BBEG using Tomb of Battle [Archive] - Wizards Community

BBEG using Tomb of Battle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
foxtrothacker
08-14-06, 12:52 AM I want to design a BBEG for my campaign using Tomb of battle. My goal is to introduce it into my world and show the PC's all that Tomb of Battle has to offer, so i want the guy to be the best.

I want this guy to be powerful, but not unbeatable. I was thinking high damage output, but low AC. Based off of the Punishing Stance from Iron Heart. The BBEG should knock one or two PC's unconscious, then because of his low AC, take enough damage to get close to dying and leave.

The Party Consists of:
lvl 2 Cleric
lvl 2 Knight
lvl 2 Dragon Shaman
more characters if i get more people to come to the next session.

By the time the PC's reach the BBEG, they should be level 3, so i'm aiming for a level 5+ character, and he is going to become a reoccuring villian so long as there aren't a few stray criticals causing either the death of the BBEG or a TPK.

I'd prefer for him to be a Warblade, but Swordsage or possibly Crusader could work also.

Thanks in advance.
malisteen
08-14-06, 01:11 AM I'm not sure this will work too well. Melee enemies have to close with the party, and High Offence / Low Defence enemies are very tricky. There's a high liklihood of character death due to their offensive power, and a high likelihood of villian death due to their low defence. By the time he's hurt enough to run, an arrow in the back as he flees might lay him low, Plus a damage-optimized ToB character has a good chance of offing a non-tank PC on the charge.

All together, the villian has high party risk and low campaign reusability. Worse yet, fights with this villian will be fast and end in few rounds. They may be tense, dangerous, and exciting, but, whether he dies or escapes, he won't be around long enough at any one time to really highlight the ToB mechanics.

If you do go for the light, fast offensive character, use a ninja/assassin theme, and make him a swordsage with tiger claw (for damage and cruelty) and shadow hand (for as to runs away) maneuvers. Emphasize with your descriptions of the fight his distinctive posture and deliberate motions. Maybe even have him scream (or whisper, perhaps more appropriate for an assassin type) the names of his strikes, boosts, and stances as he initiates them.

I would instead reccomend a tank build. Someone who can stand up to some punishment, an evil Crusader or Warblade who can last a couple rounds in a fight before escaping. You still may want to use the martial adept feat to grab him one of the Shadow Hand's teleport maneuvers.

Either way, have the party first fight him in an antimagic zone, preventing instant save-or-die gank, and showcasing his strange attacks as something entirely differant from normal magic.
VonRichthofen
08-14-06, 03:30 AM You want to enterre a battle? ;)
igotsmeakabob!!
08-14-06, 04:32 AM I'd recommend a Warblade. It'll allow for some impressive attacks to show off, and d12 hp is really nice for stayin' alive vs. those vicious party members. I recommend a lvl 7 or 8 Warblade, he'll have those sweet lvl 4 manuevers & stances. Remember, he's a PC class. He doesn't have the insane hit dice afforded monsters of an equivalent CR, so if you want him to recur he should leave when he's down to 25 or so HP. And, as BBEG, I recommend giving him max hit die or close to it.

Also, I recommend that unless you really want to slaughter your players, don't use a 2 handed weapon.
Whakapapa
08-14-06, 04:32 AM A cool concept with Warblades is making them a TWF nightmare or a AoO nightmare.

If I may shamelessly link to a thread I made with two warblade builds:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=685313

Human, male, warblade

32 point:
Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

1 Warblade 1 (Shield Specialization, Leap of Heavens)
2 Warblade 2
3 Warblade 3 (Weapon Focus: Longsword)
4 Warblade 4 (+1 dex)
5 Warblade 5 (Combat Reflexes)
6 Warblade 6 (Weapon Specialization: Longsword)
7 Warblade 7
8 Warblade 8 (+1 dex)
9 Warblade 9 (Improved Initiative, Active Shield Defense)
10 Warblade 10
11 Warblade 11
12 Warblade 12 (+1 dex, Robilar’s Gambit)
13 Warblade 13 (Blind fight)
14 Warblade 14
15 Warblade 15 (Greater Weapon Focus: Longsword)
16 Warblade 16 (+1 str)
17 Warblade 17 (Quick Draw)
18 Warblade 18 (Greater Weapon Specialization: Longsword)
19 Warblade 19
20 Warblade 20 (+1 str)

Maneuvers Known progression:
Level:
1 – Steel Wind (Iron), Sudden Leap (Tiger), and Stone Bones (Stone)
2 – Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam)
3 – Mountain Hammer (Stone)
4 – Change: Stone Bones (Stone) to: Claw at the Moon (Tiger)
5 – Iron Heart Surge (Iron)
6 – Change: Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam) to: Bonecrusher (Stone)
7 – Mithral Tornado (Iron)
8 – Change: Claw at the Moon (Tiger) to: Death From Above (Tiger)
9 – Pouncing Charge (Tiger)
11 – Crushing Vise (Stone)
12 – Change: Mountain Hammer (Stone) to: Elder Mountain Hammer (Stone)
13 – Finishing Move (Iron)
15 – Swooping Dragon Strike (Tiger)
16 – Change: Mithral Tornado (Iron) to: Adamantine Hurricane (Iron)
17 – Strike of Perfect Clarity (Iron)
19 - Feral Death Blow (Tiger)

Stances Known Progression:
Level:
1 – Punishing Stance
4 – Hunter’s Sense
10 – Absolute Steel Stance
17 – Wolf Pack Tactics

Skills:
Focus on jump (max out) + balance + tumble, then diplomacy, intimidate, knowledge (history), climb and concentration. A few ranks in swim won’t be too bad either.

for a BBEG, you would like to improve his stats, you can do that as you are a DM :p But in my two builds I got alot of strikes so that he is viable at all levels. The most fun build would be the AoO build (IMO), as your BBEG will, at higher levels, run into the middle of them and use a mithral tornado maneuver and atk them all, then when they start fighting back, he will hit them right back and in his own turn either use a new maneuver or go crazy with full atk + a boost. And when you want him to escape, you just use Sudden Leap, and jump + tumble out, then run for safety.

A great thing about BBEGs is, that they always pick the battleground. Set it up, so that you require balance checks every round, as your BBEG will focus on that.
Perhaps on a swinging bridge, or somewhere else :)
igotsmeakabob!!
08-14-06, 04:36 AM Whaka.. I notice that your twf build doesn't have the twf feat or any of its later forms?

Also, I recommend that unless you really want to slaughter your players, don't use a 2 handed weapon.
Whakapapa
08-14-06, 04:43 AM I think you've mistaken my shield + longsword build for my TWF build :P

20th level Warblade

32 point:
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

1 Warblade 1 (Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Kukri)
2 Warblade 2
3 Warblade 3 (Leap of Heavens)
4 Warblade 4 (+1 dex)
5 Warblade 5 (Improved Initiative)
6 Warblade 6 (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)
7 Warblade 7
8 Warblade 8
9 Warblade 9 (Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical: Kukri)
10 Warblade 10
11 Warblade 11
12 Warblade 12 (+1 dex, Weapon Specialization: Kukri)
13 Warblade 13 (Quick Draw)
14 Warblade 14
15 Warblade 15 (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
16 Warblade 16 (+1 str)
17 Warblade 17 (Run (or some other bonus feat))
18 Warblade 18 (Two-Weapon Rend)
19 Warblade 19
20 Warblade 20 (+1 str)

Well, here comes the maneuver progression:
1 - Steel Wind (Iron), Sudden Leap (Tiger), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam)
2 - Wolf Fang Strike (Tiger)
3 - Action Before Thought (Diam)
5 - Iron Heart Surge (Iron)
6 - Change: Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam) to: Mind over Body (Diam)
7 - Bounding Assault (Diam)
8 - Change: Sudden Leap (Tiger) to: Death From Above (Tiger)
9 - Pouncing Charge (Tiger)
10 - Change: Iron Heart Surge (Iron) to: Dancing Mongoose (Tiger)
11 - Moment of Alacrity (Diam)
13 - Swooping Dragon Strike (Tiger) (nothing like a good stun option!)
14 - Change: Steel Wind (Iron) to: Quicksilver Motion (Diam)
15 - Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (Tiger)
16 - Change: Dancing Mongoose (Tiger) to: Raging Mongoose (Tiger)
17 - Time Stands Still (Diam)
19 - Feral Death Blow (Tiger)

Stance Progression:
1 – Punishing Stance
4 – Blood in the Water
10 – Hearing the Air
17 – Absolute Steel Stance

This build is going to be mean later on, as you should get lots and lots of attacks, many of them should be crits, and when you are in Blood in the Water stance, you get unnamed bonus to atk and dmg. It's a pretty cool concept IMO, the more blood, fray and pain he causes, the more excited he gets, explain it with his eyes lusting for more blood, a crazier look :p

SO my TWF do have TWF feats ^^
igotsmeakabob!!
08-14-06, 04:45 AM Boooo I was proven incorrect! Yeah, a TWF or Weapon n Shield BBEG would be best, since he's least likely to slaughter your palyers mercilessly.
Whakapapa
08-14-06, 04:48 AM Boooo I was proven incorrect! Yeah, a TWF or Weapon n Shield BBEG would be best, since he's least likely to slaughter your palyers mercilessly.

ooh, so you mean my builds suck? :D
foxtrothacker
08-14-06, 11:37 AM Thanks guys.

DEFINATELY NOT going to use a two-handed weapon.

I think i'll go two weapon fighthing.

I noticed that Whakapapa used Leap of Heavens in both of his builds, what book is it from/ what does it do?

Thanks guys, keep the advice coming, I like what i've seen so far.
Whakapapa
08-14-06, 01:32 PM I noticed that Whakapapa used Leap of Heavens in both of his builds, what book is it from/ what does it do?

It's from PHB2, basicly it lets you make a standing jump check without doubling the DC for it :) It's really great for Tiger Claw warblades

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
foxtrothacker 08-14-06, 12:52 AM	I want to design a BBEG for my campaign using Tomb of battle. My goal is to introduce it into my world and show the PC's all that Tomb of Battle has to offer, so i want the guy to be the best. I want this guy to be powerful, but not unbeatable. I was thinking high damage output, but low AC. Based off of the Punishing Stance from Iron Heart. The BBEG should knock one or two PC's unconscious, then because of his low AC, take enough damage to get close to dying and leave. The Party Consists of: lvl 2 Cleric lvl 2 Knight lvl 2 Dragon Shaman more characters if i get more people to come to the next session. By the time the PC's reach the BBEG, they should be level 3, so i'm aiming for a level 5+ character, and he is going to become a reoccuring villian so long as there aren't a few stray criticals causing either the death of the BBEG or a TPK. I'd prefer for him to be a Warblade, but Swordsage or possibly Crusader could work also. Thanks in advance.
malisteen 08-14-06, 01:11 AM	I'm not sure this will work too well. Melee enemies have to close with the party, and High Offence / Low Defence enemies are very tricky. There's a high liklihood of character death due to their offensive power, and a high likelihood of villian death due to their low defence. By the time he's hurt enough to run, an arrow in the back as he flees might lay him low, Plus a damage-optimized ToB character has a good chance of offing a non-tank PC on the charge. All together, the villian has high party risk and low campaign reusability. Worse yet, fights with this villian will be fast and end in few rounds. They may be tense, dangerous, and exciting, but, whether he dies or escapes, he won't be around long enough at any one time to really highlight the ToB mechanics. If you do go for the light, fast offensive character, use a ninja/assassin theme, and make him a swordsage with tiger claw (for damage and cruelty) and shadow hand (for as to runs away) maneuvers. Emphasize with your descriptions of the fight his distinctive posture and deliberate motions. Maybe even have him scream (or whisper, perhaps more appropriate for an assassin type) the names of his strikes, boosts, and stances as he initiates them. I would instead reccomend a tank build. Someone who can stand up to some punishment, an evil Crusader or Warblade who can last a couple rounds in a fight before escaping. You still may want to use the martial adept feat to grab him one of the Shadow Hand's teleport maneuvers. Either way, have the party first fight him in an antimagic zone, preventing instant save-or-die gank, and showcasing his strange attacks as something entirely differant from normal magic.
VonRichthofen 08-14-06, 03:30 AM	You want to enterre a battle? ;)
igotsmeakabob!! 08-14-06, 04:32 AM	I'd recommend a Warblade. It'll allow for some impressive attacks to show off, and d12 hp is really nice for stayin' alive vs. those vicious party members. I recommend a lvl 7 or 8 Warblade, he'll have those sweet lvl 4 manuevers & stances. Remember, he's a PC class. He doesn't have the insane hit dice afforded monsters of an equivalent CR, so if you want him to recur he should leave when he's down to 25 or so HP. And, as BBEG, I recommend giving him max hit die or close to it. Also, I recommend that unless you really want to slaughter your players, don't use a 2 handed weapon.
Whakapapa 08-14-06, 04:32 AM	A cool concept with Warblades is making them a TWF nightmare or a AoO nightmare. If I may shamelessly link to a thread I made with two warblade builds: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=685313 Human, male, warblade 32 point: Str: 14 Dex: 15 Con: 12 Int: 16 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 1 Warblade 1 (Shield Specialization, Leap of Heavens) 2 Warblade 2 3 Warblade 3 (Weapon Focus: Longsword) 4 Warblade 4 (+1 dex) 5 Warblade 5 (Combat Reflexes) 6 Warblade 6 (Weapon Specialization: Longsword) 7 Warblade 7 8 Warblade 8 (+1 dex) 9 Warblade 9 (Improved Initiative, Active Shield Defense) 10 Warblade 10 11 Warblade 11 12 Warblade 12 (+1 dex, Robilar’s Gambit) 13 Warblade 13 (Blind fight) 14 Warblade 14 15 Warblade 15 (Greater Weapon Focus: Longsword) 16 Warblade 16 (+1 str) 17 Warblade 17 (Quick Draw) 18 Warblade 18 (Greater Weapon Specialization: Longsword) 19 Warblade 19 20 Warblade 20 (+1 str) Maneuvers Known progression: Level: 1 – Steel Wind (Iron), Sudden Leap (Tiger), and Stone Bones (Stone) 2 – Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam) 3 – Mountain Hammer (Stone) 4 – Change: Stone Bones (Stone) to: Claw at the Moon (Tiger) 5 – Iron Heart Surge (Iron) 6 – Change: Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam) to: Bonecrusher (Stone) 7 – Mithral Tornado (Iron) 8 – Change: Claw at the Moon (Tiger) to: Death From Above (Tiger) 9 – Pouncing Charge (Tiger) 11 – Crushing Vise (Stone) 12 – Change: Mountain Hammer (Stone) to: Elder Mountain Hammer (Stone) 13 – Finishing Move (Iron) 15 – Swooping Dragon Strike (Tiger) 16 – Change: Mithral Tornado (Iron) to: Adamantine Hurricane (Iron) 17 – Strike of Perfect Clarity (Iron) 19 - Feral Death Blow (Tiger) Stances Known Progression: Level: 1 – Punishing Stance 4 – Hunter’s Sense 10 – Absolute Steel Stance 17 – Wolf Pack Tactics Skills: Focus on jump (max out) + balance + tumble, then diplomacy, intimidate, knowledge (history), climb and concentration. A few ranks in swim won’t be too bad either. for a BBEG, you would like to improve his stats, you can do that as you are a DM :p But in my two builds I got alot of strikes so that he is viable at all levels. The most fun build would be the AoO build (IMO), as your BBEG will, at higher levels, run into the middle of them and use a mithral tornado maneuver and atk them all, then when they start fighting back, he will hit them right back and in his own turn either use a new maneuver or go crazy with full atk + a boost. And when you want him to escape, you just use Sudden Leap, and jump + tumble out, then run for safety. A great thing about BBEGs is, that they always pick the battleground. Set it up, so that you require balance checks every round, as your BBEG will focus on that. Perhaps on a swinging bridge, or somewhere else :)
igotsmeakabob!! 08-14-06, 04:36 AM	Whaka.. I notice that your twf build doesn't have the twf feat or any of its later forms? Also, I recommend that unless you really want to slaughter your players, don't use a 2 handed weapon.
Whakapapa 08-14-06, 04:43 AM	I think you've mistaken my shield + longsword build for my TWF build :P 20th level Warblade 32 point: Str: 16 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 8 1 Warblade 1 (Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Kukri) 2 Warblade 2 3 Warblade 3 (Leap of Heavens) 4 Warblade 4 (+1 dex) 5 Warblade 5 (Improved Initiative) 6 Warblade 6 (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting) 7 Warblade 7 8 Warblade 8 9 Warblade 9 (Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical: Kukri) 10 Warblade 10 11 Warblade 11 12 Warblade 12 (+1 dex, Weapon Specialization: Kukri) 13 Warblade 13 (Quick Draw) 14 Warblade 14 15 Warblade 15 (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting) 16 Warblade 16 (+1 str) 17 Warblade 17 (Run (or some other bonus feat)) 18 Warblade 18 (Two-Weapon Rend) 19 Warblade 19 20 Warblade 20 (+1 str) Well, here comes the maneuver progression: 1 - Steel Wind (Iron), Sudden Leap (Tiger), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam) 2 - Wolf Fang Strike (Tiger) 3 - Action Before Thought (Diam) 5 - Iron Heart Surge (Iron) 6 - Change: Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diam) to: Mind over Body (Diam) 7 - Bounding Assault (Diam) 8 - Change: Sudden Leap (Tiger) to: Death From Above (Tiger) 9 - Pouncing Charge (Tiger) 10 - Change: Iron Heart Surge (Iron) to: Dancing Mongoose (Tiger) 11 - Moment of Alacrity (Diam) 13 - Swooping Dragon Strike (Tiger) (nothing like a good stun option!) 14 - Change: Steel Wind (Iron) to: Quicksilver Motion (Diam) 15 - Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (Tiger) 16 - Change: Dancing Mongoose (Tiger) to: Raging Mongoose (Tiger) 17 - Time Stands Still (Diam) 19 - Feral Death Blow (Tiger) Stance Progression: 1 – Punishing Stance 4 – Blood in the Water 10 – Hearing the Air 17 – Absolute Steel Stance This build is going to be mean later on, as you should get lots and lots of attacks, many of them should be crits, and when you are in Blood in the Water stance, you get unnamed bonus to atk and dmg. It's a pretty cool concept IMO, the more blood, fray and pain he causes, the more excited he gets, explain it with his eyes lusting for more blood, a crazier look :p SO my TWF do have TWF feats ^^
igotsmeakabob!! 08-14-06, 04:45 AM	Boooo I was proven incorrect! Yeah, a TWF or Weapon n Shield BBEG would be best, since he's least likely to slaughter your palyers mercilessly.
Whakapapa 08-14-06, 04:48 AM	Boooo I was proven incorrect! Yeah, a TWF or Weapon n Shield BBEG would be best, since he's least likely to slaughter your palyers mercilessly. ooh, so you mean my builds suck? :D
foxtrothacker 08-14-06, 11:37 AM	Thanks guys. DEFINATELY NOT going to use a two-handed weapon. I think i'll go two weapon fighthing. I noticed that Whakapapa used Leap of Heavens in both of his builds, what book is it from/ what does it do? Thanks guys, keep the advice coming, I like what i've seen so far.
Whakapapa 08-14-06, 01:32 PM	I noticed that Whakapapa used Leap of Heavens in both of his builds, what book is it from/ what does it do? It's from PHB2, basicly it lets you make a standing jump check without doubling the DC for it :) It's really great for Tiger Claw warblades