Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LdPhebos 01-17-06, 01:53 PM	Alter Self, and Polymorph have HD caps. Shapechange is a long long way off (we are starting at 12th level). Any way to become a Colosal Dragon or something equaly nice without worring about the HD cap of spells? It doesn't matter if its through arcane or divine Master Transmografist (CA) is nice for the (ex) abilites in conjunction with Assume supernatural Ability Savage Species). The goal here is to become as close to one of the greater dragons, without actualy taking dragon racial hit dice. (And no Wish b/c that is way too far off :_( )
lostone 01-17-06, 02:21 PM	Are you just wanting the colossal size? If so explore the possibility of a Master Transmogrifist build taking the largest dragon you can at your level and then using various spells to make you bigger. Or see if your DM will allow Divine Minion's wild shape to stack with druid levels and MoMF levels. If so take the Dragon Wild Shape from Draconomicon and you'll be wildshaping 11 HD higher than yourself, then combine that with enlarging spells. Otherwise I think you may be out of luck.
P33KAJ3W 01-17-06, 02:49 PM	Poly has a cap of one size larger by RAW.
Reiner 01-17-06, 03:00 PM	If you're looking for Size, Dragon Wild Shape from Draconomicon isn't going to work, it allows dragon shapes of small or medium size.
lostone 01-18-06, 09:36 AM	Poly has a cap of one size larger by RAW.If you're looking for Size, Dragon Wild Shape from Draconomicon isn't going to work, it allows dragon shapes of small or medium size.What I meant was use polymorph or dragon wild shape and then use a spell like Enlarge to increase your size further. If you can find multiple effects that stack to increase your size multiple times, it should still be possible to hit the Colossal mark.
WombleHunter 01-18-06, 09:38 AM	Enlarge Person won't work on a dragon.
lostone 01-18-06, 09:43 AM	Enlarge Person won't work on a dragon.Notice how I said "spells like Enlarge." :rolleyes: I believe there are other effects that produce a similar effect (increasing size) that do. I'm just throwing out ideas, I'm not researching them due to a lack of time and lack of books (I'm at work). Although it does make me wonder. Could you cast enlarge person, make yourself bigger while you're a humanoid and then cast polymorph based on your current magically enhanced size?
Noria Merfolk Mage 01-18-06, 10:55 AM	Check the Godzilla Thread in my sig for various cute tricks.
WombleHunter 01-18-06, 11:36 AM	Although it does make me wonder. Could you cast enlarge person, make yourself bigger while you're a humanoid and then cast polymorph based on your current magically enhanced size? I beleive that once you are no longer a valid target for the spell, the spell stops functioning. I could be wrong though.
MoonSprite 01-18-06, 11:55 AM	Maybe Wu Jen with Giant Size and Polymorph?
Nifft 01-18-06, 08:21 PM	How about psionics? Expansion can help you grow up to two size categories. -- N
Gehenna 01-18-06, 10:18 PM	I second the use of psionics. Metamorphosis + Expansion will do quite nicely. You'll be able to manage a Large dragon with metamorphosis (Red, Gold, Fang, Howling, Pyroclastic, Radiant, or Tarterian) and get to Gargantuan with Expansion. Hmm...I can't think of any way to get up to Colossal at the moment though.
jedrious 01-19-06, 12:28 AM	as long as Epic isn't out of the question Dragon #339 pg 22 has an epic prestige class for cerebremancers that turns you into a dragon
Gehenna 01-19-06, 01:11 AM	as long as Epic isn't out of the question Dragon #339 pg 22 has an epic prestige class for cerebremancers that turns you into a dragon If he's saying that Wish and Shapechange are too far away, I think that applies to epic as well. If you go with Wu Jen, you could polymorph into one of the Large@13HD dragons and use giant size (7th level spell = 13th level and therefore 13hd) although you'd need a way to boost your caster level to 19
PhaedrusXY 01-19-06, 02:54 AM	Poly has a cap of one size larger by RAW.They removed that restriction in 3.5. Polymorph says can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine. It doesn't say anything about a restriction on how big you can get, though. And really, saying you can't become smaller than Fine doesn't mean anything, either, as Fine is the smallest size in D&D... Also, the Sage said that the size cap is gone in 3.5 in a rules of the game article, and the 3.5 FAQ says there is no size limit on Polymorph, also. Alter self (Player’s Handbook, page 197), the base spell in the polymorph chain, says that the new form must be within one size category of your normal size. Is the same true of other spells in the chain? Not necessarily, although the rules aren’t as clear as they could be. Polymorph, and any spell that refers back to it (such as polymorph any object), allows the new form to be of any size of Fine or greater. Shapechange specifically delineates its size limitations (Fine to Colossal), which is a much clearer way of saying the same thing.
FriendlyBiscuit 01-19-06, 05:15 AM	You can always Enlarge Person/Permanency to get yourself partway there. Can Permanency affect the Wu Jen spell everyone's talking about?