Battlerager Scout build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battlerager Scout build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MetalGemini
10-21-04, 12:10 PM My newest character is what I like to call a Battlerage Scout. I'm guessing everyone knows about the dwarven battleragers, if not, they are basically a squad of fighter/barbarians that rage in battle and go insane. My character isn't one of the normal brawlers, but the one that leads the way and helps with flanking maneuvers.

Dwarf Rogue 3/Barbarian 2
Str: 14
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 8
(32 point buy)

My question is, what feats should I look at taking to optimize this guy? Any PrCs that will fit?
So far, I'm thinking Track and Dodge for feats. Maybe Dark Hunter for a PrC but if it will give me much more of a benefit that an extra few levels in rogue would. My focus is on melee ambush/sneak attacks.

Thanks in advance!
Minotaur
10-21-04, 12:30 PM There is a battlerager PrC, I think its in Races of Faerun.
rilem
10-21-04, 01:57 PM What books are available? Are you starting at level 5? What's your planned combat style?

It sounds like a good candidate for Deep Warden from Races of Stone -- but then, most Dwarf builds do. Then you can tank your Dex and get AC to Con instead. There's a good thread on the D.W. linked from the Optimization Library (Best Tank Prc EVAR, or something like that).

In such an event, you should toss your Dex and put your highest score into Con.

You might also want to consider Tactical Soldier from MiniHndbk, which lets you flank without really flanking. Your DM will hate that. The same ability is granted in the Oriental Adventures 3.5 update of Great Teamwork ancestor feat (Published in Dragon 318).

Rogue3/Bbn2 is fine, although you'll have to spend 2 feats for Dark Hunter and you won't qualify for another level (need BAB+5).

In contrast, Ranger3/Bbn2 (Dragon Totem Variant) sets you up perfectly for Dark Hunter (Dragon Totem gets Blind Fight for free, though not Fast Movement or U.D. Tough call) and Deep Warden beyond that.
Go Ranger3/Bbn2/DeepWarden2/DarkHunter5/TacticalSoldier1/Battlerager2

Ranger/Deepwarden/DarkHunter all get Hide/MS/Spot/Listen/Search (Bbn gets listen); give yourself a good Int and you should be able to keep those skills high throughout the build.

BAB 20
Saves: 14/7/5
First 9 levels
1 Rgr Combat Reflexes, Track*
2 Rgr TWF*
3 Bbn Power Attack, Blind Fight*, Rage
4 Bbn
5 Rgr Endurance*
6 DW Cleave
7 DW Con to AC
8 Tactical Soldier Flanker
9 DarkHunter Iron Will

Variations are also available:

Rgr3/Bbn (standard)2/DeepWarden5/KnightoftheMiddleCircle1/DarkHunter5/TacticalSoldier2/BattleRager2
Deepwarden5 gets you Slippery Mind-like effect, KotMC gets you Blind Fight and combat insight bonus.

You could do something similar starting with Paragon Dwarf 3 from Unearthed Arcana. Snow had suggested Rgr3/Ftr2/Paragon Dwarf3/DeepWarden2, which could lead nicely to Dark Hunter

Finally, you could mix in some psionic levels -- not for offense but for the power Chameleon, which stacks nicely with the Stone's Hue ability from Dark Hunter.
Norad
10-21-04, 03:46 PM Here you go:
L1: Wolf Totem Barbarian(UA) 1 - Feats: Endurance
L2: Wolf Totem Barbarian(UA) 2 - Feats: Improved Trip(bonus)
L3: Fighter 1 - Axe Focus(racial substitution level, WF: all axes), Feats: Power Attack
L4: Fighter 2 - Feats: Cleave
L5: Paladin of Freedom(UA) 1
L6: Deepwarden 1 - Feats: Track(bonus), Reckless Rage
L7: Deepwarden 2 - Stone Warden(Con bonus replaces Dex bonus to AC)
L8: Battlerager 1 - Rage +1/day, Rock gut, Gruff
L9: Battlerager 2 - Fearless, Feats: Close-Quarters Fighting(bonus), Knockdown
L10: Battlerager 3 - Rage +1/day, Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike(bonus)
L11: Battlerager 4 - Feats: Great Cleave(bonus), Reckless Offensive(bonus)
L12: Battlerager 5 - Rage +1/day, Natural armor +2, Feats: Wolf Berserker Lodge
L13: Exotic Weapons Master 1 - Uncanny blow(double Str damage when using Dwarven Waraxe w/ 2 hands)
L14: Exotic Weapons Master 2 - Flurry of strikes(-2 on all attacks, make additional attack at highest BAB when using full attack)
L15: Dwarf Paragon(UA) 1 - +30ft. Darkvision, Feats: Dwarven Armor Proficiency
L16: Dwarf Paragon(UA) 2 - Improved racial save bonuses
L17: Dwarf Paragon(UA) 3 - +2 Con
L18: Deepwarden 3 - Feats: Heavy Armor Optimization
L19: Deepwarden 4 - Uncanny Dodge
L20: Deepwarden 5 - Stubborn Mind

Notes: Paladin of Freedom level is for the Heal skill which is needed for Deepwarden. Beyond that, I think your point by has some issues, namely, the Dex, take that down to 10, Wisdom looks fine, drop Int to 10 if it isn't already, take any points you have left over, get Str/Con as high as possible. Your skill ranks and items will give you enough stealth to get the job done.

Deepwarden will provide you with all the scouting skills you will need, there is no reason to screw with taking levels of Rogue which is hampering your overall combat ability anyways. I tend to think that trying to be sneaky/stealthy with this character is very contrary to the whole Battlerager concept in the first place, but to each his own.
MetalGemini
10-21-04, 06:53 PM Thanks for the replies. Those help a lot.

What books are available? Are you starting at level 5? What's your planned combat style?

Any books are available, with the exception of psionics. We're starting ECL 5. My combat plan was to use Hide/Move Silently to flank and then sneak attack with greataxe (the combo is amusing at least: sneaky greataxe) and if the opponent seems tough enough, rage right before the sneak attack for d12+(Str+4)+Xd6 damage.

I guess I also failed to mention that I am the trapfinder/skill monkey of the group, so the Rogue levels are important. The DM also doesn't allow small level dips, i.e one level of paladin or dragonslayer.

I'll look into the Battlerager & Deepwarden to see how they fit.

I'm trying to make the character more complimentary to the Battlerager than a huge deviation. I can see the main battlerager force sending out some scouts (i.e. this char) to locate the enemy and report back to the main force. The sneak attack strategy isn't really the focus, just the most effective tactic.

Any more ideas are appreciated.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MetalGemini 10-21-04, 12:10 PM	My newest character is what I like to call a Battlerage Scout. I'm guessing everyone knows about the dwarven battleragers, if not, they are basically a squad of fighter/barbarians that rage in battle and go insane. My character isn't one of the normal brawlers, but the one that leads the way and helps with flanking maneuvers. Dwarf Rogue 3/Barbarian 2 Str: 14 Dex: 17 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 8 (32 point buy) My question is, what feats should I look at taking to optimize this guy? Any PrCs that will fit? So far, I'm thinking Track and Dodge for feats. Maybe Dark Hunter for a PrC but if it will give me much more of a benefit that an extra few levels in rogue would. My focus is on melee ambush/sneak attacks. Thanks in advance!
Minotaur 10-21-04, 12:30 PM	There is a battlerager PrC, I think its in Races of Faerun.
rilem 10-21-04, 01:57 PM	What books are available? Are you starting at level 5? What's your planned combat style? It sounds like a good candidate for Deep Warden from Races of Stone -- but then, most Dwarf builds do. Then you can tank your Dex and get AC to Con instead. There's a good thread on the D.W. linked from the Optimization Library (Best Tank Prc EVAR, or something like that). In such an event, you should toss your Dex and put your highest score into Con. You might also want to consider Tactical Soldier from MiniHndbk, which lets you flank without really flanking. Your DM will hate that. The same ability is granted in the Oriental Adventures 3.5 update of Great Teamwork ancestor feat (Published in Dragon 318). Rogue3/Bbn2 is fine, although you'll have to spend 2 feats for Dark Hunter and you won't qualify for another level (need BAB+5). In contrast, Ranger3/Bbn2 (Dragon Totem Variant) sets you up perfectly for Dark Hunter (Dragon Totem gets Blind Fight for free, though not Fast Movement or U.D. Tough call) and Deep Warden beyond that. Go Ranger3/Bbn2/DeepWarden2/DarkHunter5/TacticalSoldier1/Battlerager2 Ranger/Deepwarden/DarkHunter all get Hide/MS/Spot/Listen/Search (Bbn gets listen); give yourself a good Int and you should be able to keep those skills high throughout the build. BAB 20 Saves: 14/7/5 First 9 levels 1 Rgr Combat Reflexes, Track* 2 Rgr TWF* 3 Bbn Power Attack, Blind Fight, Rage 4 Bbn 5 Rgr Endurance 6 DW Cleave 7 DW Con to AC 8 Tactical Soldier Flanker 9 DarkHunter Iron Will Variations are also available: Rgr3/Bbn (standard)2/DeepWarden5/KnightoftheMiddleCircle1/DarkHunter5/TacticalSoldier2/BattleRager2 Deepwarden5 gets you Slippery Mind-like effect, KotMC gets you Blind Fight and combat insight bonus. You could do something similar starting with Paragon Dwarf 3 from Unearthed Arcana. Snow had suggested Rgr3/Ftr2/Paragon Dwarf3/DeepWarden2, which could lead nicely to Dark Hunter Finally, you could mix in some psionic levels -- not for offense but for the power Chameleon, which stacks nicely with the Stone's Hue ability from Dark Hunter.
Norad 10-21-04, 03:46 PM	Here you go: L1: Wolf Totem Barbarian(UA) 1 - Feats: Endurance L2: Wolf Totem Barbarian(UA) 2 - Feats: Improved Trip(bonus) L3: Fighter 1 - Axe Focus(racial substitution level, WF: all axes), Feats: Power Attack L4: Fighter 2 - Feats: Cleave L5: Paladin of Freedom(UA) 1 L6: Deepwarden 1 - Feats: Track(bonus), Reckless Rage L7: Deepwarden 2 - Stone Warden(Con bonus replaces Dex bonus to AC) L8: Battlerager 1 - Rage +1/day, Rock gut, Gruff L9: Battlerager 2 - Fearless, Feats: Close-Quarters Fighting(bonus), Knockdown L10: Battlerager 3 - Rage +1/day, Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike(bonus) L11: Battlerager 4 - Feats: Great Cleave(bonus), Reckless Offensive(bonus) L12: Battlerager 5 - Rage +1/day, Natural armor +2, Feats: Wolf Berserker Lodge L13: Exotic Weapons Master 1 - Uncanny blow(double Str damage when using Dwarven Waraxe w/ 2 hands) L14: Exotic Weapons Master 2 - Flurry of strikes(-2 on all attacks, make additional attack at highest BAB when using full attack) L15: Dwarf Paragon(UA) 1 - +30ft. Darkvision, Feats: Dwarven Armor Proficiency L16: Dwarf Paragon(UA) 2 - Improved racial save bonuses L17: Dwarf Paragon(UA) 3 - +2 Con L18: Deepwarden 3 - Feats: Heavy Armor Optimization L19: Deepwarden 4 - Uncanny Dodge L20: Deepwarden 5 - Stubborn Mind Notes: Paladin of Freedom level is for the Heal skill which is needed for Deepwarden. Beyond that, I think your point by has some issues, namely, the Dex, take that down to 10, Wisdom looks fine, drop Int to 10 if it isn't already, take any points you have left over, get Str/Con as high as possible. Your skill ranks and items will give you enough stealth to get the job done. Deepwarden will provide you with all the scouting skills you will need, there is no reason to screw with taking levels of Rogue which is hampering your overall combat ability anyways. I tend to think that trying to be sneaky/stealthy with this character is very contrary to the whole Battlerager concept in the first place, but to each his own.
MetalGemini 10-21-04, 06:53 PM	Thanks for the replies. Those help a lot. What books are available? Are you starting at level 5? What's your planned combat style? Any books are available, with the exception of psionics. We're starting ECL 5. My combat plan was to use Hide/Move Silently to flank and then sneak attack with greataxe (the combo is amusing at least: sneaky greataxe) and if the opponent seems tough enough, rage right before the sneak attack for d12+(Str+4)+Xd6 damage. I guess I also failed to mention that I am the trapfinder/skill monkey of the group, so the Rogue levels are important. The DM also doesn't allow small level dips, i.e one level of paladin or dragonslayer. I'll look into the Battlerager & Deepwarden to see how they fit. I'm trying to make the character more complimentary to the Battlerager than a huge deviation. I can see the main battlerager force sending out some scouts (i.e. this char) to locate the enemy and report back to the main force. The sneak attack strategy isn't really the focus, just the most effective tactic. Any more ideas are appreciated.