Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Myer Lynk 06-08-04, 09:56 AM	I know there is an alternative class in the unearthered arcana but what about 10 sor/ 10 eldritch knight?? you only lose one caster lvl and one spell what feats would you take for a combat minded sorcerer? please don't refer me back to the gish it doesn't tell me anything except a long line of patched together characters, unless there is a break down I didn't see for just feats?????? :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: thanks all
PhoenixInferno 06-08-04, 10:18 AM	The beauty of Joseph Kell's Comprehensive Gish thread is that even though at first it looks like a list of characters, if you CLICK on the character, it'll take you to a detailed description, this way you don't have to wade through every description, just the one you want to see. Sor 10/EK 10 is weak. Its only slightly different from sorcerer 20 (except for +10 to your BAB). The extensive multiclassing that goes on for a Gish sorcerer gives abilities for an otherwise ability deprived class.
spike81101 06-08-04, 10:48 AM	There are many different flavors combined in that thread. Some are necromancer type combantents, some are archers, knights, etc. IMO Sorcerer 20 is one of the lamest level 20 classes. Not necessisarily in power, but in flavor and the opportunity cost is extremely low for the PrCing sorcerer.
Votan 06-08-04, 11:17 AM	Originally posted by Myer Lynk I know there is an alternative class in the unearthered arcana but what about 10 sor/ 10 eldritch knight?? you only lose one caster lvl and one spell what feats would you take for a combat minded sorcerer? please don't refer me back to the gish it doesn't tell me anything except a long line of patched together characters, unless there is a break down I didn't see for just feats?????? thanks all The main issue with this build is that one needs to have martial weapon proficiency (proficient with all martial weapons) to enter the eldritch knight prestige class. There is not a core feat (PHB plus complete warrior and divine) that allows you to get this. You have to take one of: Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, Paladin to meet this requirement. That is 2 levels of spell casting gone. Once you go this route, there is no reason not to take a level of spellsword for some armour usage (so long as you pick fighter or Paladin as your class for martial proficiency). Something like: Fighter 1 Sorcerer 8 Spellsword 1 Eldritch Knight 10 will be an 18th level caster, have 10% spell failure reduction in armour. Hit points will be: 10 + 8d4 + 1d8 + 10d6 BAB +16 Fort Reflex Will +13 + 5 + 11 So saves are good. You will have no surplus skill points but does that really matter? For a Human, I'd consider the following as a possible feat structure but others will be alot better: 1 Improved Toughness, Improved Initative 1(FTR) Combat Reflexes 3 Weapon Focus (longsword) 6 Practiced Spellcaster 9 Arcane Strike 11(EK) Precise Shot 12 Metamagic 15 Metamagic 18 Metamagic Of course, this can be improved . . . [EDIT: Fixed error in feats]
Aramil Liadon 06-08-04, 11:29 AM	Would better use Paladin instead of Fighter, the Synergy with the Cha-orientated Sorcerer is much better And you can't take Arcane Strike at Level 6 because it needs Level 3 spells if I'm not wrong Aramil
Votan 06-08-04, 11:47 AM	Originally posted by Aramil Liadon Would better use Paladin instead of Fighter, the Synergy with the Cha-orientated Sorcerer is much better And you can't take Arcane Strike at Level 6 because it needs Level 3 spells if I'm not wrong Aramil That would be completely correct. I miscounted levels. Switch the 6 and 9 feats. Paladin is a better choice overall if Lawful Good with a Code of Conduct is a decent choice in your campaign. Lose one more level and Divine Grace will make saving throws a breeze.
Aramil Liadon 06-08-04, 11:50 AM	Yeah, you're right about the thing with being lawful good, I forgot that ;) Aramil
DanteHayes 06-08-04, 12:22 PM	Originally posted by Aramil Liadon Would better use Paladin instead of Fighter, the Synergy with the Cha-orientated Sorcerer is much better With one level of Paladin the only Charisma based ability is Smite Evil once per day for an additional +1 damage. If you want to exploit a high Charisma and Paladin levels you'll have to look at taking 2 or 4 levels of Paladin so you can at least get Divine Grace and at most open up the possibility for Divine Might. I don't see much reason to take more than five (maybe six) levels of Battle Sorcerer. Pal 2/Sor 4 will qualify for Spellsword Pal 2/Sor 5/SS 1 will qualify for EK Pal 2/Sor 5/SS 1/EK 10 is BAB +15 Casting at 15th Level. That leaves two levels left to find +1 Arcane Caster Level AND +1 BAB. Two more levels of Spellsword may do the trick there (Don't have the Complete Warrior with me). At the very least another level of Sorcerer certainly will. The second level of Spellsword isn't all that bad either. As for feats, Practised Speelcaster is a must. I would also suggest Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Arcane Strike should be considered and has already been suggested. DanteHayes
Votan 06-08-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by DanteHayes With one level of Paladin the only Charisma based ability is Smite Evil once per day for an additional +1 damage. If you want to exploit a high Charisma and Paladin levels you'll have to look at taking 2 or 4 levels of Paladin so you can at least get Divine Grace and at most open up the possibility for Divine Might. I don't see much reason to take more than five (maybe six) levels of Battle Sorcerer. Pal 2/Sor 4 will qualify for Spellsword Pal 2/Sor 5/SS 1 will qualify for EK Pal 2/Sor 5/SS 1/EK 10 is BAB +15 Casting at 15th Level. That leaves two levels left to find +1 Arcane Caster Level AND +1 BAB. Two more levels of Spellsword may do the trick there (Don't have the Complete Warrior with me). At the very least another level of Sorcerer certainly will. The second level of Spellsword isn't all that bad either. As for feats, Practised Speelcaster is a must. I would also suggest Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Arcane Strike should be considered and has already been suggested. DanteHayes It doesn't exist so far. Spellsword alternates between giving caster levels but it is +1 BAB. Actually, at this point I'd be seriously tempted by archamge. A couple of High Arcana could helkp out immensely at this point and the slight drop off as a fighter-mage isn't so bad at this late date.
Nazzareth 06-09-04, 03:48 AM	While I think the gish thread is alright but I have problem with most of the builds using so many prestige classes and taking only a few levels in them. As a DM I do not allow this at all. I would go fighter 1, sorcerer 6, spell sword 3, eldritch knight 10 this gives BAB 17 Caster Level of 17 with 15% ASF reduction. If you playing in the realms you could go sorcerer 6, eldritch knight 10, Raumathari battle mage 4 or sorcerer 6, eldritch knight 4, Raumathari battle mage 10 You need the Militia feat for these builds Myer lynk what source books are you using if you have the players guide to the realms there is a militia feat that gives you (martial weapons all of them) you could be a Human from impiltur or Altmubel these regions are close to the old raumathar empire so you could find a Raumathari Battle mage to teach some tricks.
spike81101 06-09-04, 09:06 AM	Originally posted by Nazzareth While I think the gish thread is alright but I have problem with most of the builds using so many prestige classes and taking only a few levels in them. As a DM I do not allow this at all. Don't allow it at all? Why not? I used to think this way, but have you read JK's Gish thread? Those builds aren't just min/max, they add flavor to a build. I agree that you should not be able to have a red wizard/incantrix etc, some prestige classes just don't fit together. But, in order to qualify for the prestige class that they really want, sometimes builds are required to take levels in classes they would rather not have, but are required to do so in order to meet the rereqs. Thats the beauty of 3.0, is being able to mix and match as many classes as possible in order to get the character you like. I was appaled when I first saw Drizzts stats for 3.0, he had levels of barbarian, fighter and ranger. I didn't realize where the barbarian part came from until I remembered him living in the underdark by himself for quite some time and being "the hunter". There was no way to reflect this in 2e, thus he was a 18 warrior or 16th ranger depending on when you met him. For example without metagaming a 6th level combat sorcerer decides he wants to be a spellsword. After looking at their rigorous training he realizes he needs some training with a sword and armor. He either becomes a fighter, paladin, ranger, or if he's lucky he can get training (the feat that allows all martial weapons). After gaining that one of 2 levels he realizes he's still not good enough to become a spellsword and sees that the eldritch knights can help him with both his magic and his weapons training until he is ready for the spellswords... Do you see where this is going? A lot of spellcasting PrCs have a progression that has something great at the end which makes you want to get to the end of it. Or they have an ability like red wizard that is most beneficial if you continue through it to the end. The same can be said for certain non casting PrCs like the dervish from the complete warrior. But some PrCs act only as gateways to other classes. Like spellsword for example. Maybe an eldritch knight simply wants to be able to wear his mithril chain better. So he signs on for spellsword until he is able to do so. Once he gets that -10% spellfailure, hes fullfilled his wishes in that order or PrC and will search out for the next way to improve himself. That being said, you still much watch out for munkins who only wish to min/max with no roleplaying and grab all the best PrCs out there and squish them into one character. 3.0/3.5 is supposed to be mix/match whatever class you want to get the character you want. It took me a long time to realize it, just use your best judgement. Man, sorry this was so long :D