Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cambion76 01-15-07, 07:15 PM	Just a question: Is there any rule thats forbids taking stalwart sorcerer alternate class feature with a battle sorcerer? For all I can see, this would cost you only one 9th level spell known at level 20.
Mordar 01-15-07, 10:34 PM	no, there aren't any rules, in fact some places here in the board they suggest doing so
X-Codes 01-15-07, 10:43 PM	no, there aren't any rules, in fact some places here in the board they suggest doing so From what I've seen, most people on this board don't like either variant, much less both of them combined. If you want to do a Wizard/Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus/Abjurant Champion, however, then using the Stalawart Sorcerer variant (and not the Battlesorcerer variant) wouldn't be too terribly bad for the free weapon proficiency.
Cambion76 01-16-07, 09:54 AM	Thanks. We're playin one prestige class only. So I will go with Paladin/Battle Sorcerer/AbjC. Focus is on hitting things, spellcasting is secondary for me and I would very much like the extra HP.
Adrian_Crane 01-16-07, 10:30 AM	In my reading of the rules, you'd take the Battle Sorcerer's smaller spells known/spells per day list in conjunction with the Stalwart Sorcerer's "one less highest level spell known". Otherwise combining the two effectively negates the downsides of taking Battle Sorc altogether.
Xylem 01-16-07, 10:42 AM	In my reading of the rules, you'd take the Battle Sorcerer's smaller spells known/spells per day list in conjunction with the Stalwart Sorcerer's "one less highest level spell known". Otherwise combining the two effectively negates the downsides of taking Battle Sorc altogether. Consider the Sorcerer spells known chart here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#tableSorcererSpellsKn own). Since until 20th level, a Sorcerer doesn't know more than 2 spells of their highest level at any point and the language for Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer) and Stalwart Sorcerer both specify the number of spells known at a level cannot be reduced to less than one, Stalwart Sorcerer has no effect on Battle Sorcerer except at 20th level, at which point it reduces the number of 9th level spells known from 2 to 1.
Adrian_Crane 01-16-07, 10:50 AM	Consider the Sorcerer spells known chart here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#tableSorcererSpellsKn own). Since until 20th level, a Sorcerer doesn't know more than 2 spells of their highest level at any point and the language for Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer) and Stalwart Sorcerer both specify the number of spells known at a level cannot be reduced to less than one, Stalwart Sorcerer has no effect on Battle Sorcerer except at 20th level, at which point it reduces the number of 9th level spells known from 2 to 1. Ah, got it. I thought he was somehow reading the "replace" clause on Stalwart Sorceror to mean it "replaced" the Battle Sorc's limited progression completely with its own version of the Sorc progression.
Xylem 01-16-07, 10:59 AM	Ah, got it. I thought he was somehow reading the "replace" clause on Stalwart Sorceror to mean it "replaced" the Battle Sorc's limited progression completely with its own version of the Sorc progression. Really, the Stalwart Sorcerer and the Battle Sorcerer are two different versions of the same idea. Adding them together is almost certainly was not intended, as at L1->L19 all it does is give the Battle Sorcerer extra hit points and an additional martial weapon with Weapon Focus for no cost.