Batman as DnD character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Batman as DnD character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TeenageHeat
10-06-06, 02:32 PM i personally think Ranger/Paladin( the caped crusader, the masked detective, it all fits)

-he's LG because he works with the police
-he's got great charisma (and nice saves, due to Divine Grace)
- Divine Health (badasses don't get sick)
-Track (he is a detective you know.)
- FE: not too sure, Criminals? loll
- Animal Companion: Robin (hahahaha)
- Special Mount- The Batmobile (in a sense)
- he definitely smites evil
- archery style over TWF ( he sure does throw Batarangs)
- Devoted Tracker because we all know the Batmobile is pimped out

anyone wanna help me with this goofy sounding build?
RobbyPants
10-06-06, 02:34 PM Well, Batman is a bit beyond the FRP type D&D system...

I did create him in a homebrew version of the modern d20 I ran once...
First of all, he needs about nat 18s in all his rolls (the guy is supposed to be incredible, if you read the comics).
Other than that, it was a sort of fighter, monk, rogue combo, with maybe a splash of ranger.
I can't say that I have a specific D&D build for you though...
HamHam
10-06-06, 02:43 PM Batman is not LG. He is way, way too batshit insane to be LG. He's like... CN.

And he should use the Vigilante PrC from CAdv.
rilem
10-06-06, 02:47 PM Which Batman? Bob Kane's? Adam West's? Frank Miller's?

You could try a google search for this "batman" and "optimization" restricted to this board. The topic comes up every 6 months. Usual suspects include: Monk, Artificer, Master Inquisitive/Watch Detective, Urban Ranger, Vigilante ...
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
10-06-06, 02:53 PM Which Batman? Bob Kane's? Adam West's? Frank Miller's?

You could try a google search for this "batman" and "optimization" restricted to this board. The topic comes up every 6 months. Usual suspects include: Monk, Artificer, Master Inquisitive/Watch Detective, Urban Ranger, Vigilante ...I have yet to see an Adam West Batman request in here. (Ack - bad rhyming!)

I should start a thread on that though. Simulating Mr. West's campiness, innocent do-gooderiness, and flair will not be easy.
TeenageHeat
10-06-06, 03:03 PM how is Batman insane?

he abides by the law, and seeks to thwart evil because of what happened when he was a kid. if he were CN, he wouldn't be saving people, he'd be blowing stuff up irresponsibly and not caring about anyone but himself.
Tempest Stormwind
10-06-06, 03:07 PM http://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aboards1.wizards.com+%22c haracter+optimization%22+batman&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
rilem
10-06-06, 03:09 PM Again, depends. Sometimes he's a goody-goody. Sometimes he's a sadist. Sometimes he cares about the law. Sometimes he beats up cops and spies on his friends. Sounds a bit chaotic to me. Frank Miller's version is clearly a wacko who thinks dead people are talking to him.

Edit: Thanks Tleilaxu Ghola for the link.
HamHam
10-06-06, 03:14 PM how is Batman insane?

he abides by the law, and seeks to thwart evil because of what happened when he was a kid. if he were CN, he wouldn't be saving people, he'd be blowing stuff up irresponsibly and not caring about anyone but himself.

Lets see if I can remember some of the crazy stuff he's done:

1) Quite the League because some of them screwed with his memories, and proceeded to make a satellite that monitored all super-hero activity and was eventually used by some bad guy to do some crazy bad thing (and then Wonder Woman killed him).

2) Anything with Frank Miller writing ("I'm the ******* Batman!" (http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox7/default.php))

3) In Kingdom Come he was running around teaming up with freaking Lex Luthor and teaming up with Green Arrow and people and being generally Chaotic to Superman's Lawful.

4) I'm sure people who actually read Batman can come up with some more insanse stuff he's done.
Phoenix00
10-06-06, 03:36 PM Batman is a lawful neutral character who has embraced chaos. His is driven by his own personal code of justice, this personal code is what drives him to be batman, a vigilante, judge, and enforcer. Batman realizes the limits of the law, and the "natural" extension of the law the police, this is why he seeks to operate outside the law since the law is limited. Thus he seems to be chaotic, and at times embraces the natural chaos inside all of us, but he does this for the sake of being the angel of lawfulness. To be the bat who drives terror into the hearts of criminals.

Batman is not chaotic neutral, for he does not embrace chaos, he does not embrace anarchy. He acts chaotic at times due to the natural limitness of lawfulness. He doesn't embrace freedom, being a free spirit, challenging tradition, challenging rules and regulations as an ultimate good, no he just merely uses these things as a means to an end. Batman remains invisible, operates outside the normal law, and remains free only for the fact that he must do so or he will either be beaten by the villians or stopped and controled by the police and thus useless for the city of gotham. Regardless even though he acts a certain way his motivations is still to bring things into a personal order.

In other words, Batman acts chaotic for he doesn't want to be lawful stupid.

Describing a complicated character such as Batman on an axis with only 9 different possibilities is why I hate the alingment system.
RobbyPants
10-06-06, 03:41 PM Batman is a lawful neutral character who has embraced chaos.
I would certainly agree with the first half of this.

While Batman has done some chaotic-type things, they are done with the intent of upholding order. Lawful alignments don't mean that you have to obey every law, just that you see law and order as paramount for maintaining and promoting the betterment of people.

I don't quite think I'd go with lawful good for Batman. His whole dark past and badass demenor play more to the lawful neutral side...
Phoenix00
10-06-06, 03:43 PM I would certainly agree with the first half of this.

While Batman has done some chaotic-type things, they are done with the intent of upholding order. Lawful alignments don't mean that you have to obey every law, just that you see law and order as paramount for maintaining and promoting the betterment of people.
Exactly
RobbyPants
10-06-06, 03:50 PM Exactly
w00t! :w00t:

I've always loved Batman, and most vigilante-type PCs/NPCs I've made are modled after him. It is a pretty tough task to make him into a character. His exceptional level of training makes him hard to shoehorn into the typical D&D classes. Even if it's done well, he'd have to be close to level 20 (if not epic) to squeeze in all of the feats he makes use of.
rilem
10-06-06, 03:53 PM Again, that's only some interpretations, very much restricted to the past decade or so (and probably conveying more of a neutral outlook than a lawful one, btw).

The 1970s (esp. TV) and 1940s Batman was very much Lawful Good.

Basically, neither the D&D alignment system nor the class system can realistically encompass a character who has gone through several iterations, varying widely in style and outlook depending on who's writing.
Phoenix00
10-06-06, 04:08 PM Okay here is how I would try to model Batman

First you must realize batman rolled 18s for all his stats, he did it right infront of the DM with no cheating. The DM practally had a heart attack, but this is fricking batman for crying out loud.

Mix Enforcer, Monk, and the Vigilante Prestige Class. Enforcer is a variant paladin, Lawful Neutral appeared in DR310 but is also at the Crystal Keep as a base class. Monk due to his ninja training, how he prefers unarmed attacks, his high AC, and to describe how quick he is (flury +speed bonus). Vigilante PRC just because how well it fits. Batman should be an NPC due to all his wealth from wayne's enterprises that or have an artificer cohort who is never in battle and just makes him new gadgets.

Enforcer 3/Monk 6/Vigilante 10/Enforcer +1

Batman take or make a feat that grants UMD always as a class skill. Batman has lots of gadgets.
Batman take Ascetic Knight feat to grant you +4 to unarmed damage.
Batman has a built in monk's belt in his bat suit. +5 to unarmed damage, that or use the gauntlets from CDivine that does the same thing but requires a feat.
Batman takes Superior Unarmed Strike from TOB +4 to unarmed damage

Batman makes a feat that allows him to get his Wis to AC bonus while wearing his bat suit (which I would call light armor).

19 unarmed damage, Cha to Saves, Mettle through Enforcer, Smite 4 times a day, some low level paladin like spells, 16 BAB, Subdue, Suggestion 1 day. Plus alot of Batman flavor.

And due to his high stats, including 18 intelligence has a decent amount of skillpoints.
Nyelmoor
10-06-06, 04:27 PM LOL. Complete Adventure, page 85. Thats batman right there.
PhaedrusXY
10-06-06, 06:03 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Boy
TeenageHeat
10-06-06, 06:54 PM Adam West Batman- Lawful Good

Batman Batman- Lawful Neutral

makes much more sense

oh and Frank Miller Batman- True Neutral

not wholely chaotic or lawful, all badass.

what would Robin be?
Timespike
10-06-06, 07:38 PM The Christian Bale/Animated Series/Current Comic books batman is probably LG. as far as replicating that sort of charcter in D&D, I'd say a ninja/paladin/shadowbane inquisitor would probably do nicely. You've got your crusade, sneakiness, unarmored combat style...
Timespike
10-06-06, 07:39 PM Adam West Batman- Lawful Good

Batman Batman- Lawful Neutral

makes much more sense

oh and Frank Miller Batman- True Neutral

not wholely chaotic or lawful, all badass.

what would Robin be?

Which Robin? There have been somehing like 4 or 5, and unlike Batman, they're distinct characters.
Timespike
10-06-06, 07:45 PM I would certainly agree with the first half of this.

While Batman has done some chaotic-type things, they are done with the intent of upholding order. Lawful alignments don't mean that you have to obey every law, just that you see law and order as paramount for maintaining and promoting the betterment of people.

I don't quite think I'd go with lawful good for Batman. His whole dark past and badass demenor play more to the lawful neutral side...

You can be a tremendous badass and still be a saint. Solomon Kane, King Arthur, Hellboy, Aragon, Vincent Hannah (Al Pacino's Character in Heat), and Virgil (NOT WYATT!) Earp (at least as he was portray in Tombstone), Samuel Gerrard (the US Marshall in The Fugitive), and the arabian guy whose name escapes me from the Mummy Returns were all definitely good-aligned and thoroughly badass. Picking a fight with ANY of those guys is a bad idea, and several of them (Hellboy, Virgil Earp, Solomon Kane) can probably terrify lesser men with a glance.
Blade2718
10-06-06, 09:00 PM He's probably more of a True Neutral or Neutral Good.

There's no possible way to accurately portray every aspect of Batman within the confines of the D&D game rules to-date. He is simultaneously:
1) The world's foremost detective.
2) An expert in all forms of hand-to-hand combat.
3) An inventive genius
4) A master strategist
5) A wealthy businessman.

And everything else I can't remember.

The best we can hope for is to focus on one and minimize deficiencies in others.
KarinsDad
10-07-06, 10:36 AM how is Batman insane?

he abides by the law, and seeks to thwart evil because of what happened when he was a kid.

One has to be pretty insane to do what he does.

As for alignment, he is not LG. More like N. Just because he hunts criminals does not make him a good person or a lawful person.

He breaks the law all of the time:

Speeding
Breaking and Entering
Trespassing
Assault
Battery
Illegal wiretaps and surveillance

Course, almost all PCs break the law all of the time as well (good aligned or not, lawful aligned or not), but we can add Murder and Theft to their list of crimes. Go to dungeon, kill what is there, steal it's stuff. Rinse and repeat.
Midnight_v
10-09-06, 08:54 PM I would say 1NG or 2CN 1.He doen't up hold the "law" so much as his own moral code. 2. Because were talking about a billionaire who dresses up as a giant bat and fights crime unarmed along side a teenage boy. Lives in a cave half the time all of which result from deep psychological trauma recieved as a child.
Anybody who would fight creatures like Superman or Green Lanterns without powers is pushing the limits of sanity. Brilliant and insane.
Bard-of-all-trades
10-10-06, 12:14 AM Personally, I'd say the Dark Knight would have CG for his alignment. Yes he works with the law, yes he puts away the bad guys, and yes he does what is right (most of the time), but, as has already been mentioned, he breaks the law repeatedly to do it. He would definitely be a "ends justify the means" type of character. He is mean, conniving, and ruthless in his pursuit of justice. Definitely CG.
Optimator
10-10-06, 12:50 AM One has to be pretty insane to do what he does.

As for alignment, he is not LG. More like N. Just because he hunts criminals does not make him a good person or a lawful person.

He breaks the law all of the time:

Speeding
Breaking and Entering
Trespassing
Assault
Battery
Illegal wiretaps and surveillance

Since when did being lawful imply one obeys the laws of the land?

Anyway, his strict discipline and adherence to his own codes seems pretty 'Lawful' to me. Plus, one can't really excel in hand-to-hand combat without being Lawful, eh?
The reason for his vigilantism (is that a word?) seem to be a mix between 'for the greater good' Goodness and 'to keep society from falling into disarray' Neutrality. I haven't read a ton of Batman comics, so his motives are most likely more concrete and/or more complex than I understand. However, his strict no-killing just screams Good to me.

Non of that really matters though, since, once again, the DnD alignment system fails to portray virtually all real people and famous characters wholly.
--OR--
Batman is human. Therefore, he is Neutral.
WalkenDude
10-10-06, 01:44 AM Batman is not LG. He is way, way too batshit insane to be LG. He's like... CN.

And he should use the Vigilante PrC from CAdv.

I agree on both counts.
HelloRaptor
10-10-06, 03:21 AM I'm in the Lawful Neutral camp.

Oh, and whoever said Tommy Lee Jones' character in The Fugitive was a saint, or inferred that he's Lawful Good? Hell no.

Dr. Richard Kimble: I didn't kill my wife.
Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: I don't care.

Gerard, much like Batman, doesn't do it for 'Good', he does it for Law. In Gerard's case, it was the law of the land. in Batman's case, it's HIS law. Which, while modeled after the law of the land, is quite different in many respects. He still puts criminals in jail, doesn't use guns, even tips off the police. Batman has, more often than not, been portrayed as a very inflexible character no matter how adaptable he is. Batman does not compromise. He very much IS the law of the land, in his mind, in most ways. When was the last time you saw him act on a whim of any sort?

Batman is Lawful the way Monks are Lawful, not the way Paladins are Lawful. His laws first, other laws second, but always law.
WalkenDude
10-10-06, 10:16 PM I see where this argument is coming from, some people are talking about Batman, some people are proclaiming the bata$$ness of the Dark Knight.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TeenageHeat 10-06-06, 02:32 PM	i personally think Ranger/Paladin( the caped crusader, the masked detective, it all fits) -he's LG because he works with the police -he's got great charisma (and nice saves, due to Divine Grace) - Divine Health (badasses don't get sick) -Track (he is a detective you know.) - FE: not too sure, Criminals? loll - Animal Companion: Robin (hahahaha) - Special Mount- The Batmobile (in a sense) - he definitely smites evil - archery style over TWF ( he sure does throw Batarangs) - Devoted Tracker because we all know the Batmobile is pimped out anyone wanna help me with this goofy sounding build?
RobbyPants 10-06-06, 02:34 PM	Well, Batman is a bit beyond the FRP type D&D system... I did create him in a homebrew version of the modern d20 I ran once... First of all, he needs about nat 18s in all his rolls (the guy is supposed to be incredible, if you read the comics). Other than that, it was a sort of fighter, monk, rogue combo, with maybe a splash of ranger. I can't say that I have a specific D&D build for you though...
HamHam 10-06-06, 02:43 PM	Batman is not LG. He is way, way too batshit insane to be LG. He's like... CN. And he should use the Vigilante PrC from CAdv.
rilem 10-06-06, 02:47 PM	Which Batman? Bob Kane's? Adam West's? Frank Miller's? You could try a google search for this "batman" and "optimization" restricted to this board. The topic comes up every 6 months. Usual suspects include: Monk, Artificer, Master Inquisitive/Watch Detective, Urban Ranger, Vigilante ...
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 10-06-06, 02:53 PM	Which Batman? Bob Kane's? Adam West's? Frank Miller's? You could try a google search for this "batman" and "optimization" restricted to this board. The topic comes up every 6 months. Usual suspects include: Monk, Artificer, Master Inquisitive/Watch Detective, Urban Ranger, Vigilante ...I have yet to see an Adam West Batman request in here. (Ack - bad rhyming!) I should start a thread on that though. Simulating Mr. West's campiness, innocent do-gooderiness, and flair will not be easy.
TeenageHeat 10-06-06, 03:03 PM	how is Batman insane? he abides by the law, and seeks to thwart evil because of what happened when he was a kid. if he were CN, he wouldn't be saving people, he'd be blowing stuff up irresponsibly and not caring about anyone but himself.
Tempest Stormwind 10-06-06, 03:07 PM	http://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aboards1.wizards.com+%22c haracter+optimization%22+batman&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
rilem 10-06-06, 03:09 PM	Again, depends. Sometimes he's a goody-goody. Sometimes he's a sadist. Sometimes he cares about the law. Sometimes he beats up cops and spies on his friends. Sounds a bit chaotic to me. Frank Miller's version is clearly a wacko who thinks dead people are talking to him. Edit: Thanks Tleilaxu Ghola for the link.
HamHam 10-06-06, 03:14 PM	how is Batman insane? he abides by the law, and seeks to thwart evil because of what happened when he was a kid. if he were CN, he wouldn't be saving people, he'd be blowing stuff up irresponsibly and not caring about anyone but himself. Lets see if I can remember some of the crazy stuff he's done: 1) Quite the League because some of them screwed with his memories, and proceeded to make a satellite that monitored all super-hero activity and was eventually used by some bad guy to do some crazy bad thing (and then Wonder Woman killed him). 2) Anything with Frank Miller writing ("I'm the ******* Batman!" (http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox7/default.php)) 3) In Kingdom Come he was running around teaming up with freaking Lex Luthor and teaming up with Green Arrow and people and being generally Chaotic to Superman's Lawful. 4) I'm sure people who actually read Batman can come up with some more insanse stuff he's done.
Phoenix00 10-06-06, 03:36 PM	Batman is a lawful neutral character who has embraced chaos. His is driven by his own personal code of justice, this personal code is what drives him to be batman, a vigilante, judge, and enforcer. Batman realizes the limits of the law, and the "natural" extension of the law the police, this is why he seeks to operate outside the law since the law is limited. Thus he seems to be chaotic, and at times embraces the natural chaos inside all of us, but he does this for the sake of being the angel of lawfulness. To be the bat who drives terror into the hearts of criminals. Batman is not chaotic neutral, for he does not embrace chaos, he does not embrace anarchy. He acts chaotic at times due to the natural limitness of lawfulness. He doesn't embrace freedom, being a free spirit, challenging tradition, challenging rules and regulations as an ultimate good, no he just merely uses these things as a means to an end. Batman remains invisible, operates outside the normal law, and remains free only for the fact that he must do so or he will either be beaten by the villians or stopped and controled by the police and thus useless for the city of gotham. Regardless even though he acts a certain way his motivations is still to bring things into a personal order. In other words, Batman acts chaotic for he doesn't want to be lawful stupid. Describing a complicated character such as Batman on an axis with only 9 different possibilities is why I hate the alingment system.
RobbyPants 10-06-06, 03:41 PM	Batman is a lawful neutral character who has embraced chaos. I would certainly agree with the first half of this. While Batman has done some chaotic-type things, they are done with the intent of upholding order. Lawful alignments don't mean that you have to obey every law, just that you see law and order as paramount for maintaining and promoting the betterment of people. I don't quite think I'd go with lawful good for Batman. His whole dark past and badass demenor play more to the lawful neutral side...
Phoenix00 10-06-06, 03:43 PM	I would certainly agree with the first half of this. While Batman has done some chaotic-type things, they are done with the intent of upholding order. Lawful alignments don't mean that you have to obey every law, just that you see law and order as paramount for maintaining and promoting the betterment of people. Exactly
RobbyPants 10-06-06, 03:50 PM	Exactly w00t! :w00t: I've always loved Batman, and most vigilante-type PCs/NPCs I've made are modled after him. It is a pretty tough task to make him into a character. His exceptional level of training makes him hard to shoehorn into the typical D&D classes. Even if it's done well, he'd have to be close to level 20 (if not epic) to squeeze in all of the feats he makes use of.
rilem 10-06-06, 03:53 PM	Again, that's only some interpretations, very much restricted to the past decade or so (and probably conveying more of a neutral outlook than a lawful one, btw). The 1970s (esp. TV) and 1940s Batman was very much Lawful Good. Basically, neither the D&D alignment system nor the class system can realistically encompass a character who has gone through several iterations, varying widely in style and outlook depending on who's writing.
Phoenix00 10-06-06, 04:08 PM	Okay here is how I would try to model Batman First you must realize batman rolled 18s for all his stats, he did it right infront of the DM with no cheating. The DM practally had a heart attack, but this is fricking batman for crying out loud. Mix Enforcer, Monk, and the Vigilante Prestige Class. Enforcer is a variant paladin, Lawful Neutral appeared in DR310 but is also at the Crystal Keep as a base class. Monk due to his ninja training, how he prefers unarmed attacks, his high AC, and to describe how quick he is (flury +speed bonus). Vigilante PRC just because how well it fits. Batman should be an NPC due to all his wealth from wayne's enterprises that or have an artificer cohort who is never in battle and just makes him new gadgets. Enforcer 3/Monk 6/Vigilante 10/Enforcer +1 Batman take or make a feat that grants UMD always as a class skill. Batman has lots of gadgets. Batman take Ascetic Knight feat to grant you +4 to unarmed damage. Batman has a built in monk's belt in his bat suit. +5 to unarmed damage, that or use the gauntlets from CDivine that does the same thing but requires a feat. Batman takes Superior Unarmed Strike from TOB +4 to unarmed damage Batman makes a feat that allows him to get his Wis to AC bonus while wearing his bat suit (which I would call light armor). 19 unarmed damage, Cha to Saves, Mettle through Enforcer, Smite 4 times a day, some low level paladin like spells, 16 BAB, Subdue, Suggestion 1 day. Plus alot of Batman flavor. And due to his high stats, including 18 intelligence has a decent amount of skillpoints.
Nyelmoor 10-06-06, 04:27 PM	LOL. Complete Adventure, page 85. Thats batman right there.
PhaedrusXY 10-06-06, 06:03 PM	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Boy
TeenageHeat 10-06-06, 06:54 PM	Adam West Batman- Lawful Good Batman Batman- Lawful Neutral makes much more sense oh and Frank Miller Batman- True Neutral not wholely chaotic or lawful, all badass. what would Robin be?
Timespike 10-06-06, 07:38 PM	The Christian Bale/Animated Series/Current Comic books batman is probably LG. as far as replicating that sort of charcter in D&D, I'd say a ninja/paladin/shadowbane inquisitor would probably do nicely. You've got your crusade, sneakiness, unarmored combat style...
Timespike 10-06-06, 07:39 PM	Adam West Batman- Lawful Good Batman Batman- Lawful Neutral makes much more sense oh and Frank Miller Batman- True Neutral not wholely chaotic or lawful, all badass. what would Robin be? Which Robin? There have been somehing like 4 or 5, and unlike Batman, they're distinct characters.
Timespike 10-06-06, 07:45 PM	I would certainly agree with the first half of this. While Batman has done some chaotic-type things, they are done with the intent of upholding order. Lawful alignments don't mean that you have to obey every law, just that you see law and order as paramount for maintaining and promoting the betterment of people. I don't quite think I'd go with lawful good for Batman. His whole dark past and badass demenor play more to the lawful neutral side... You can be a tremendous badass and still be a saint. Solomon Kane, King Arthur, Hellboy, Aragon, Vincent Hannah (Al Pacino's Character in Heat), and Virgil (NOT WYATT!) Earp (at least as he was portray in Tombstone), Samuel Gerrard (the US Marshall in The Fugitive), and the arabian guy whose name escapes me from the Mummy Returns were all definitely good-aligned and thoroughly badass. Picking a fight with ANY of those guys is a bad idea, and several of them (Hellboy, Virgil Earp, Solomon Kane) can probably terrify lesser men with a glance.
Blade2718 10-06-06, 09:00 PM	He's probably more of a True Neutral or Neutral Good. There's no possible way to accurately portray every aspect of Batman within the confines of the D&D game rules to-date. He is simultaneously: 1) The world's foremost detective. 2) An expert in all forms of hand-to-hand combat. 3) An inventive genius 4) A master strategist 5) A wealthy businessman. And everything else I can't remember. The best we can hope for is to focus on one and minimize deficiencies in others.
KarinsDad 10-07-06, 10:36 AM	how is Batman insane? he abides by the law, and seeks to thwart evil because of what happened when he was a kid. One has to be pretty insane to do what he does. As for alignment, he is not LG. More like N. Just because he hunts criminals does not make him a good person or a lawful person. He breaks the law all of the time: Speeding Breaking and Entering Trespassing Assault Battery Illegal wiretaps and surveillance Course, almost all PCs break the law all of the time as well (good aligned or not, lawful aligned or not), but we can add Murder and Theft to their list of crimes. Go to dungeon, kill what is there, steal it's stuff. Rinse and repeat.
Midnight_v 10-09-06, 08:54 PM	I would say 1NG or 2CN 1.He doen't up hold the "law" so much as his own moral code. 2. Because were talking about a billionaire who dresses up as a giant bat and fights crime unarmed along side a teenage boy. Lives in a cave half the time all of which result from deep psychological trauma recieved as a child. Anybody who would fight creatures like Superman or Green Lanterns without powers is pushing the limits of sanity. Brilliant and insane.
Bard-of-all-trades 10-10-06, 12:14 AM	Personally, I'd say the Dark Knight would have CG for his alignment. Yes he works with the law, yes he puts away the bad guys, and yes he does what is right (most of the time), but, as has already been mentioned, he breaks the law repeatedly to do it. He would definitely be a "ends justify the means" type of character. He is mean, conniving, and ruthless in his pursuit of justice. Definitely CG.
Optimator 10-10-06, 12:50 AM	One has to be pretty insane to do what he does. As for alignment, he is not LG. More like N. Just because he hunts criminals does not make him a good person or a lawful person. He breaks the law all of the time: Speeding Breaking and Entering Trespassing Assault Battery Illegal wiretaps and surveillance Since when did being lawful imply one obeys the laws of the land? Anyway, his strict discipline and adherence to his own codes seems pretty 'Lawful' to me. Plus, one can't really excel in hand-to-hand combat without being Lawful, eh? The reason for his vigilantism (is that a word?) seem to be a mix between 'for the greater good' Goodness and 'to keep society from falling into disarray' Neutrality. I haven't read a ton of Batman comics, so his motives are most likely more concrete and/or more complex than I understand. However, his strict no-killing just screams Good to me. Non of that really matters though, since, once again, the DnD alignment system fails to portray virtually all real people and famous characters wholly. --OR-- Batman is human. Therefore, he is Neutral.
WalkenDude 10-10-06, 01:44 AM	Batman is not LG. He is way, way too batshit insane to be LG. He's like... CN. And he should use the Vigilante PrC from CAdv. I agree on both counts.
HelloRaptor 10-10-06, 03:21 AM	I'm in the Lawful Neutral camp. Oh, and whoever said Tommy Lee Jones' character in The Fugitive was a saint, or inferred that he's Lawful Good? Hell no. Dr. Richard Kimble: I didn't kill my wife. Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: I don't care. Gerard, much like Batman, doesn't do it for 'Good', he does it for Law. In Gerard's case, it was the law of the land. in Batman's case, it's HIS law. Which, while modeled after the law of the land, is quite different in many respects. He still puts criminals in jail, doesn't use guns, even tips off the police. Batman has, more often than not, been portrayed as a very inflexible character no matter how adaptable he is. Batman does not compromise. He very much IS the law of the land, in his mind, in most ways. When was the last time you saw him act on a whim of any sort? Batman is Lawful the way Monks are Lawful, not the way Paladins are Lawful. His laws first, other laws second, but always law.
WalkenDude 10-10-06, 10:16 PM	I see where this argument is coming from, some people are talking about Batman, some people are proclaiming the bata$$ness of the Dark Knight.