Post/Author/DateTime	Post
olothfaern 11-12-06, 11:32 AM	I google'd ("legacy champion" site:boards1.wizards.com) and I browsed the results. I couldn't find out what happens when you mix UA bloodlines with Legacy Champion. My frightening assumption (barring errata I haven't seen) is that every level of LgCmp after 12th character level is the equivalent of three levels of any class you had before it. Except for 1st and 7th, and assuming you had a major bloodline. Can someone confirm on deny this? Thanks in advance.
Dragon3 11-12-06, 11:37 AM	And I thought using legacy champion with the incarnate will at least up the BAB of the class. :)
DavidWL 11-13-06, 01:43 AM	I google'd ("legacy champion" site:boards1.wizards.com) and I browsed the results. I couldn't find out what happens when you mix UA bloodlines with Legacy Champion. My frightening assumption (barring errata I haven't seen) is that every level of LgCmp after 12th character level is the equivalent of three levels of any class you had before it. Except for 1st and 7th, and assuming you had a major bloodline. Can someone confirm on deny this? Thanks in advance. Well, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be every level after 12th is the equivalent of 3. Optimistic Scenario *If* it worked, then the Bloodline would increase your legacy champion level by your bloodline level for the purposes of your previous class's abilities. Example: You are a 12th level mystic Theurge wiz 3/cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/bloodline 3 You take Legacy Champion at 13th level => wiz 3/cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/bloodline 3/Legacy Champion 1 (advancing mystic Theurge 0 levels) For the purposes of your legacy champion class abilities, you add the levels of your bloodline to your Legacy Champion levels. However, you can't do this at 1st level, because you don't have the "Class Abilities" ability until 2nd level, and the bloodline won't give you a new ability. When you take your 2nd level in legacy champion, you get the "Class Abilities" ability of the Legacy Champion. At this point, your bloodline adds to your legacy champion level => wiz 3/cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/bloodline 3/Legacy Champion 2 (advancing mystic Theurge 4 levels) If you continue taking another 8 levels of Legacy Champion (into Epic) it becomes: wiz 3/cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/bloodline 3/Legacy Champion 10 (advancing mystic Theurge 11 levels). "Medium" Scenario It works as above, but won't grant additional "class features, spells known, spells per day, etc.". However, you could still "double advance" the class abilities. Example: Bard 9/Bloodline 3/Legacy Champion 2 would have: Bardic Music 16th level (Bard 9 + Bloodline 3 + Legacy Champion (1 + 3 bloodline)) I'd tend to go with this ... basically because the bloodline ability explicitly forbids advancing spellcasting or giving new abilities ... so I wouldn't let it do this indirectly, even through legacy champion. However, it does seem legal to do this to have the bloodlines abilities count double in ways not explicitly forbidden. End Result You can get a 4 level boost in some classes abilities for a 2 level dip in Legacy Champion (without advancing spellcasting or giving new abilites). Pretty good, but not game breaking. My 2 cents. Best, David
fnord 11-13-06, 01:57 AM	And I thought using legacy champion with the incarnate will at least up the BAB of the class. :) Aha, good thought. Even if it works via the "Medium" Scenario described above, most of the incarnate class abilities should be advanced by bloodline. So, Legacy Champion not only increases BAB, but with a Bloodline can also advance the class abilities faster than Incarnate alone.
DavidWL 11-13-06, 02:29 AM	And I thought using legacy champion with the incarnate will at least up the BAB of the class. :) Yeah. I *tend* to think that a: Level 18 character Incarnate 5/Legacy Champion 10/bloodline 3 would have: Incarnate Abilities: 5 (Incarnate) + 3 (bloodline) + 11 (Legacy Champion 8 + 3 Bloodline) = 19 With BAB 2 + 7 = 9 Skills (16 Incarnate + 40 Legacy Champion) = 56 ~ 2.7 skill points / level 6 + 4D6 + 10D8 hit die ~ D6 HD Incarnum and binds of a 19th level incarnate Incarnate abilities of a 13th level incarnate (or possibly 16th depending on interpretation) Legacy Champion bonuses Bloodline 3 abilities Overall, I'd say this was a loser (because you miss out on the highest level chakra binds). Everything you gain stat-wise is negated by the cost of the 3 bloodline levels. Best, David
olothfaern 11-13-06, 03:25 PM	Thanks for you input.