Beautiful Dancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beautiful Dancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psychomessiahs
04-21-05, 02:37 PM A new player wants to join my table and asked me to build a player for her that matches the story. I wrote an adventure, in wich the PCs save a young female elf or halfelf noble from execution. She´s expected to be very beautiful, charming and intelligent. She never had to work, so she should not be very strong. I thought of her as a dancer, or something like that. I build that character, but soon realised, that this chara is ok as an NPC but can´t be played. Could you help me, what I could do, to achive to have her playable? Also even if it´s offtopic, do you have any pics that would match the criteria?
PhaedrusXY
04-21-05, 03:08 PM Hmm... none of that really has much of an effect on her classes. You could go with a bard if you want to really emphasize the dancing. But then again, just having a decent Charisma and a few ranks in Perform could do the same.

I saw a pretty cool build once using Aristocrat as the first level, then going into a standard "Gish" type build. Something like Aristocrat1/Sorcerer6(orWiz)/EldritchKnight10/Spellsword1/X2. If you use Sorcerer, throwing in levels of Sacred Exorcist or something to get more synergy out of the high Charisma stat is a pretty good idea, but adds roleplaying restrictions.
Tempest Stormwind
04-21-05, 03:18 PM Look into levels of Dervish (Complete Warrior) with the Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn) feat. This is pretty hard to screw up in an optimization when you're using these options. Dervish is based around dancing on the battlefield and throwing out a lot of attacks that way (mobile combat), and Snowflake Wardance lets you spend Bardic Music uses to power a special form of combat dance which adds your Charisma modifier to attack rolls (so strength doesn't matter). Couple this with Swashbuckler levels (the quintessential light fighter, plus free Weapon Finesse (no need for strength on attack rolls at all) and Insightful Strike (Intelligence to damage)) and you can even make a decent fighter with a strength penalty.

The usual 'build' for a dervish is Swashbuckler 3 / Fighter 2 / Dervish 10 / Tempest (Complete Adventurer) 5, or something related to this, using two weapons.

In the case of a Snowflake Wardance character (requires bardic music), I'd suggest Bard 3 or 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Dervish 10 / [Any bardic PrC, possibly War Chanter (Complete Warrior), or Tempest if you have all the feats]. Interchange the last PrC levels with the Dervish levels for best effect, and aim for 4 attacks a round (Base Attack Bonus +16 or higher at the end) before you work in magic like Haste.

If you want stealth options, Shadowdancer might be a decent choice as well, and fits with the theme.
catharz
04-21-05, 03:28 PM Spelldancer! :evillaugh

MoF. Elven nobles are expected to learn some magic, right?

Totally new player? 'Cause then Spelldancer might not be such a great idea after all.
UMiskatonic
04-21-05, 03:34 PM You can do a lot with the singing/dancing thing. In addition to the ideas already mentioned, you could add a level of shadowdancer, or levels of bladesinger. You would have a highly stylistic character who would still be quite effective.

To keep this person happy, I would make sure you emphasize how she gets things done with style and grace instead of strength and brute force.
radu the wanderer
04-21-05, 10:42 PM here's a pretty odd build I've been kicking around, with some interesting twists:

Bard 7/Spelldancer 2/Druid 1/Fochlucan Lyricst 10

Bab +16
Fort +7
Ref +12
Will +13

Bard caster level: 19 (6th level spells)
Druid caster level: 11 (6th level spells)
Bardic Lore check: 17
Bardic music uses: 17/day

A pretty handy build all things considered. It gets pretty cool if you can add spelldancer caster levels to Druid instead of Bard-- I'm not sure if you can or not, it's been a while since I've looked at it.

If you can, you can get 7th level druid spells and still not sacrifice your 6th level bard spells!

A couple of cool tricks:

Use your spelldancing to cast persistent buffs, WITH NO METAMAGIC COST. Dance at the beginning of the day and you'll be fine.

Suggested spells:

On quarterstaff:
Shillelagh
Brambles
Spikes
Touch of Adamantine
Ironwood

On yourself:
Camoflage
Hawkeye
Scent
Thornskin
Barkskin
Cat's Grace
Owl's Wisdom
Blinding Beauty
Stoneskin

Of course, not all of these need to be cast, or any of them. The point is, you can use Persistent spell with all of your spells with enough preparation and time.

Good Bard spells to make persistent:
Glibness
Haste
Blink
Weapon of Impact
Freedom of Movement
Nixie's Grace

Take these feats: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Casting, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Snowflake Wardance or Arcane Strike (probably former) and either Arcane Strike or Practiced Spellcaster: Druid.

Enjoy!
Talen Lee
04-22-05, 12:09 AM You did not just seriously suggest Spelldancer to anyone, anywhere, did you?

*checks*

My god, you did.

RUN AWAY!!!
Naja
04-22-05, 12:51 AM You did not just seriously suggest Spelldancer to anyone, anywhere, did you?

Well. i would suggest it to be suggested more often. Just let´s say i think it is balanced by it´s preqs.
In this case, spelldancer would fit nicely into a build. If you don´t want to add Fochlucan Lyrist cheese, stick with bard 7/Spelldancer2/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso2-10. It nets you 9th level Arcane Spells, which can be spelldanced, lots of skill points and 18 levels of Bardic Music.
For feats:
as spelldancer requires 4 feats (Dodge, mobility, endurance & combat casting), you should take some metamagic feats (extend + Persistant isn´t that much on a bard, better take extend and chain or something like that) and Versatile Performer. (as a bonus feat, if available, take either another Metamagic or perhaps some Music feat)
PhaedrusXY
04-22-05, 01:24 AM You did not just seriously suggest Spelldancer to anyone, anywhere, did you?

*checks*

My god, you did.

RUN AWAY!!!It isn't as broken in 3.5, as you can't multiple Empower things, which was the main abuse in 3.0.
Tempest Stormwind
04-22-05, 01:58 AM The original poster said a new player was joining, and that she had her character BUILT FOR HER -- which implies that it's a new player to the game, not just a new player at that table.

Therefore, a physical build is likely to be better than a magical one, especially one that relies on metamagic.

Hence my suggestion of Dervish. Snowflake Wardance might let her put stunning good looks to use in battle, but with weapon finesse it's not too terribly critical.

A variant would use Divine Might somehow, which would get even more charisma synergy, but this would probably involve cleric or paladin levels, and another degree of complication.

You could go on a slight variation of this -- I refer you to Smilin' Jack (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4719190), a very charismatic dervish. (Alter Barbarian and Snow Tiger Berserker to something more bardic, or perhaps another Marshal level, and you've nearly completely dropped the strength dependance!).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psychomessiahs 04-21-05, 02:37 PM	A new player wants to join my table and asked me to build a player for her that matches the story. I wrote an adventure, in wich the PCs save a young female elf or halfelf noble from execution. She´s expected to be very beautiful, charming and intelligent. She never had to work, so she should not be very strong. I thought of her as a dancer, or something like that. I build that character, but soon realised, that this chara is ok as an NPC but can´t be played. Could you help me, what I could do, to achive to have her playable? Also even if it´s offtopic, do you have any pics that would match the criteria?
PhaedrusXY 04-21-05, 03:08 PM	Hmm... none of that really has much of an effect on her classes. You could go with a bard if you want to really emphasize the dancing. But then again, just having a decent Charisma and a few ranks in Perform could do the same. I saw a pretty cool build once using Aristocrat as the first level, then going into a standard "Gish" type build. Something like Aristocrat1/Sorcerer6(orWiz)/EldritchKnight10/Spellsword1/X2. If you use Sorcerer, throwing in levels of Sacred Exorcist or something to get more synergy out of the high Charisma stat is a pretty good idea, but adds roleplaying restrictions.
Tempest Stormwind 04-21-05, 03:18 PM	Look into levels of Dervish (Complete Warrior) with the Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn) feat. This is pretty hard to screw up in an optimization when you're using these options. Dervish is based around dancing on the battlefield and throwing out a lot of attacks that way (mobile combat), and Snowflake Wardance lets you spend Bardic Music uses to power a special form of combat dance which adds your Charisma modifier to attack rolls (so strength doesn't matter). Couple this with Swashbuckler levels (the quintessential light fighter, plus free Weapon Finesse (no need for strength on attack rolls at all) and Insightful Strike (Intelligence to damage)) and you can even make a decent fighter with a strength penalty. The usual 'build' for a dervish is Swashbuckler 3 / Fighter 2 / Dervish 10 / Tempest (Complete Adventurer) 5, or something related to this, using two weapons. In the case of a Snowflake Wardance character (requires bardic music), I'd suggest Bard 3 or 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Dervish 10 / [Any bardic PrC, possibly War Chanter (Complete Warrior), or Tempest if you have all the feats]. Interchange the last PrC levels with the Dervish levels for best effect, and aim for 4 attacks a round (Base Attack Bonus +16 or higher at the end) before you work in magic like Haste. If you want stealth options, Shadowdancer might be a decent choice as well, and fits with the theme.
catharz 04-21-05, 03:28 PM	Spelldancer! :evillaugh MoF. Elven nobles are expected to learn some magic, right? Totally new player? 'Cause then Spelldancer might not be such a great idea after all.
UMiskatonic 04-21-05, 03:34 PM	You can do a lot with the singing/dancing thing. In addition to the ideas already mentioned, you could add a level of shadowdancer, or levels of bladesinger. You would have a highly stylistic character who would still be quite effective. To keep this person happy, I would make sure you emphasize how she gets things done with style and grace instead of strength and brute force.
radu the wanderer 04-21-05, 10:42 PM	here's a pretty odd build I've been kicking around, with some interesting twists: Bard 7/Spelldancer 2/Druid 1/Fochlucan Lyricst 10 Bab +16 Fort +7 Ref +12 Will +13 Bard caster level: 19 (6th level spells) Druid caster level: 11 (6th level spells) Bardic Lore check: 17 Bardic music uses: 17/day A pretty handy build all things considered. It gets pretty cool if you can add spelldancer caster levels to Druid instead of Bard-- I'm not sure if you can or not, it's been a while since I've looked at it. If you can, you can get 7th level druid spells and still not sacrifice your 6th level bard spells! A couple of cool tricks: Use your spelldancing to cast persistent buffs, WITH NO METAMAGIC COST. Dance at the beginning of the day and you'll be fine. Suggested spells: On quarterstaff: Shillelagh Brambles Spikes Touch of Adamantine Ironwood On yourself: Camoflage Hawkeye Scent Thornskin Barkskin Cat's Grace Owl's Wisdom Blinding Beauty Stoneskin Of course, not all of these need to be cast, or any of them. The point is, you can use Persistent spell with all of your spells with enough preparation and time. Good Bard spells to make persistent: Glibness Haste Blink Weapon of Impact Freedom of Movement Nixie's Grace Take these feats: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Casting, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Snowflake Wardance or Arcane Strike (probably former) and either Arcane Strike or Practiced Spellcaster: Druid. Enjoy!
Talen Lee 04-22-05, 12:09 AM	You did not just seriously suggest Spelldancer to anyone, anywhere, did you? checks My god, you did. RUN AWAY!!!
Naja 04-22-05, 12:51 AM	You did not just seriously suggest Spelldancer to anyone, anywhere, did you? Well. i would suggest it to be suggested more often. Just let´s say i think it is balanced by it´s preqs. In this case, spelldancer would fit nicely into a build. If you don´t want to add Fochlucan Lyrist cheese, stick with bard 7/Spelldancer2/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso2-10. It nets you 9th level Arcane Spells, which can be spelldanced, lots of skill points and 18 levels of Bardic Music. For feats: as spelldancer requires 4 feats (Dodge, mobility, endurance & combat casting), you should take some metamagic feats (extend + Persistant isn´t that much on a bard, better take extend and chain or something like that) and Versatile Performer. (as a bonus feat, if available, take either another Metamagic or perhaps some Music feat)
PhaedrusXY 04-22-05, 01:24 AM	You did not just seriously suggest Spelldancer to anyone, anywhere, did you? checks My god, you did. RUN AWAY!!!It isn't as broken in 3.5, as you can't multiple Empower things, which was the main abuse in 3.0.
Tempest Stormwind 04-22-05, 01:58 AM	The original poster said a new player was joining, and that she had her character BUILT FOR HER -- which implies that it's a new player to the game, not just a new player at that table. Therefore, a physical build is likely to be better than a magical one, especially one that relies on metamagic. Hence my suggestion of Dervish. Snowflake Wardance might let her put stunning good looks to use in battle, but with weapon finesse it's not too terribly critical. A variant would use Divine Might somehow, which would get even more charisma synergy, but this would probably involve cleric or paladin levels, and another degree of complication. You could go on a slight variation of this -- I refer you to Smilin' Jack (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4719190), a very charismatic dervish. (Alter Barbarian and Snow Tiger Berserker to something more bardic, or perhaps another Marshal level, and you've nearly completely dropped the strength dependance!).