Beast Master [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beast Master [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trevdor
05-25-06, 01:06 PM I'm thinking about playing a Beast Master from the Complete Fighter book... I was thinking of going Ranger with bow feats and then Beast Master, so I could send my animals into combat while I stayed back and peppered my enemies with arrows... has anyone seen a good Beast Master build or have any tips? Is it a very good prestige class?

thanks,
trevdor
Arismir
05-25-06, 02:18 PM So far I've really only seen Beast Master as a 1-level dip to beef up animal companions. But, I really think the idea of a fully fleshed Beast Master would be pretty interesting. I don't think it is that optimal of a prc, but why should that stop you from playing it? Off the top of my head I can think of two options. Using bears or using wolves to grapple or trip up your targets and fashioning a melee character based around which animal you use.
ninjarabbit
05-25-06, 03:36 PM The problem with the beastmaster is that the animal companions you get after the first are just too weak to really do anything against what you're facing at that level.
Bonzai
05-25-06, 04:25 PM Actually, I was looking into a Totemist 2/Druid 3/Beastmaster 10/?

The idea was to max out your animal companions. A second level totemist can bind to the Totem Chakra, and the share soulmeld feat can let all your animal companions benefit from your melds.

When I posted the build, there was some arguement about whether the animal companions benifited from the additional affects from being bound to the Totem Chakra and having essentia invested. I argued that they did, as it was the meld that gave the effect. Just like a wizard can share personal spell effects, it can be empowered or not, the end effect is what is shared.

You could go Ranger, but you will have weaker animal companions. So now now all your formerly worthless animal companions can huddle close to you and chuck manticore spines or what have you.

To finish the build, I was thinking about animal lord 5 for more levels of full Babs and animal companion progression. Though I could take levels in the incarnum/divine theurge.

Though it could be fun to make Daar the Beast Master.. Maybe fighter 5/Beast master 10, specializing in the Falchion and having an exotic weapon proficiency in the Chakram.... Sorry that was on the other day.
Necromas
05-25-06, 04:31 PM Even if all your classes grant animal companion levels, at the higher levels, your pets will get slaughtered.
Random Hero
05-25-06, 04:32 PM The question i think is - how does Natural Bond work with multipule companions? Since it adds 4 to your effective druid level but cant pass your HD.

Lets say... Druid 10/ Beast master 10
Natual Bond.
Effective Druid Level 23, HD 20

Primary AC, Effective druid lvl 23
2nd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -3 for the 2nd >
3rd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -6 for 3rd, +4 for Feat >
4th Companion, Effective Druid level 18 < 23, -9 for 4th, +4 for Feat >

thats not to bad at all ... if i reading the way it works correctly that is

<eidt> Nice thing about Aminal companions is, you can replace them with in a day. So they are pretty tough+ the ability to fodder them with out to much worry
Subedei
05-25-06, 04:36 PM Hmmm...With Devoted Tracker and other such things do you think all of your animal campanions would stack? I don't see why it wouldn't. You can get some wicked powerful animal companions through such means.
Random Hero
05-25-06, 04:38 PM Dontforget to add in Companion Spellbound - Share spells out to 30', and all touch spells on yrou companions are now 25' + 5' / 2 levels

Humm, can you share spells with a Heal aswell? - never played a druid. but the ability to buff your whole squad with 1 buff spell on yourself + the ability to heal your whole squad with one big heal on your self seems really nice.
LucRivNor
05-25-06, 04:56 PM The question i think is - how does Natural Bond work with multipule companions? Since it adds 4 to your effective druid level but cant pass your HD.

Lets say... Druid 10/ Beast master 10
Natual Bond.
Effective Druid Level 23, HD 20

Primary AC, Effective druid lvl 23
2nd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -3 for the 2nd >
3rd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -6 for 3rd, +4 for Feat >
4th Companion, Effective Druid level 18 < 23, -9 for 4th, +4 for Feat >

thats not to bad at all ... if i reading the way it works correctly that is

<eidt> Nice thing about Aminal companions is, you can replace them with in a day. So they are pretty tough+ the ability to fodder them with out to much worry

Except for the 1st animal companion, the druid levels don't count for the others animals companion.
Khazra Reborn
05-25-06, 05:03 PM marshal1/druid9/beastmaster10 is good. Take all your animal companions as cats for pounce. Use over the top minor aura so they can each add cha to damage on their charge. or take bears & use motivate str aura, animal growth and grappling.
I prefer the 1st option just because if you get some boots of psionic lions charge and a valorous 2 handed weapon you can do some decent damage aswell.

If i wanted some companion power, i'd go for the following:
"Skin Paw"
wild human afflicted werewolf2*/ranger8/beastmaster10
feats:
1. wild cohort, jotunbrund
3. combat reflexes
4. TWF
6. improved trip
8. ITWF
9. natural bond
12. GTWF
15. EWP "wolf fang" (as drow long knife)
18. improved critical (wolf fang)

*buy off LA, 2 racial HD. If your pre-errata you can make that werewolf paragon at the same ECL for a further +5NA, +15str/dex/con and a disgusting amount of being unfair.

Assuming rolls of say 16/16/14/12/12/8 (powerful but not uber), you look like:
str16+4=20
dex12+4=16
con16+4=20
int14-2=12
wis12+2=14
cha8-2=6
You also have 4 natural armour & 19BAB, meaning your going to be up in the frontline with your wolves tripping what you dont trip & then tear apart with knives and teeth.

This character gets 4 wolf companions. The 2 at later levels are "cubs" ie weak. The other 2 our as follows:

Grey tooth, the head of the pride (animal cohort)
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 13d8+52 (110 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 26 (+4 Dex, +13 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+21
Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+8)
Full Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+8)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, evasion, improved evasion, devotion
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 18, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Feats: TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite)

Stalker, the hunter (main companion)
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 12d8+4 (78 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 27 (+5 Dex, +12 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+13
Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d6+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent,link,share spells, evasion,improved evasion, devotion, multiattack
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Feats: TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite)
Richmud
05-25-06, 07:43 PM I've seen people use incarnate with beastmaster to use disolving spittle from all the companions for massive damage.
AngelLemmingThief
05-25-06, 09:18 PM I've been tempted to try to get a familiar/companion/mount thing together. I've seen builds combining 2 of the 3. But not all 3, though I'm sure it has been done. Tis a shame that paladin and druid go together in a kind of not fashion.
nbhs275
05-25-06, 10:02 PM beast master is potent when properly mixed.

A build that includes marshal or dread pirate are going to have lots of buffed up abilities. Some tigers or lions are deadly(over the top) especially when mixed with a classes that need a high charisma

hexblade 4/blackguard5/marshal1/beastmaster10

You have all kinds of helpers including your animal companions, and your fiendish servent(good mount, over the top, spirited charge, you see were im going right?) and imp familiar(either a good scout while invisible, or one of two melee tanks when self polymorphing) plus you can gain cohort feats.

Anouther direction is the a combat tech. get a bear to grapple, a wolf to trip, a raven to scout, and another animal to tank.

Finally i see this as a fun option. let them act as reach weapons. Bard 4/marshal 4/beastmaster 10/2 ???

Basically you use a whip and your actions to trip your enemies(get art of war) and let your animals surround and beat down any of those enemies that tries to get up. This way you can also have a bear or wolf and let them use their abilities to keep dangerouse foes down...plus its damn fun to have a guy with a zoo of animals and a whip, who uses his voice to inspire his animals to do his bidding.
hogarth
05-25-06, 11:11 PM beast master is potent when properly mixed.

A build that includes marshal or dread pirate are going to have lots of buffed up abilities. Some tigers or lions are deadly(over the top) especially when mixed with a classes that need a high charisma

hexblade 4/blackguard5/marshal1/beastmaster10
Marshal auras only work on allies with Int scores of 3+ (i.e., not animals).
Surreal
05-26-06, 02:57 AM The question i think is - how does Natural Bond work with multipule companions? Since it adds 4 to your effective druid level but cant pass your HD.
Unfortunately, the additional animal companions beyond your first do not stack with druid/ranger levels, so they're pathetically weak and need to be kept out of combat.

Unfortunately^2, natural bond has been errata'd to only work on a single companion. You can take the feat multiple times and apply it to your other companions though.
nbhs275
05-26-06, 06:47 AM but if you add templates to them(many make min int 3) your good, plus your familiar and fiendish servent would get the bonuses too. And don't forget, even if you use the whipping build, you still get the bonus yourself, so you can just have a few tankers to dring the hurt.
Arem_K
05-26-06, 08:31 AM The beast master's extra animal companions are, as someone else pointed out, pretty weak. If you go up to level 10, you will have an 3 extra animal companions. Your druid level for the purpose of these animal comapnions will be 7, 4, and 1. Considering the CRs you will be fighting, most of these things are going to be at very best cannon fodder, and it is implied in places that there should be consequences if you are getting your companions butchered so frequently. On the plus side, that plus three to your animal companion when you first take the class is pretty good.

If you want more animal companions, you should take the wild cohort feat. If you just want more animals, you should look at the warbest template in MM2. Not only does it give animals some nice benefits (and you can apply it to your animal companion) but it also gives the buying price of a warbest version of every animal in the game. The formula is 100 gp plus 75 gp per HD of the animal in question. A T-Rex just costs 1,525 gp...

I am writing a handle animal guide if you are interested. It is, as of right now, incredibly incomplete, but I am very close to another update and it has some decent info on the basics of animal control. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=638839
Surreal
05-26-06, 12:16 PM And the thing with adding templates is that those usually lower your effective druid level as well, unless your DM just hands these sort of things out for free. Even with the inefficient whipping build (which you seem unusually enamoured of) plus the marshal auras, your companions will still be fodder.
nbhs275
05-26-06, 04:12 PM im never said the build was horrible effective(quick the opposite) i just said it was very flavorful. Im sure you could make it better(mix it with a supermount build) and i don't think my suggestion was very optimal..just horribly funny

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trevdor 05-25-06, 01:06 PM	I'm thinking about playing a Beast Master from the Complete Fighter book... I was thinking of going Ranger with bow feats and then Beast Master, so I could send my animals into combat while I stayed back and peppered my enemies with arrows... has anyone seen a good Beast Master build or have any tips? Is it a very good prestige class? thanks, trevdor
Arismir 05-25-06, 02:18 PM	So far I've really only seen Beast Master as a 1-level dip to beef up animal companions. But, I really think the idea of a fully fleshed Beast Master would be pretty interesting. I don't think it is that optimal of a prc, but why should that stop you from playing it? Off the top of my head I can think of two options. Using bears or using wolves to grapple or trip up your targets and fashioning a melee character based around which animal you use.
ninjarabbit 05-25-06, 03:36 PM	The problem with the beastmaster is that the animal companions you get after the first are just too weak to really do anything against what you're facing at that level.
Bonzai 05-25-06, 04:25 PM	Actually, I was looking into a Totemist 2/Druid 3/Beastmaster 10/? The idea was to max out your animal companions. A second level totemist can bind to the Totem Chakra, and the share soulmeld feat can let all your animal companions benefit from your melds. When I posted the build, there was some arguement about whether the animal companions benifited from the additional affects from being bound to the Totem Chakra and having essentia invested. I argued that they did, as it was the meld that gave the effect. Just like a wizard can share personal spell effects, it can be empowered or not, the end effect is what is shared. You could go Ranger, but you will have weaker animal companions. So now now all your formerly worthless animal companions can huddle close to you and chuck manticore spines or what have you. To finish the build, I was thinking about animal lord 5 for more levels of full Babs and animal companion progression. Though I could take levels in the incarnum/divine theurge. Though it could be fun to make Daar the Beast Master.. Maybe fighter 5/Beast master 10, specializing in the Falchion and having an exotic weapon proficiency in the Chakram.... Sorry that was on the other day.
Necromas 05-25-06, 04:31 PM	Even if all your classes grant animal companion levels, at the higher levels, your pets will get slaughtered.
Random Hero 05-25-06, 04:32 PM	The question i think is - how does Natural Bond work with multipule companions? Since it adds 4 to your effective druid level but cant pass your HD. Lets say... Druid 10/ Beast master 10 Natual Bond. Effective Druid Level 23, HD 20 Primary AC, Effective druid lvl 23 2nd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -3 for the 2nd > 3rd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -6 for 3rd, +4 for Feat > 4th Companion, Effective Druid level 18 < 23, -9 for 4th, +4 for Feat > thats not to bad at all ... if i reading the way it works correctly that is <eidt> Nice thing about Aminal companions is, you can replace them with in a day. So they are pretty tough+ the ability to fodder them with out to much worry
Subedei 05-25-06, 04:36 PM	Hmmm...With Devoted Tracker and other such things do you think all of your animal campanions would stack? I don't see why it wouldn't. You can get some wicked powerful animal companions through such means.
Random Hero 05-25-06, 04:38 PM	Dontforget to add in Companion Spellbound - Share spells out to 30', and all touch spells on yrou companions are now 25' + 5' / 2 levels Humm, can you share spells with a Heal aswell? - never played a druid. but the ability to buff your whole squad with 1 buff spell on yourself + the ability to heal your whole squad with one big heal on your self seems really nice.
LucRivNor 05-25-06, 04:56 PM	The question i think is - how does Natural Bond work with multipule companions? Since it adds 4 to your effective druid level but cant pass your HD. Lets say... Druid 10/ Beast master 10 Natual Bond. Effective Druid Level 23, HD 20 Primary AC, Effective druid lvl 23 2nd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -3 for the 2nd > 3rd Companion, Effective Druid Level 20 < 23, -6 for 3rd, +4 for Feat > 4th Companion, Effective Druid level 18 < 23, -9 for 4th, +4 for Feat > thats not to bad at all ... if i reading the way it works correctly that is <eidt> Nice thing about Aminal companions is, you can replace them with in a day. So they are pretty tough+ the ability to fodder them with out to much worry Except for the 1st animal companion, the druid levels don't count for the others animals companion.
Khazra Reborn 05-25-06, 05:03 PM	marshal1/druid9/beastmaster10 is good. Take all your animal companions as cats for pounce. Use over the top minor aura so they can each add cha to damage on their charge. or take bears & use motivate str aura, animal growth and grappling. I prefer the 1st option just because if you get some boots of psionic lions charge and a valorous 2 handed weapon you can do some decent damage aswell. If i wanted some companion power, i'd go for the following: "Skin Paw" wild human afflicted werewolf2/ranger8/beastmaster10 feats: 1. wild cohort, jotunbrund 3. combat reflexes 4. TWF 6. improved trip 8. ITWF 9. natural bond 12. GTWF 15. EWP "wolf fang" (as drow long knife) 18. improved critical (wolf fang) buy off LA, 2 racial HD. If your pre-errata you can make that werewolf paragon at the same ECL for a further +5NA, +15str/dex/con and a disgusting amount of being unfair. Assuming rolls of say 16/16/14/12/12/8 (powerful but not uber), you look like: str16+4=20 dex12+4=16 con16+4=20 int14-2=12 wis12+2=14 cha8-2=6 You also have 4 natural armour & 19BAB, meaning your going to be up in the frontline with your wolves tripping what you dont trip & then tear apart with knives and teeth. This character gets 4 wolf companions. The 2 at later levels are "cubs" ie weak. The other 2 our as follows: Grey tooth, the head of the pride (animal cohort) Large Animal Hit Dice: 13d8+52 (110 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class: 26 (+4 Dex, +13 natural) Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+21 Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+8) Full Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+8) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Trip Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, evasion, improved evasion, devotion Abilities: Str 26, Dex 18, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 Feats: TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite) Stalker, the hunter (main companion) Medium Animal Hit Dice: 12d8+4 (78 hp) Initiative: +5 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class: 27 (+5 Dex, +12 natural) Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+13 Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d6+4) Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d6+4) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Trip Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent,link,share spells, evasion,improved evasion, devotion, multiattack Abilities: Str 18, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 Feats: TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite)
Richmud 05-25-06, 07:43 PM	I've seen people use incarnate with beastmaster to use disolving spittle from all the companions for massive damage.
AngelLemmingThief 05-25-06, 09:18 PM	I've been tempted to try to get a familiar/companion/mount thing together. I've seen builds combining 2 of the 3. But not all 3, though I'm sure it has been done. Tis a shame that paladin and druid go together in a kind of not fashion.
nbhs275 05-25-06, 10:02 PM	beast master is potent when properly mixed. A build that includes marshal or dread pirate are going to have lots of buffed up abilities. Some tigers or lions are deadly(over the top) especially when mixed with a classes that need a high charisma hexblade 4/blackguard5/marshal1/beastmaster10 You have all kinds of helpers including your animal companions, and your fiendish servent(good mount, over the top, spirited charge, you see were im going right?) and imp familiar(either a good scout while invisible, or one of two melee tanks when self polymorphing) plus you can gain cohort feats. Anouther direction is the a combat tech. get a bear to grapple, a wolf to trip, a raven to scout, and another animal to tank. Finally i see this as a fun option. let them act as reach weapons. Bard 4/marshal 4/beastmaster 10/2 ??? Basically you use a whip and your actions to trip your enemies(get art of war) and let your animals surround and beat down any of those enemies that tries to get up. This way you can also have a bear or wolf and let them use their abilities to keep dangerouse foes down...plus its damn fun to have a guy with a zoo of animals and a whip, who uses his voice to inspire his animals to do his bidding.
hogarth 05-25-06, 11:11 PM	beast master is potent when properly mixed. A build that includes marshal or dread pirate are going to have lots of buffed up abilities. Some tigers or lions are deadly(over the top) especially when mixed with a classes that need a high charisma hexblade 4/blackguard5/marshal1/beastmaster10 Marshal auras only work on allies with Int scores of 3+ (i.e., not animals).
Surreal 05-26-06, 02:57 AM	The question i think is - how does Natural Bond work with multipule companions? Since it adds 4 to your effective druid level but cant pass your HD. Unfortunately, the additional animal companions beyond your first do not stack with druid/ranger levels, so they're pathetically weak and need to be kept out of combat. Unfortunately^2, natural bond has been errata'd to only work on a single companion. You can take the feat multiple times and apply it to your other companions though.
nbhs275 05-26-06, 06:47 AM	but if you add templates to them(many make min int 3) your good, plus your familiar and fiendish servent would get the bonuses too. And don't forget, even if you use the whipping build, you still get the bonus yourself, so you can just have a few tankers to dring the hurt.
Arem_K 05-26-06, 08:31 AM	The beast master's extra animal companions are, as someone else pointed out, pretty weak. If you go up to level 10, you will have an 3 extra animal companions. Your druid level for the purpose of these animal comapnions will be 7, 4, and 1. Considering the CRs you will be fighting, most of these things are going to be at very best cannon fodder, and it is implied in places that there should be consequences if you are getting your companions butchered so frequently. On the plus side, that plus three to your animal companion when you first take the class is pretty good. If you want more animal companions, you should take the wild cohort feat. If you just want more animals, you should look at the warbest template in MM2. Not only does it give animals some nice benefits (and you can apply it to your animal companion) but it also gives the buying price of a warbest version of every animal in the game. The formula is 100 gp plus 75 gp per HD of the animal in question. A T-Rex just costs 1,525 gp... I am writing a handle animal guide if you are interested. It is, as of right now, incredibly incomplete, but I am very close to another update and it has some decent info on the basics of animal control. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=638839
Surreal 05-26-06, 12:16 PM	And the thing with adding templates is that those usually lower your effective druid level as well, unless your DM just hands these sort of things out for free. Even with the inefficient whipping build (which you seem unusually enamoured of) plus the marshal auras, your companions will still be fodder.
nbhs275 05-26-06, 04:12 PM	im never said the build was horrible effective(quick the opposite) i just said it was very flavorful. Im sure you could make it better(mix it with a supermount build) and i don't think my suggestion was very optimal..just horribly funny