Batman build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Batman build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
shuman
08-13-06, 11:23 PM I have been searching to see if anyone has done a DnD build of a Batman type character, especially with the 3.5 stuff. How about the Vigilante PrC? Could someone post a link? Thanks.
PhaedrusXY
08-13-06, 11:24 PM Restricted Google search for Batman + Optimization... 870 hits.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-06%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=site%3Aboards1.wizards.com+batman+opti mization&btnG=Search

Yes, it's been done before...
Slyver
08-14-06, 02:12 AM Restricted Google search for Batman + Optimization... 870 hits.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-06%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=site%3Aboards1.wizards.com+batman+opti mization&btnG=Search

Yes, it's been done before...
Hmm, I opened up the first 20 of those links and produced not one useful build. While I'm sure there is probably something useful in those 870 hits (I got 923) it might have been better if you had checked out some of those hits instead of the usual, "go try google" that seems a too prevalent response.

For the OP. I have some samurai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=598968) builds that are semi-batman-ish sorta. At least fighting style and skill wise. Off the top of my head I can't really come up with a way to make batman. Batman is half samurai (not the class), half rogue/ninja (not the class) and half techno-fighter (there is no class). That last doesn't fit too well in DnD.

If you replace the techno with magic it could probably be done better. The Vigilante from CAdv is not terrible, although some sort of psionicist would probably work better, either a gestalt with ardent or psywar, or some monk into fist of zuoken.

Just some ideas, of which I don't have many for Batman, although I would like to see a good build. (I'm sure I could make one gestalt.)

Slyver
PhoenixInferno
08-14-06, 02:23 AM To fully describe Batman's awesomeness would require Gestalt, if you wanted to be a 20th level character. He would have Artificer, Monk and Fighter levels and have the Leadership feat (although his score won't be super high).

This HAS been done numerous times in the past, but no one has yet archived the work. Perhaps this will produce the "definitive" Batman d20.

I'll take a stab at it though:
Human
Human Paragon 3/Monk 9/Fighter 8\\Artificer 20

Side A
Human Paragon 1 - Adaptive Learning (---), Dodge, Able Learner
Human Paragon 2 - Mobility
Human Paragon 3 - Ability Boost (INT), Combat Expertise
Monk 1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, Decisive Strike, Improved Grapple
Monk 2 - Evasion, Combat Reflexes
Monk 3 - Blind-Fight
Monk 4
Monk 5
Monk 6 - Improved Trip, Elusive Target
Monk 7
Monk 8
Monk 9 - Combat Focus
Fighter 1 - Combat Cloak Expert
Fighter 2 - Combat Defense
Fighter 3 - Combat Awareness
Fighter 4 -
More Fighter bonus feats.
-------
Artificer 20

You'll have to jack up his INT to get the kind of skills you need, and make sure the Human Paragon skill list is tailored to provide the right skills, but I think this is the right direction. This Batman is definitely influenced by the ones that Bruce Timm drew where he did a whole lot of fighting.
Surreal
08-14-06, 02:31 AM We also need to determine which Batman you'd like to create, as the different eras and authors (or directors) all have different interpretations.
PhaedrusXY
08-14-06, 02:41 AM Hmm, I opened up the first 20 of those links and produced not one useful build. While I'm sure there is probably something useful in those 870 hits (I got 923) it might have been better if you had checked out some of those hits instead of the usual, "go try google" that seems a too prevalent response.I guess I could have been more polite... What I meant was:

I have seen several threads on this exact topic, but unfortunately I didn't save any links to any of them, nor do I remember how to find such links. You might try google. If that doesn't work, hopefully someone more helpful will come along. :D

However, I tried adding the word "Build" to my original google search, and it seems much more useful. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=593598) is a link to one of those old threads I found using that. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448070) is another.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-06,GGLD:en&q=site%3Aboards1%2Ewizards%2Ecom+batman+ build+optimization

Oh, and I think he'd be some kind of Rogue/Monk with alot of skills. Maybe take Caremdine Monk/Kung Fu Genius? I don't know how you'd do his gadgets in D&D, though. I've seen some suggest Artificer levels in older threads (and this one :P ).
Stickboy2323
08-14-06, 03:53 AM I think that Batman in D&D is almost impossible. I'm not familiar at all with the differences in the rules/system but there must be something in D20 Modern that would help such a build. While Batman does not use firearms a whole lot I'll bet you a million bucks he sure could if he wanted/needed to. D&D is pure fantasy. Batman is pure technology. The two do not crossover very well. Batman would deffinately be epic gestalt IMO. I have no idea how you would build him and said character would be a pain in the butt to roleplay but ultimately would probably be a whole mess of fun.

More importently what is his alignment? He's not evil, but is he good? I've read many a story where's he's done some down right heinous stuff in the name of the greater good. You might think he's lawful but he is a vigilante which suggests a chaotic side. I want to say NG but I think True Nuetral with good leanings is closer to the truth.
Kuroi Kenshi
08-14-06, 06:27 PM Take it for a grain of salt, but I think he'd be something like...

Rogue1/Monk2/Fighter2/Thief Acrobat5/Justicar10//Artificer20

or

Monk11/Psionic Fist9//Artificer20 (I'd put in rogue but then that'd incur multiclass XP penalties)
Vestigial_Thumb
08-14-06, 06:46 PM People, the Hyperlink function is your best friend when posting links.
jameswilliamogle
08-14-06, 06:56 PM I think there'd be some Bloodhound in there too.
Slyver
08-15-06, 03:33 AM As has been said, Batman is difficult to quantify. So many variations have been put forth over the years from numerous writers.

I am going to assume a few things with this. Mostly, I am basing this build on the movie "Batman Begins". That for me, above all other previous cinematic portrayals captures what I always viewed as the comic book character. A societal rebel, an outcast, a vigilante. Someone who is wealthy beyond measure; who gets whatever he wants if it costs money. Not someone who has the time to engineer and make all his "wonderful toys" (artificer), but someone who has been trained by the best, in all the areas that our rebelious side finds so enticing.

Both quintessential badass, and inimitable detective, with a penchant for social elitism (with a subconscious justification that it is the opposite), and an individual belief that while others need justice, he himself is above the law. A "good" heart, that believes himself to be, in DnD terms, somewhere around lawful goodish~neutral, but turns out to be somewhere closer to chaotic neutral.

This is a gestalt build. I am not focusing on being amazing, say 25 attacks on an AoO, or 50 attacks/rnd. I tried to make this a non-broken build, and keep as much cheese as possible out of it; to give him substantial skill in all the areas that make up Batman as I see him. Does he kick ass? Of course he does. But he ain't the king of smack. He's just... Batman.

Stats

Str 16
Dex 18 (+2 level)
Con 16
Int 18 (+3 level)
Wis 14
Cha 16

1 Feat Rogue Monk Able Learner, Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Kung Fu Genius, Combat Focus
2 Fighter Monk Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus Unarmed Stike
3 Fighter Monk Investigate, Weapon Focus Katana
4 Master Inquisitive Monk
5 Master Inquisitive Monk Improved Initiative
6 Master Inquisitive Monk Improved Trip, Dodge
7 Human Paragon Shou Diciple
8 Human Paragon Shou Diciple Leadership, Mobility
9 Human Paragon Shou Diciple Elusive Target, +2 int
10 OA Samurai Shou Diciple Spring attack, Ancestral Daisho
11 Feat Rogue Shou Diciple Combat Defense
12 Fighter Master Inquisitive Urban Tracking, Defensive throw
13 Fighter Master Inquisitive Quick Draw
14 Swashbuckler Iajistu Master Weapon Finesse
15 Iajistu Master Ninja Fly by attack
16 OA Samurai Ninja Blind Fighting
17 Fighter Ninja
18 Fighter Ninja Combat Awareness, Bounding Assault
19 Fighter Ninja
20 Fighter Ninja Rapid Blitz

BAB 19
Fort 22
Reflex 21 (Plus evasion)
Will 15 (Plus 4, combat focus)

As mentioned he doesn't get his techno from self-artificer. I just don't feel artificer fits Batman as I see him. He is too rich and too busy "saving the world" to be making all this crap himself. He has maybe an artificer cohort that builds it for him, or maybe he just buys it all from some discrete middleman. (He has leadership and contacts, you pick.)

I wanted to add more. Feats I wanted were, wingover, WS unarmed strike, weapon mastery (bludgeoning), as well as WS Katana, Weapon mastery (slashing), Improved natural attack, but I just couldn't fit them in. I focused more on the moves that Batman, as I see him, would make, rather than massive damage.

He has very Batman-ish feat chains, such as 3 attacks on a spring attack
The combat reflexes, combat defense, elusive target, defensive throw chain (whenever he is surrounded, he is the battlefield king (BWAANG!))
He is good with any weapon available, or none (shou diciple, 11 levels of flurry, 2d6 unarmed strike)
Flight combat abilities (flyby attack)
Nice AC (dex + 2x int to AC, +4 dodge bonus applicable against all enemies, +2 monk + ninja bonuses + magic items (should be in the 70s I think))
Nice initiative bonus (improved initiative + cha to initiative)
The ninja ability to turn invis 3+wis mod times/day for one full round (non-magical but apparently supernatural, very batman imo)
Some sudden strike ability
And of course, master investigator. He can find anyone he is looking for and interrogate them like no ones business. Break into a building or disarm an enemies trap with the best of them, in his pursiut of "justice"

I set up the level progression to maximize skill points mostly. Some things could be moved around to get certain feats at certain levels if desired withouch changing the maximized skill points. On average, he has 6 + int skill points/level (with 6-7 points from int + 1 from human/level also) with pretty much every skill as a class skill effectively.

Batman is brilliant, but a vigilante. Hugely talented, highly skilled, but still, ultimately, just human (with lots of money). (No super-human strength or massive damage on a hit, etc.)

Items of note. (Batman should not be limited by money as much as a standard character, although there is no feat that I know of that will take care of that. (He should be limited by lack of access to epic items however.))

Wings of flying (Bat)
Belt of magnificence (why not? He can afford it.)
Boots of speed (he can't be the only one without haste)
Nice little Ancestral Daisho Katana (I didn't really want this, but I needed the feat + skill points, and it wasn't completely inappropriate.)
Amulet of Natural attacks (Batman is primarily a hand to hand fighter.)
Tome of Int and Dex at least, maybe str and con as well.
Other items for AC (Deflection and NA)
Any other item that you can think of that would fit in his utility belt (poison items maybe? He has poison use.)
Batmobile? (I have no idea where to begin with this one.)

Slyver
jstorrie
08-15-06, 03:58 AM Batman is a good fighter, but the main focuses of the Bat character are generally his detective aspect and his intimidating aspect. As such, I'd say he's along the lines of:

An Eberron 'bat' man:
Human
1 Urban Ranger Investigate, Urban Tracking, Combat Expertise
2 Urban Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Urban Ranger Endurance
4 Monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
5 Monk Combat Reflexes
6 Master Inquisitive Dodge
7 Master Inquisitive Track
8 Master Inquisitive
9 Master Inquisitive Improved Trip, Improved Initiative
10 Master Inquisitive
11 Dark Lantern
12 Dark Lantern Defensive Throw
13 Dark Lantern
14 Dark Lantern
15 Dark Lantern Mobility
16 Dark Lantern
17 Dark Lantern
18 Dark Lantern Elusive Target
19 Dark Lantern
20 Dark Lantern
khaalis
08-15-06, 07:53 AM Has anyone thought of the possibility of using Tome of Battle classes for batman? The cinemtaic martial arts theme of the book seems to be the perfect match - especially in a Gestalt build. I haven't read enough of the book to have the system commited to attempting the build myself yet though.
Tweedledope
08-15-06, 08:41 PM So...sorry for the question but, where can I find this Dark Lantern and what is the overall "feel" of the class (abilities, etc.).

thanks

-=TD=-
MaplessManiac620
08-15-06, 08:56 PM So...sorry for the question but, where can I find this Dark Lantern and what is the overall "feel" of the class (abilities, etc.).

thanks

-=TD=-

Five Nations, Eberron.

It's a nice urban-agent/spy PrC with Sneak Attack, Nondetection, and Hide in Plain Sight with seemingly no requirements. Very "poof" like Bats does on occasion.

I've always liked it.
PhoenixInferno
08-15-06, 09:07 PM So...sorry for the question but, where can I find this Dark Lantern and what is the overall "feel" of the class (abilities, etc.).

thanks

-=TD=-Its an Eberron PrC. I think its in Five Nations, but I could be wrong.

Batman is a good fighter, but the main focuses of the Bat character are generally his detective aspect and his intimidating aspect. As such, I'd say he's along the lines of:Well, I know Batman is known as "The Detective" by Raj al'Ghul, but that aspect of him was not portrayed often in cartoons that I modeled him after. If I were to do a printed comic book version of Batman, I would definitely go for a skill-based character. As was mentioned, one of the pitfalls of converting a character from outside media is that different people will have different takes on it. Like I said, I was influenced by the recent string of cartoons drawn by Bruce Timm, where he does only a little detective type work and spends at least half his screen time kicking someone's butt.
Surreal
08-15-06, 09:33 PM I rather like Frank Miller's treatment of Batman, but that's probably because I really like Year One and Dark Knight Returns. For the detective feel, Jeph Loeb's Hush and The Long Halloween capture it rather nicely.
Blade2718
08-15-06, 10:20 PM I rather like Frank Miller's treatment of Batman, but that's probably because I really like Year One and Dark Knight Returns. For the detective feel, Jeph Loeb's Hush and The Long Halloween capture it rather nicely.I think that a lot of his sleuthing ability has been ignored through the use of Oracle, but ever since the Hush Returns series and War Crimes, there has been a lot more legwork involved.

To date, my favorite depictions of Batman have been the ones in No Man's Land and War Games, where he is both strategist, spy, and commando.

To remain on-topic, I think Fighter/Monk/Shou Disciple/Thief Acrobat/Nightsong Enforcer gives a pretty good mix of skills and fighting ability. I don't recall offhand if NSE requires Sneak Attack, though.
jstorrie
08-15-06, 11:03 PM I think for the most part Batman's superior fighting prowess comes from his training and experience - analagous to him simply being higher level than most people he ends up duking it out with.
Shadow_Hanzo
08-16-06, 12:06 AM Im not sure if this is a dumb question or not but what is a feat rogue and where is it found and why are you using it im just wondering ive never heard of it
Slyver
08-16-06, 01:18 AM Feat rogue is a variant rogue. It loses sneak attack progression and gains fighter bonus feat progression. It can be found in both UA and, I believe, in the 3.5 SRD.

Slyver

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shuman 08-13-06, 11:23 PM	I have been searching to see if anyone has done a DnD build of a Batman type character, especially with the 3.5 stuff. How about the Vigilante PrC? Could someone post a link? Thanks.
PhaedrusXY 08-13-06, 11:24 PM	Restricted Google search for Batman + Optimization... 870 hits. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-06%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=site%3Aboards1.wizards.com+batman+opti mization&btnG=Search Yes, it's been done before...
Slyver 08-14-06, 02:12 AM	Restricted Google search for Batman + Optimization... 870 hits. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-06%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=site%3Aboards1.wizards.com+batman+opti mization&btnG=Search Yes, it's been done before... Hmm, I opened up the first 20 of those links and produced not one useful build. While I'm sure there is probably something useful in those 870 hits (I got 923) it might have been better if you had checked out some of those hits instead of the usual, "go try google" that seems a too prevalent response. For the OP. I have some samurai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=598968) builds that are semi-batman-ish sorta. At least fighting style and skill wise. Off the top of my head I can't really come up with a way to make batman. Batman is half samurai (not the class), half rogue/ninja (not the class) and half techno-fighter (there is no class). That last doesn't fit too well in DnD. If you replace the techno with magic it could probably be done better. The Vigilante from CAdv is not terrible, although some sort of psionicist would probably work better, either a gestalt with ardent or psywar, or some monk into fist of zuoken. Just some ideas, of which I don't have many for Batman, although I would like to see a good build. (I'm sure I could make one gestalt.) Slyver
PhoenixInferno 08-14-06, 02:23 AM	To fully describe Batman's awesomeness would require Gestalt, if you wanted to be a 20th level character. He would have Artificer, Monk and Fighter levels and have the Leadership feat (although his score won't be super high). This HAS been done numerous times in the past, but no one has yet archived the work. Perhaps this will produce the "definitive" Batman d20. I'll take a stab at it though: Human Human Paragon 3/Monk 9/Fighter 8\\Artificer 20 Side A Human Paragon 1 - Adaptive Learning (---), Dodge, Able Learner Human Paragon 2 - Mobility Human Paragon 3 - Ability Boost (INT), Combat Expertise Monk 1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, Decisive Strike, Improved Grapple Monk 2 - Evasion, Combat Reflexes Monk 3 - Blind-Fight Monk 4 Monk 5 Monk 6 - Improved Trip, Elusive Target Monk 7 Monk 8 Monk 9 - Combat Focus Fighter 1 - Combat Cloak Expert Fighter 2 - Combat Defense Fighter 3 - Combat Awareness Fighter 4 - More Fighter bonus feats. ------- Artificer 20 You'll have to jack up his INT to get the kind of skills you need, and make sure the Human Paragon skill list is tailored to provide the right skills, but I think this is the right direction. This Batman is definitely influenced by the ones that Bruce Timm drew where he did a whole lot of fighting.
Surreal 08-14-06, 02:31 AM	We also need to determine which Batman you'd like to create, as the different eras and authors (or directors) all have different interpretations.
PhaedrusXY 08-14-06, 02:41 AM	Hmm, I opened up the first 20 of those links and produced not one useful build. While I'm sure there is probably something useful in those 870 hits (I got 923) it might have been better if you had checked out some of those hits instead of the usual, "go try google" that seems a too prevalent response.I guess I could have been more polite... What I meant was: I have seen several threads on this exact topic, but unfortunately I didn't save any links to any of them, nor do I remember how to find such links. You might try google. If that doesn't work, hopefully someone more helpful will come along. :D However, I tried adding the word "Build" to my original google search, and it seems much more useful. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=593598) is a link to one of those old threads I found using that. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448070) is another. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-06,GGLD:en&q=site%3Aboards1%2Ewizards%2Ecom+batman+ build+optimization Oh, and I think he'd be some kind of Rogue/Monk with alot of skills. Maybe take Caremdine Monk/Kung Fu Genius? I don't know how you'd do his gadgets in D&D, though. I've seen some suggest Artificer levels in older threads (and this one :P ).
Stickboy2323 08-14-06, 03:53 AM	I think that Batman in D&D is almost impossible. I'm not familiar at all with the differences in the rules/system but there must be something in D20 Modern that would help such a build. While Batman does not use firearms a whole lot I'll bet you a million bucks he sure could if he wanted/needed to. D&D is pure fantasy. Batman is pure technology. The two do not crossover very well. Batman would deffinately be epic gestalt IMO. I have no idea how you would build him and said character would be a pain in the butt to roleplay but ultimately would probably be a whole mess of fun. More importently what is his alignment? He's not evil, but is he good? I've read many a story where's he's done some down right heinous stuff in the name of the greater good. You might think he's lawful but he is a vigilante which suggests a chaotic side. I want to say NG but I think True Nuetral with good leanings is closer to the truth.
Kuroi Kenshi 08-14-06, 06:27 PM	Take it for a grain of salt, but I think he'd be something like... Rogue1/Monk2/Fighter2/Thief Acrobat5/Justicar10//Artificer20 or Monk11/Psionic Fist9//Artificer20 (I'd put in rogue but then that'd incur multiclass XP penalties)
Vestigial_Thumb 08-14-06, 06:46 PM	People, the Hyperlink function is your best friend when posting links.
jameswilliamogle 08-14-06, 06:56 PM	I think there'd be some Bloodhound in there too.
Slyver 08-15-06, 03:33 AM	As has been said, Batman is difficult to quantify. So many variations have been put forth over the years from numerous writers. I am going to assume a few things with this. Mostly, I am basing this build on the movie "Batman Begins". That for me, above all other previous cinematic portrayals captures what I always viewed as the comic book character. A societal rebel, an outcast, a vigilante. Someone who is wealthy beyond measure; who gets whatever he wants if it costs money. Not someone who has the time to engineer and make all his "wonderful toys" (artificer), but someone who has been trained by the best, in all the areas that our rebelious side finds so enticing. Both quintessential badass, and inimitable detective, with a penchant for social elitism (with a subconscious justification that it is the opposite), and an individual belief that while others need justice, he himself is above the law. A "good" heart, that believes himself to be, in DnD terms, somewhere around lawful goodish~neutral, but turns out to be somewhere closer to chaotic neutral. This is a gestalt build. I am not focusing on being amazing, say 25 attacks on an AoO, or 50 attacks/rnd. I tried to make this a non-broken build, and keep as much cheese as possible out of it; to give him substantial skill in all the areas that make up Batman as I see him. Does he kick ass? Of course he does. But he ain't the king of smack. He's just... Batman. Stats Str 16 Dex 18 (+2 level) Con 16 Int 18 (+3 level) Wis 14 Cha 16 1 Feat Rogue Monk Able Learner, Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Kung Fu Genius, Combat Focus 2 Fighter Monk Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus Unarmed Stike 3 Fighter Monk Investigate, Weapon Focus Katana 4 Master Inquisitive Monk 5 Master Inquisitive Monk Improved Initiative 6 Master Inquisitive Monk Improved Trip, Dodge 7 Human Paragon Shou Diciple 8 Human Paragon Shou Diciple Leadership, Mobility 9 Human Paragon Shou Diciple Elusive Target, +2 int 10 OA Samurai Shou Diciple Spring attack, Ancestral Daisho 11 Feat Rogue Shou Diciple Combat Defense 12 Fighter Master Inquisitive Urban Tracking, Defensive throw 13 Fighter Master Inquisitive Quick Draw 14 Swashbuckler Iajistu Master Weapon Finesse 15 Iajistu Master Ninja Fly by attack 16 OA Samurai Ninja Blind Fighting 17 Fighter Ninja 18 Fighter Ninja Combat Awareness, Bounding Assault 19 Fighter Ninja 20 Fighter Ninja Rapid Blitz BAB 19 Fort 22 Reflex 21 (Plus evasion) Will 15 (Plus 4, combat focus) As mentioned he doesn't get his techno from self-artificer. I just don't feel artificer fits Batman as I see him. He is too rich and too busy "saving the world" to be making all this crap himself. He has maybe an artificer cohort that builds it for him, or maybe he just buys it all from some discrete middleman. (He has leadership and contacts, you pick.) I wanted to add more. Feats I wanted were, wingover, WS unarmed strike, weapon mastery (bludgeoning), as well as WS Katana, Weapon mastery (slashing), Improved natural attack, but I just couldn't fit them in. I focused more on the moves that Batman, as I see him, would make, rather than massive damage. He has very Batman-ish feat chains, such as 3 attacks on a spring attack The combat reflexes, combat defense, elusive target, defensive throw chain (whenever he is surrounded, he is the battlefield king (BWAANG!)) He is good with any weapon available, or none (shou diciple, 11 levels of flurry, 2d6 unarmed strike) Flight combat abilities (flyby attack) Nice AC (dex + 2x int to AC, +4 dodge bonus applicable against all enemies, +2 monk + ninja bonuses + magic items (should be in the 70s I think)) Nice initiative bonus (improved initiative + cha to initiative) The ninja ability to turn invis 3+wis mod times/day for one full round (non-magical but apparently supernatural, very batman imo) Some sudden strike ability And of course, master investigator. He can find anyone he is looking for and interrogate them like no ones business. Break into a building or disarm an enemies trap with the best of them, in his pursiut of "justice" I set up the level progression to maximize skill points mostly. Some things could be moved around to get certain feats at certain levels if desired withouch changing the maximized skill points. On average, he has 6 + int skill points/level (with 6-7 points from int + 1 from human/level also) with pretty much every skill as a class skill effectively. Batman is brilliant, but a vigilante. Hugely talented, highly skilled, but still, ultimately, just human (with lots of money). (No super-human strength or massive damage on a hit, etc.) Items of note. (Batman should not be limited by money as much as a standard character, although there is no feat that I know of that will take care of that. (He should be limited by lack of access to epic items however.)) Wings of flying (Bat) Belt of magnificence (why not? He can afford it.) Boots of speed (he can't be the only one without haste) Nice little Ancestral Daisho Katana (I didn't really want this, but I needed the feat + skill points, and it wasn't completely inappropriate.) Amulet of Natural attacks (Batman is primarily a hand to hand fighter.) Tome of Int and Dex at least, maybe str and con as well. Other items for AC (Deflection and NA) Any other item that you can think of that would fit in his utility belt (poison items maybe? He has poison use.) Batmobile? (I have no idea where to begin with this one.) Slyver
jstorrie 08-15-06, 03:58 AM	Batman is a good fighter, but the main focuses of the Bat character are generally his detective aspect and his intimidating aspect. As such, I'd say he's along the lines of: An Eberron 'bat' man: Human 1 Urban Ranger Investigate, Urban Tracking, Combat Expertise 2 Urban Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Urban Ranger Endurance 4 Monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 5 Monk Combat Reflexes 6 Master Inquisitive Dodge 7 Master Inquisitive Track 8 Master Inquisitive 9 Master Inquisitive Improved Trip, Improved Initiative 10 Master Inquisitive 11 Dark Lantern 12 Dark Lantern Defensive Throw 13 Dark Lantern 14 Dark Lantern 15 Dark Lantern Mobility 16 Dark Lantern 17 Dark Lantern 18 Dark Lantern Elusive Target 19 Dark Lantern 20 Dark Lantern
khaalis 08-15-06, 07:53 AM	Has anyone thought of the possibility of using Tome of Battle classes for batman? The cinemtaic martial arts theme of the book seems to be the perfect match - especially in a Gestalt build. I haven't read enough of the book to have the system commited to attempting the build myself yet though.
Tweedledope 08-15-06, 08:41 PM	So...sorry for the question but, where can I find this Dark Lantern and what is the overall "feel" of the class (abilities, etc.). thanks -=TD=-
MaplessManiac620 08-15-06, 08:56 PM	So...sorry for the question but, where can I find this Dark Lantern and what is the overall "feel" of the class (abilities, etc.). thanks -=TD=- Five Nations, Eberron. It's a nice urban-agent/spy PrC with Sneak Attack, Nondetection, and Hide in Plain Sight with seemingly no requirements. Very "poof" like Bats does on occasion. I've always liked it.
PhoenixInferno 08-15-06, 09:07 PM	So...sorry for the question but, where can I find this Dark Lantern and what is the overall "feel" of the class (abilities, etc.). thanks -=TD=-Its an Eberron PrC. I think its in Five Nations, but I could be wrong. Batman is a good fighter, but the main focuses of the Bat character are generally his detective aspect and his intimidating aspect. As such, I'd say he's along the lines of:Well, I know Batman is known as "The Detective" by Raj al'Ghul, but that aspect of him was not portrayed often in cartoons that I modeled him after. If I were to do a printed comic book version of Batman, I would definitely go for a skill-based character. As was mentioned, one of the pitfalls of converting a character from outside media is that different people will have different takes on it. Like I said, I was influenced by the recent string of cartoons drawn by Bruce Timm, where he does only a little detective type work and spends at least half his screen time kicking someone's butt.
Surreal 08-15-06, 09:33 PM	I rather like Frank Miller's treatment of Batman, but that's probably because I really like Year One and Dark Knight Returns. For the detective feel, Jeph Loeb's Hush and The Long Halloween capture it rather nicely.
Blade2718 08-15-06, 10:20 PM	I rather like Frank Miller's treatment of Batman, but that's probably because I really like Year One and Dark Knight Returns. For the detective feel, Jeph Loeb's Hush and The Long Halloween capture it rather nicely.I think that a lot of his sleuthing ability has been ignored through the use of Oracle, but ever since the Hush Returns series and War Crimes, there has been a lot more legwork involved. To date, my favorite depictions of Batman have been the ones in No Man's Land and War Games, where he is both strategist, spy, and commando. To remain on-topic, I think Fighter/Monk/Shou Disciple/Thief Acrobat/Nightsong Enforcer gives a pretty good mix of skills and fighting ability. I don't recall offhand if NSE requires Sneak Attack, though.
jstorrie 08-15-06, 11:03 PM	I think for the most part Batman's superior fighting prowess comes from his training and experience - analagous to him simply being higher level than most people he ends up duking it out with.
Shadow_Hanzo 08-16-06, 12:06 AM	Im not sure if this is a dumb question or not but what is a feat rogue and where is it found and why are you using it im just wondering ive never heard of it
Slyver 08-16-06, 01:18 AM	Feat rogue is a variant rogue. It loses sneak attack progression and gains fighter bonus feat progression. It can be found in both UA and, I believe, in the 3.5 SRD. Slyver