Sorcerer-Augment Summoning 7-Spellsword 8-Spellsword-Quick Draw 9-Spellsword-Spell Penetration 10-Eldritch Knight-Arcane Strike 11-Eldritch Knight 12-Eldritch Knight-Greater Spell Penetration 13-Eldritch Knight 14-Eldritch Knight 15-Eldritch Knight-Spell Focus (Illusion) 16-Eldritch Knight 17-Eldritch Knight 18-Eldritch Knight-Skill Focus (Spellcraft) 19-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Shaping) 20-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Elements) The feats are nowhere near optimized. You have lots of feats for this character, so basically I just said "Hey, Archmage would be nice to tack onto the end," and stuck in the feats for that. Then I said, "Hey, if we're already gonna blow some feats on spell focus, we could go for augment summoning. Maybe the character could summon lots of creatures for flanking/grappling/mass beatings." I added arcane strike because it adds a lot of versatility to any spellcaster/fighter, and the spell penetration feats to make up for lost caster levels. The rest of the feats I just used for some standard fighter fare and Improved Toughness to help your HP. When you decide what kind of caster you want, we can work on these some more. Do you use your spells to buff yourself, or do you actually cast spells on your enemies? If you would prefer not to directly target your enemies, you could drop the spell penetrations and just go with summoning for your combat spells. Bah, it's late and my mind is getting fuzzy. I'll mess with it more later. For core+CW only, the level progression is reasonable.
CompleteSatori 04-08-04, 12:34 AM	Originally posted by Khalon /\ \| \| What books are used in this build? Spellsword is Complete Warrior, Raumathari Battlemage is Unapproachable East. Fighter and Sorcerer are courtesy of 3.5 core PHB. :rolleyes:
Khalon 04-08-04, 12:35 AM	Thanks Mith, ill look into it. Looks ok, now but it's late and i need to sleep soon. As for your questions on flavour of the caster: Was thinking of a nuker, going hard on offensive spells like silly ol' fireballs and stuff. And some nice protection for myself (mage armour, blur, blink, mirror image, fly etc.) Thanks anyhow!
Khalon 04-08-04, 12:37 AM	Originally posted by CompleteSatori Spellsword is Complete Warrior, Raumathari Battlemage is Unapproachable East. Fighter and Sorcerer are courtesy of 3.5 core PHB. :rolleyes: Never studied Unapproachable east too much, but ill look into that too. Thanks for the help. It looks pretty darn good. :smirk:
CompleteSatori 04-08-04, 12:54 AM	Raum Battlemage is 3/4 base attack, Will favored, +1 spellcasting (except level 5), and d4 HD. Spellsword is 1/1 base attack, Fort and Will favored, +1/2 spellcasting, and d8 HD. And, anytime you need help, thats what we are here for!
Mith 04-08-04, 01:38 AM	OK, so that gives me a better idea of what you need. I'm going to repost the build, with some feats switched around. If you are going for a "nuker" flavor, I think that Mastery of elements and shaping are excellent for you, so Archmage should stay. (Note the extreme un-synergy of my previous build - Archmage abilities to focus on nuking, feats to focus on summoning, and so on are not a wise combo.) I would also switch the build around a little bit in a way that may drop some BAB to manage SS 5 and caster level 16. So, my updated build suggestion would be: Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 6/Archmage 2. Human Level-Class-Feats/Specials 1-Fighter-Improved Initiative (Fighter Bonus), Improved Toughness, Weapon Focus (Your Favorite Weapon) 2-Sorcerer 3-Sorcerer-Arcane Strike 4-Sorcerer 5-Sorcerer 6-Sorcerer-Spell Penetration 7-Sorcerer 8-Spellsword 9-Spellsword-Greater Spell Penetration, Empower Spell (Fighter/Metamagic Bonus Feat) 10-Spellsword 11-Spellsword 12-Spellsword-Spell Focus (Evocation) 13-Eldritch Knight-Quick Draw 14-Eldritch Knight 15-Eldritch Knight-Spell Focus (Illusion) 16-Eldritch Knight 17-Eldritch Knight 18-Eldritch Knight-Skill Focus (Spellcraft) 19-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Shaping) 20-Archmage-High Arcana (Mastery of Elements) This build has: Caster Level 16 BAB +16 3 Bonus Fighter Feats Channel Spell 3/Day 2 High Arcana -20% ASF HP are 10+8d4+5d8+6d6+Con (Average 63+Con) -20% ASF allows you to use a Mithril Breastplate and a Mithril Heavy Shield. Arange stats like: Str - 16 Dex - 14 Con - 17 Int - 12 Wis - 10 Cha - 18 Put one increase in Con, and 4 in Cha. With 1 increase in Con and improved toughness, you get 5 HP/level besides your hit die - average 223 at level 20 with an amulet of health +6. That's not invincible, but it is respectable. Levels 2-4 will be wierd, because you'll be pretty bad as both a fighter and a caster. By level 5, you should have transitioned into a primary caster, and be mostly uninvolved in physical combat. At level 8, you start to come into your own. Grab a Mithril Chain Shirt for 1,000 gp and you can start getting involved in melee combat again. By level 10, you should be firmly established as a melee-caster, and at level 12 you get channel spell and your power jumps up a bit. After that you pretty much keep the same schtick, and just improve your abilities with EK and eventualy Archmage.