Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Basselope 01-16-06, 03:24 PM	Books allowed are core + complete series and races series. I might be able to convince the DM to allow psionics and magic of incarnum but I'm not sure. Tweaks from that directions are happily taken though. Race: Dwarf Classes: Barb 5/Deepwarden 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Bear Warrior 10/Warshaper 2 Feats: 1 - Weapon Focus Dwarven Waraxe 3 - Endurance (needed for Deepwarden) 6 - Power Attack 9 - Improved Bull Rush 12 - Shock Trooper 15 - Leap Attack 18 - Extra Rage or ??? Starting Stats: Str - 18 Dex - 13 Con - 18 + 2 = 20 (Dwarf) Int - 14 Wis - 12 Cha - 9 - 2 = 7 (Dwarf) Items: Manual for Con +5 Manual for Str +4 Belt of Giant Str +6 Amulet of Health +6 The idea I had that is somewhat pivotal is that with Deepwarden, the rage ability that normally lowers his AC would not lower it due to the con bonus and at later levels it would actually increase his AC while in bear form. I took Exotic Weapon Master so I could buy Uncanny Blow for 2x damage when using the dwarven waraxe in two hands when not raged. The warshaper was added for the immunity to crits, +4 to str and con and the increase in natural weapon size. I had thought to add all of his levels ability increases to Con. I would end up with physical stats as follows when in Dire Bear form while raging: Str - 52 Dex - 15 Con - 48 I am very curious to hear if people think I should switch the focus to Str from Con with the levels. I would also switch the manuals to +5 to str and +4 to Con. that would generate a STR of 58 and Con of 42 while raging. I did it the first way for the extra 3 to AC and 3 HP per level. I felt that a 52 str was pretty darn good anyway. How I calculated Str: 18 - Base 4 - Manual 6 - Belt 4 - Warshaper 20 - Dire Bear 52 - Total How I calculated Con: 18 - Base 2 - Dwarf 5 - Levels 5 - Manual 6 - Amulet 4 - Warshaper 8 - Dire Bear 48 Total I would also like to hear any other ideas on increasing my Str and Con scores. Thanks in advance to everyone.
Silverthumb128 01-16-06, 03:54 PM	While I'm not great with optimization, I'd be more tempted to take Extend Rage over Extra Rage. You'll already be able to Rage a good enough number of times/day, having a longer Rage would be more beneficial, as you can only Rage once per encounter. That way, you'll be in Bear-form for 3 more rounds(as if you wouldn't already have a really long Rage beforehand). :D
Basselope 01-16-06, 04:00 PM	Good point. However, with a +19 to my CON modifier, that gives me a rage of 22 rounds. Most combats I have been in don't last that long, but I have noticed that with my group I do fight a decent amount and the extra rage would be nice so as not to have to hold back waiting for a boss fight. I would totally agree with you if my Con modifier weren't so high.
Naramyth 01-16-06, 04:22 PM	I would recremend not going for dire bear with bear warrior 10, I would replace the last 5 levels with something else. The brown bear only looses a few points of str compared to the dire, which could be made up with the class abilites that you could get with those 5 levels. Maybe, Barb5/DeepWarden2/Exotic1/Bear5/Warshaper4/Ftr2/XXX1 where XXX is anything that makes your will save better:)
Basselope 01-16-06, 05:54 PM	Ok, I like that. It gets me the additional reach of the warshaper and the healing and opens me up for a couple more feats from fighter. Hmmm, what about this though...I fit in Frenzied Berzerker 5. I'm not so concerned about the Frenzy ability as the Improved Power Attack. Then I could get a 3/1 on power attacks and 4/1 on a leap. Another idea, assuming I could get the DM to allow it would be to go up to Bear Warrior 5 like you suggest with Warshaper 4 and then toss in Totemist 2 with Fighter 1. Then bind Sphinx Claws to my totem and get full attack on a charge. However, I might have the totem bind effect confused with the arm or hand effect. Thanks!
Warlock33 01-16-06, 06:15 PM	Gloves of man. Savage species
Basselope 01-16-06, 09:53 PM	Gloves of man. Savage species Is the idea here that even when in bear form I could use the axe? That would be cool.
Lomas 01-16-06, 11:04 PM	You can't get the five ranks in heal required for Deepwarden with five levels of barbarian. You might want to look at the Primeval prestige class in Frostburn instead of Bear Warrior.
Pinky's brain 01-16-06, 11:04 PM	A better option to be able to use your weapon in bear form would be a mouthpick weapon from LoM (not mentioned in the list of sources, but neither was SS). The sweetspot for Bear Warrior is 5 levels. Id not take more than 2 barbarian levels at the start, just go barbarian 2/fighter 2/whatever. If you can't find a way to get weapon attacks in bear form with the allowed sources you really need to have a way to pounce IMO. So you can get some decent damage from leap attack at least.
Marcus Majarra 01-17-06, 12:43 AM	Another idea, assuming I could get the DM to allow it would be to go up to Bear Warrior 5 like you suggest with Warshaper 4 and then toss in Totemist 2 with Fighter 1. Then bind Sphinx Claws to my totem and get full attack on a charge. However, I might have the totem bind effect confused with the arm or hand effect. You have the totem bind effect confused with the hand bind effect. Sphinx Claws bound to your totem chakra simply nets you two claws with enhancements that scale with the essentia invested.
Basselope 01-17-06, 11:18 AM	Ok, how about this. I'm really going to push for MoI. Barbarian 1/ Fighter 2/ Dwarf Paragon 3/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Deepwarden 2/ Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 2/Bear Warrior 2/Totemist 1/Bear Warrior 2/Warshaper 2/Totemist 1 Feats: 1 - Weapon Focus: Dwarven War Axe 2 - Power Attack 3 - Endurance, Improved Bull Rush 6 - Shock Trooper 9 - Leap Attack 12 - Extra Rage or ??? 15 - Open Least Chakra - Hand (for sphinx claws) 18 - Bonus Essentia or ??? The advantage of this is it gives me +2 more to Con from paragon. I had forgotten about UA. He wont allow everything from UA but I don't think that the paragon classes will be an issue. I'll have to check out LoM for that other item suggested. Unfortunately, I don't own that book yet but if it's good enough I might pick it up and then I would probably be able to use it.
Runeblood7 01-17-06, 11:30 AM	I had seen a Bear Warrior build where Unarmed Strike was a viable natural weapon. With Warshaper, you could morph your claws back into hands, though again....this is what I had heard, don't know if it would actually work.
Warlock33 01-17-06, 12:25 PM	..... How did I never think of that!!! That's brilliant! One level of monk for lethal damage with your fists...those are natural weapons. Therefore as a warshaper you can grow them. That is TIGHT
Basselope 01-17-06, 01:00 PM	I had seen a Bear Warrior build where Unarmed Strike was a viable natural weapon. With Warshaper, you could morph your claws back into hands, though again....this is what I had heard, don't know if it would actually work. Ok, I can see that as a benefit if you had more than a d8 for unarmed damage already. However, the claws for the brown bear already do d8 damage and a lvl 1 monk gets a d6 damage. I realize I might not be making a connection here :confused: , so I would appreciate it if someone could point out the benefit. :D
Quenditar 01-17-06, 01:05 PM	Ok, I can see that as a benefit if you had more than a d8 for unarmed damage already. However, the claws for the brown bear already do d8 damage and a lvl 1 monk gets a d6 damage. I realize I might not be making a connection here :confused: , so I would appreciate it if someone could point out the benefit. :D Opposable thumbs. So you can hold your greatsword and get all the THF goodies and a better attack routine. Along the same lines, could you get away with that with a warforged without the monk level? They have a natural slam attack.
Basselope 01-17-06, 01:10 PM	Ahhhhh! Thank you. The only problem with warforged is I would then have to take 3 levels of Stoneblessed to be able to take Deepwarden.
Pinky's brain 01-17-06, 01:42 PM	The advantage of this is it gives me +2 more to Con from paragon.+2 con/AC to me would not be worth giving up uncanny dodge for.
Runeblood7 01-17-06, 02:10 PM	The build Might look like: Dwarf Ex-Monk 3/ Barbarian 3 / Fighter 2 / Deepwarden 2/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Bear Warrior 5 / Warshaper 4 You'd really have to juggle feats around, but it could be a great damage monkey. Give him a Sizing Dwarven Waraxe See if you could switch the Int and Wis scores around. EDIT: BTW, the referance to the monk unarmed damage was for the iterative attacks with THF, especially with EWM thrown in.
zivpeled 01-17-06, 02:30 PM	a little diffrent aproch : barb 2/ ranger 3/ deep warden 2/ bear 5/ warshaper 3(no fast healing :( )/ frost rager 5 you get rend and better claw damage with 15ft feat of threat add abbernt to get to 20ft (LoM) and only power atack, imp.unarmd, frozen berserker are needed feat leaving lots of feats to play with.
Basselope 01-17-06, 02:44 PM	+2 con/AC to me would not be worth giving up uncanny dodge for. Well, since it would only be 2 barbarian levels, it wouldn't be that hard to get around, especially at higher levels. Not to mention the AC and HP will serve me in every fight and the uncanny dodge will serve me situationally and only against PC/NPC/Creatures with rogue (or other class) 5 or less. If it wasn't class levels and was character levels it would be worth a lot more to me.
Basselope 01-17-06, 04:02 PM	Since I don't have Frostburn, what are some of the benefits of Frostrager 5?
Arismir 01-17-06, 04:40 PM	How does any Bear Warrior size up to a Druid 20?
Basselope 01-17-06, 04:48 PM	How does any Bear Warrior size up to a Druid 20? That's not the point. Part of what I'm going for is a lot of HP and a good AC based on my con bonus. The idea came together when I realized that instead of lowering my AC when I rage, I can actually increase it. I looked for something that would raise it the highest in the shortest amount of time. Yes, Barb 20 gets it, but then I don't get Deep Warden or any other classes. I also don't want to have to deal with spells with this character. I just want to run in and hurt things. Part of the reason is that in another game I'm about to start playing an Arcane Heirophant so I'm getting in my druid goodness there. Granted it's not a straight druid but it's close enough for me.
Pinky's brain 01-17-06, 09:19 PM	Well, since it would only be 2 barbarian levels, it wouldn't be that hard to get around, especially at higher levels.You are thinking of improved uncanny dodge. Uncanny dodge is about keeping dex to AC, or in your case con to AC, not about flanking. It cannot be gotten around. You can still be sneak attacked by flanking rogues, as long as you are not in bear form, but they always have to hit your full AC even if they surprise you or are invisible to you. Don't forget, your con to AC is a big part of your AC even in dwarf form. In bearform you loose 19 of your AC to creatures not visible to you without uncanny dodge, that will benefit a lot more creatures than just rogues. From a min/max point of view that vulnerability is in no proportion to the boon of +2 con.
Basselope 01-18-06, 01:40 AM	You are thinking of improved uncanny dodge. Uncanny dodge is about keeping dex to AC, or in your case con to AC, not about flanking. It cannot be gotten around. Thank you for clarifying that. It was what I was thinking of and you are totally right. It makes a lot of sense to go ahead and get Barbarian 2. However, I have managed to work them both into a build. Now if I can manage to convince my DM that my character had a nervous breakdown and jumped from Monk to Barbarian it will be all good. I'm now thinking along the lines of: Dwarf Ex-Monk 2/Barbarian 2/Dwarf Paragon 3/Deep Warden 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Bear Warrior/Warshaper 2/Bear Warrior 4/Warshaper 2/xxxx 1. Perhaps Incarnate or Totemist for the last level. I can't seem to get those 2 classes out of my mind. Not to mention it would be nice to be able to have all the slick bonuses to skills with Incarnate in addition to the other meld abilities out there. Heck, I don't even need to bind anything and I'd get two melds. Anyway, now I would get Uncanny Dodge and Evasion as well as a 50 Con when raging in Bear form. Also depending upon interpretation as suggested earlier, I could use warshape to shift my claws into hands and keep ahold of my Axe and do some decent damage. That might be tough to convince my DM though.
Pinky's brain 01-18-06, 04:02 AM	If you are a monk you could consider being a kungfu bear. Attack with your unarmed strikes as primary weapons, and then follow them up with your claws and bite (all with 1/2 str). This works quite well with PA so a frenzied berserker build would work well, something like : monk 2/barbarian 2/fighter 2/warshaper 2/deepwarden 2/bear warrior 5/frenzied berserker 5 Or frostrager instead of frenzied berserker. The advantage of frostrager are natural armor when raging, an extra flurry, you heal half the cold damage you take, you get higher damage on your unarmed strike and you get a rend which works off unarmed attacks (your DM might rule the natural armor overlaps with that of your bear form, although flavour wise they should stack).
zivpeled 01-18-06, 02:36 PM	Since I don't have Frostburn, what are some of the benefits of Frostrager 5? by level 4 your claws will do 2d6+1d6 cold ull have +6 to AC and the 5th gives rend