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Begginer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MindLich
11-07-06, 06:41 PM Hi, I'm a begginer DM and trying to learn optimization. Would a Fighter Lvl 1, with Monkey Grip, Power Attack and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword be worth it. He would hold a huge bastard sword. The bastard sword is one handed and does 1d10 damage, when using Monkey Grip the Bastard Sword is one size larger and does 2d8 damage. Then, if you take a -2 penalty to attack rolls you can make it one size larger and wield it two handed. So it does 3d8 damage. Then, you get the wizard to Enlarge Person on you so the Bastard Sword and the damage grow higher. But how much damage would it do, and would it be a good build? Is there any problems with it? Thanks for any inputs.
Repeekluos
11-07-06, 06:50 PM Monkey grip is overall pretty terrible.
You trade minimal damage for a -2 to hit. At level one it isnt a good option at all.
Power attack actually gives you a lot more damage in the long run. Weapon focus is better choice for you, as you will hit more often, and you will be able to use your power attack, for one, and not lose anything.

Edit:
How are you getting a BS larger than huge? Even with MG, it would be large (assuming human), then, with enlarge person, it should only be huge.
MindLich
11-07-06, 06:55 PM But, technically you only have a -1 to attack bonus because of the enlarge. Then if you have an 18 in strength you get a total of +4 attack bonus. And if the damage roll is 4d8+7 then your average damage is 23 hit points which would kill any CR1 monster in a hit, unless it was undead or had DR.
Repeekluos
11-07-06, 07:02 PM Huh?
Enlarge doesn't take your to hit up. It equals out because you receive a negative from size. With an 18 str, MG, at level one, a fight would have +4, +1, -2=+3 to hit. If you power attack, you take it down to +2. With WF instead, you have +4, +1, +1,=+6, if you PA it =+5. Your odds to hit are more than doubled, and you damage on average, will only be 3-4 lower.
Pinky's brain
11-07-06, 07:34 PM Repeekluos, he is using an oversized bastardsword in addition to using monkeygrip (for a total to hit penalty of -4).

MindLich, it works and you would do 4d8 base damage (weapon size table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize)). You aren't going to hitting much though with that attack bonus ... assuming base strength 16 and opponent's AC 16 you would have to roll 16-20 to hit. So your average damage would only be 0.25 * (4d8 +
6) = 6.

Compare that to a greatsword user. He would only be doing 3d6, but he would hit on 12-20. His average damage would be 0.45 * (3d6 + 6) = 7.425.

Monkey grip doesn't make sense unless you are really large (gargantuan+).
PhoenixInferno
11-07-06, 07:43 PM I thought it was Huge+ where Monkey Grip started to make sense.
Senevri
11-07-06, 08:35 PM Be an Awakened Grasshopper (fine) or something equally silly small. Pick Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike - which doesn't have size modifiers to it's list of fist damage - Add Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse and Improved Natural Attack. Wonder at your 3d6 fists.

...Yeah, I know, but the table on pg 33 on ToB doesn't have size scales.
...OK, so it doesn't quite work like that. Fine.

Ahem. In any case, Superior Unarmed Strike + Improved Natural Attack will eventually give damage equal to dual-wielding two large Greatswords. At no penalty. Plus, it scales if you increase in size. Enlarge nets 4d6 fist damage and such.

(edit)
Well, you need to gain more than 4 average damage from the size increase, so after 6d6 when it jumps to 8d6, I believe...

Titan Bloodline is probably the best way to access too large weapons, although arguably one could read you just get to use Gargantuan Warhammers.
MindLich
11-07-06, 09:35 PM Thank you all for all your imputs. It has been great help to me, and will learn how to calculate the bonuses so that I have a higher average damage. That must be why my BBEG was cut down so easily. Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MindLich 11-07-06, 06:41 PM	Hi, I'm a begginer DM and trying to learn optimization. Would a Fighter Lvl 1, with Monkey Grip, Power Attack and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword be worth it. He would hold a huge bastard sword. The bastard sword is one handed and does 1d10 damage, when using Monkey Grip the Bastard Sword is one size larger and does 2d8 damage. Then, if you take a -2 penalty to attack rolls you can make it one size larger and wield it two handed. So it does 3d8 damage. Then, you get the wizard to Enlarge Person on you so the Bastard Sword and the damage grow higher. But how much damage would it do, and would it be a good build? Is there any problems with it? Thanks for any inputs.
Repeekluos 11-07-06, 06:50 PM	Monkey grip is overall pretty terrible. You trade minimal damage for a -2 to hit. At level one it isnt a good option at all. Power attack actually gives you a lot more damage in the long run. Weapon focus is better choice for you, as you will hit more often, and you will be able to use your power attack, for one, and not lose anything. Edit: How are you getting a BS larger than huge? Even with MG, it would be large (assuming human), then, with enlarge person, it should only be huge.
MindLich 11-07-06, 06:55 PM	But, technically you only have a -1 to attack bonus because of the enlarge. Then if you have an 18 in strength you get a total of +4 attack bonus. And if the damage roll is 4d8+7 then your average damage is 23 hit points which would kill any CR1 monster in a hit, unless it was undead or had DR.
Repeekluos 11-07-06, 07:02 PM	Huh? Enlarge doesn't take your to hit up. It equals out because you receive a negative from size. With an 18 str, MG, at level one, a fight would have +4, +1, -2=+3 to hit. If you power attack, you take it down to +2. With WF instead, you have +4, +1, +1,=+6, if you PA it =+5. Your odds to hit are more than doubled, and you damage on average, will only be 3-4 lower.
Pinky's brain 11-07-06, 07:34 PM	Repeekluos, he is using an oversized bastardsword in addition to using monkeygrip (for a total to hit penalty of -4). MindLich, it works and you would do 4d8 base damage (weapon size table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize)). You aren't going to hitting much though with that attack bonus ... assuming base strength 16 and opponent's AC 16 you would have to roll 16-20 to hit. So your average damage would only be 0.25 * (4d8 + 6) = 6. Compare that to a greatsword user. He would only be doing 3d6, but he would hit on 12-20. His average damage would be 0.45 * (3d6 + 6) = 7.425. Monkey grip doesn't make sense unless you are really large (gargantuan+).
PhoenixInferno 11-07-06, 07:43 PM	I thought it was Huge+ where Monkey Grip started to make sense.
Senevri 11-07-06, 08:35 PM	Be an Awakened Grasshopper (fine) or something equally silly small. Pick Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike - which doesn't have size modifiers to it's list of fist damage - Add Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse and Improved Natural Attack. Wonder at your 3d6 fists. ...Yeah, I know, but the table on pg 33 on ToB doesn't have size scales. ...OK, so it doesn't quite work like that. Fine. Ahem. In any case, Superior Unarmed Strike + Improved Natural Attack will eventually give damage equal to dual-wielding two large Greatswords. At no penalty. Plus, it scales if you increase in size. Enlarge nets 4d6 fist damage and such. (edit) Well, you need to gain more than 4 average damage from the size increase, so after 6d6 when it jumps to 8d6, I believe... Titan Bloodline is probably the best way to access too large weapons, although arguably one could read you just get to use Gargantuan Warhammers.
MindLich 11-07-06, 09:35 PM	Thank you all for all your imputs. It has been great help to me, and will learn how to calculate the bonuses so that I have a higher average damage. That must be why my BBEG was cut down so easily. Thanks again.