Battling two weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battling two weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Keldrin Moonflower
09-04-05, 03:33 PM I need some help fighting against two weapon fighters with one weapon. Im finding it very difficult to match their damage. While im only a first level fighter right now i was wondering how i might avoid this problem in the future. So any feats or abilities you could suggest would be awsome.
Kuroi Kenshi
09-04-05, 03:56 PM For damage output, power attack + cleave will help early on. Later on, pick up improved sunder and improved bull rush so you can get combat brute and shock trooper from complete warrior. That'll allow you to get more out of power attack. Leap attack and battle jump work nicely together if your jump skill is high enough to make use of them.
lavafoxx
09-04-05, 03:57 PM I need some help fighting against two weapon fighters with one weapon. Im finding it very difficult to match their damage. While im only a first level fighter right now i was wondering how i might avoid this problem in the future. So any feats or abilities you could suggest would be awsome.

Well to begin, what is your stats/race? it would be a bit more helpful if we knew that :D
Pull My Finger of Death
09-04-05, 04:10 PM Get some AC. You might want to go with a shield for a while. If you can get your AC into the high teens, a two-weapon fighter will have a hard time hitting you. As your BAB goes up, then you can take advantage of the power attack/2-handed weapon synergy.
Keldrin Moonflower
09-04-05, 08:18 PM I was looking for a specific avantage.the power attack chain works for two weapon fighters also. but anyway im a drow fighter str18 dex16 con 16 int14 wis16 cha14
Kheldar
09-04-05, 08:55 PM I've heard a lot about battle jump. . . what exactly is it and where can I find it?

Thanks :)

- Kheldar
X-Codes
09-04-05, 09:13 PM Go with a 1h weapon and shield early. The problem with two-weapon fighting is their typically abysmal attack bonuses at early levels. Once you can afford to get a +1 animated shield (probably right around level 10), change up to a 2-hander with a good critical. My favorite is the Falchion, but other possibilities are Scythe, Court Sword, and Greathammer.

As for feats, get Improved Disarm. Chances are, your opponent is going to be using a light weapon in his off hand... well, he *was* using a light weapon in his off hand. The his modifier on the opposed attack roll will be between -6 and +2, which is easily defeated with your +8 for using a large weapon and having the feat. It's a huge advantage that doesn't require the extra +2 from a heavy flail or spiked chain. Anyway, just like that and his offensive abilities are cut in half.

Another way to go is Power Attack and Improved Sunder. It's a much more even matchup as far as the attack roll goes, but, if you win, your opponent's weapon will most likely be gone for good.

Next is Damage Reduction. The Axeblock, Spearblock, and Hammerblock abilities are all +2 bonuses to armor, and reduce the damage you take against one type of weapon. PrC's like Survivor in Savage Species grant DR, however the better ones have decently strict pre-requisites. Finally, Spells like Stoneskin and Riteous Might grant amounts of DR, however they are all fairly high-level and you would probably have to end up spending a small fortune on items to make use of them.

Finally, theres Karmic Strike and Sidestep. If you intentionally skimp out on your AC, your opponent will likely land the first attack on you, allowing you to make a reprisal and then stepping away. Or you could just get your AC as high as possible and guarantee that you opponent will never get more than one hit on you.

If you take up more than one of these suggestions, then your effectiveness will likewise increace. Of course, if all else fails, you can just dig around for that Uberest Charger build somewhere deep within the forum.
Kuroi Kenshi
09-04-05, 09:16 PM I was looking for a specific avantage.the power attack chain works for two weapon fighters also.
True, but if using a twohanded weapon, you get more out of the tree(s), especially when power attacking on cleave attacks. Plus charging using the two tactical feats I mentioned is something that a two-handed weapon user will get way, WAY more returns on than a TWFer would.

However, as a fighter, I'd say go with spiked chain, and maximize your attacks by getting as many AoO's per round as possible via trip, karmic strike, and combat reflexes. Plus you'll shut down any TWFers you have to fight.

Battle jump is in Unapproachable East if memory serves. If not it's in one of the other forgotten realms books. It basically doubles your charge damage for making a sufficient jump check as you charge...I think. The lancer build and the uber(er) charger builds should have the math factored into their damage output calculations.
Caelic
09-04-05, 09:26 PM Power attack isn't nearly as efficient for two weapon fighters as it is for a two-handed fighter. Without a significant source of extra damage (such as sneak attack,) a two weapon fighter will almost always be outdamaged by a two handed weapon.
Kheldar
09-04-05, 09:40 PM Thank you Kuroi Kenshi, I'll do some looking into it!

- Kheldar

Edit: Rats, not in Unapproachable East. . . Any idea which of the Forgotten Realm books it might be in. . . heh. . .

Edit Again: Wait, never mind I am blind. . . It is in Unapproachable East. However, how effective of a feat is Battle Jump really? It's entirely based on the terrain around you. Seems too circumstantial to be worth taking.
rilem
09-04-05, 10:31 PM BattleJump is no longer viable for PCs, I believe, though I forget the details why. Might be Taer-only.

Anyway, Power Attack + Leap Attack (Comp. Adv.) + Two-handed weapon should do nicely.
Jolly Josh
09-04-05, 10:37 PM I need some help fighting against two weapon fighters with one weapon. Im finding it very difficult to match their damage. While im only a first level fighter right now i was wondering how i might avoid this problem in the future. So any feats or abilities you could suggest would be awsome.
improved disarm or sunder... now you have one weapon and they have none :)
dirkformica
09-04-05, 10:41 PM I think at low levels, a two-handed warrior would benefit the most from Improved Disarm when fighting a two-weapon warrior. As was mentioned earlier, the bonus to disarm with a two-handed weapon and the penalty to disarm while using a light weapon will almost guarantee the two-weapon wielder loses their off-hand attack. It's pretty hard to overcome an 8 point difference early on.

Reach weapons and improved trip can also really help. Tactical fighters in general often have the advantage against the more specialized, two-weapon wielders in my experience.

(edit: just watch out for the dual-wielding Flail/Sickle warrior. ;) )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keldrin Moonflower 09-04-05, 03:33 PM	I need some help fighting against two weapon fighters with one weapon. Im finding it very difficult to match their damage. While im only a first level fighter right now i was wondering how i might avoid this problem in the future. So any feats or abilities you could suggest would be awsome.
Kuroi Kenshi 09-04-05, 03:56 PM	For damage output, power attack + cleave will help early on. Later on, pick up improved sunder and improved bull rush so you can get combat brute and shock trooper from complete warrior. That'll allow you to get more out of power attack. Leap attack and battle jump work nicely together if your jump skill is high enough to make use of them.
lavafoxx 09-04-05, 03:57 PM	I need some help fighting against two weapon fighters with one weapon. Im finding it very difficult to match their damage. While im only a first level fighter right now i was wondering how i might avoid this problem in the future. So any feats or abilities you could suggest would be awsome. Well to begin, what is your stats/race? it would be a bit more helpful if we knew that :D
Pull My Finger of Death 09-04-05, 04:10 PM	Get some AC. You might want to go with a shield for a while. If you can get your AC into the high teens, a two-weapon fighter will have a hard time hitting you. As your BAB goes up, then you can take advantage of the power attack/2-handed weapon synergy.
Keldrin Moonflower 09-04-05, 08:18 PM	I was looking for a specific avantage.the power attack chain works for two weapon fighters also. but anyway im a drow fighter str18 dex16 con 16 int14 wis16 cha14
Kheldar 09-04-05, 08:55 PM	I've heard a lot about battle jump. . . what exactly is it and where can I find it? Thanks :) - Kheldar
X-Codes 09-04-05, 09:13 PM	Go with a 1h weapon and shield early. The problem with two-weapon fighting is their typically abysmal attack bonuses at early levels. Once you can afford to get a +1 animated shield (probably right around level 10), change up to a 2-hander with a good critical. My favorite is the Falchion, but other possibilities are Scythe, Court Sword, and Greathammer. As for feats, get Improved Disarm. Chances are, your opponent is going to be using a light weapon in his off hand... well, he was using a light weapon in his off hand. The his modifier on the opposed attack roll will be between -6 and +2, which is easily defeated with your +8 for using a large weapon and having the feat. It's a huge advantage that doesn't require the extra +2 from a heavy flail or spiked chain. Anyway, just like that and his offensive abilities are cut in half. Another way to go is Power Attack and Improved Sunder. It's a much more even matchup as far as the attack roll goes, but, if you win, your opponent's weapon will most likely be gone for good. Next is Damage Reduction. The Axeblock, Spearblock, and Hammerblock abilities are all +2 bonuses to armor, and reduce the damage you take against one type of weapon. PrC's like Survivor in Savage Species grant DR, however the better ones have decently strict pre-requisites. Finally, Spells like Stoneskin and Riteous Might grant amounts of DR, however they are all fairly high-level and you would probably have to end up spending a small fortune on items to make use of them. Finally, theres Karmic Strike and Sidestep. If you intentionally skimp out on your AC, your opponent will likely land the first attack on you, allowing you to make a reprisal and then stepping away. Or you could just get your AC as high as possible and guarantee that you opponent will never get more than one hit on you. If you take up more than one of these suggestions, then your effectiveness will likewise increace. Of course, if all else fails, you can just dig around for that Uberest Charger build somewhere deep within the forum.
Kuroi Kenshi 09-04-05, 09:16 PM	I was looking for a specific avantage.the power attack chain works for two weapon fighters also. True, but if using a twohanded weapon, you get more out of the tree(s), especially when power attacking on cleave attacks. Plus charging using the two tactical feats I mentioned is something that a two-handed weapon user will get way, WAY more returns on than a TWFer would. However, as a fighter, I'd say go with spiked chain, and maximize your attacks by getting as many AoO's per round as possible via trip, karmic strike, and combat reflexes. Plus you'll shut down any TWFers you have to fight. Battle jump is in Unapproachable East if memory serves. If not it's in one of the other forgotten realms books. It basically doubles your charge damage for making a sufficient jump check as you charge...I think. The lancer build and the uber(er) charger builds should have the math factored into their damage output calculations.
Caelic 09-04-05, 09:26 PM	Power attack isn't nearly as efficient for two weapon fighters as it is for a two-handed fighter. Without a significant source of extra damage (such as sneak attack,) a two weapon fighter will almost always be outdamaged by a two handed weapon.
Kheldar 09-04-05, 09:40 PM	Thank you Kuroi Kenshi, I'll do some looking into it! - Kheldar Edit: Rats, not in Unapproachable East. . . Any idea which of the Forgotten Realm books it might be in. . . heh. . . Edit Again: Wait, never mind I am blind. . . It is in Unapproachable East. However, how effective of a feat is Battle Jump really? It's entirely based on the terrain around you. Seems too circumstantial to be worth taking.
rilem 09-04-05, 10:31 PM	BattleJump is no longer viable for PCs, I believe, though I forget the details why. Might be Taer-only. Anyway, Power Attack + Leap Attack (Comp. Adv.) + Two-handed weapon should do nicely.
Jolly Josh 09-04-05, 10:37 PM	I need some help fighting against two weapon fighters with one weapon. Im finding it very difficult to match their damage. While im only a first level fighter right now i was wondering how i might avoid this problem in the future. So any feats or abilities you could suggest would be awsome. improved disarm or sunder... now you have one weapon and they have none :)
dirkformica 09-04-05, 10:41 PM	I think at low levels, a two-handed warrior would benefit the most from Improved Disarm when fighting a two-weapon warrior. As was mentioned earlier, the bonus to disarm with a two-handed weapon and the penalty to disarm while using a light weapon will almost guarantee the two-weapon wielder loses their off-hand attack. It's pretty hard to overcome an 8 point difference early on. Reach weapons and improved trip can also really help. Tactical fighters in general often have the advantage against the more specialized, two-weapon wielders in my experience. (edit: just watch out for the dual-wielding Flail/Sickle warrior. ;) )