Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jameswilliamogle 05-16-06, 12:57 PM	I would've posted this in one of the few Beguiler threads that I've seen, but I can't seem to find them... 36 pb, forced multiclass, with no multiclass penalty, starting at 2nd, home-brew campaign. Any core books, Completes, Races, environmental books are allowed, but campaign specific books require DM approval. Beguiler 18 (1st, 3rd-7th, 9th-20th) / Fighter 1 (2nd) / Mindbender 1 (8th) (much love to Caelic's Mindbender placement, I think, for delaying Advanced Knowledge by 1 level) Grey Elf Str 8, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 20, Wis 8, Cha 14 Feats (by level) 1: Skill Focus: Concentration - retrained at 20th to Sp Foci or similar 2: Combat Expertise 3: Improved Feint 6: Spell Focus: Enchantment or Illusion (have to get a "feel" for the spells) 7: Silent Spell 9: Heighten Spell (more effective lower level spells this way) 11: Still Spell 12: Chain Spell (chained charms) 15: Extraordinary Concentration 18: Mobile Spellcasting (or Gr Sp Foci, have to get a "feel" for it again) Advanced Learning 3: Distract Assailant 8: Shadow Conjuration - retrained to Phantasmal Killer at 20th 12: Shadow Evocation - retrained to Greater Heroism at 16th 16: Greater Shadow Evocation 20: Shades edit: after playing this guy for a few levels, I realized a few things, namely 1. Improved Feint is worthless. You're casting Invisibility to keep the opponents flatfooted by the time you get the swift feint options and staying as far away from combat as you can. Horrible suggestion, WotC, and what a waste of swift feint (might be useful in some twinked-out rogue builds, though). 2. Cloaked Casting just doesn't feel like it makes that big of a difference; I know it is, but it just doesn't "feel" like it (the DM keeps lots of those rolls secret, which contributes, but the extra +1 or 2 DC for 2 feats to do it as a swift action is a waste). 3. If I could redo it, I'd take Sp Foci / Gr Sp Foci Enchantment in it's place, and simply count on going invisible for enhancing spells. 4. I have no regrets about the spell selection so far; currently 7th level - we'll see if the DM allows retraining or not.
ChrisAsmadi 05-16-06, 01:34 PM	Drop Combat Casting and the fighter level. Push Combat Expertise back a level. Also, if you intend to be a skill monkey, stick with light armor. You don't want Armor Check Penalties. Try and grab Accelerate Metamagic(Heighten Spell) for the 'Swift Feint, Heightened Hold Person, Run Away' combo which I find useful for quick getaways.
LucRivNor 05-16-06, 01:44 PM	Extend spell/Master of Dream is Better than Combat Expertise/Improved Feint. When you could feint as a move action and be able to move in casting (mobile spell casting), its enough so spend the feat for more power... Also with mithril full-plate, you lose 10ft of mobility. The strategy of this guy is not to have an high AC; it is to not being able to be hited. Hide, invisibility, blur like effect, mirror image, ... You could probably play a Beguiler in a party who don't know they have a Beguiler in their party! Just roleplay with your puppets (charmed/dominated) and always be hiden/disguise near. Your could probably try to convince your DM you always have puppet character with level of a bad will save class as if you have the Leadership Feat. Let your puppet fight. And by the way, the spell focus(enchantment) and the Greater one are really good.
Richmud 05-16-06, 03:21 PM	I think you might be better off with a diffrent level then fighter for your forced multiclass. Personally I would go with spellthief to obtain a bit of SA and the steal spell ability isn't bad. Normal rogue can be another good option
jameswilliamogle 05-16-06, 04:29 PM	K, thanks for the comments! Which books are Master of Dreams, Accelerate Metamagic from? They sound interesting... The Combat Casting I think is pretty necessary at 1st: I have to make a DC 24 by 19th level for guaranteed defensive casting, and I don't see another way to do it, and besides, I'm planning on retraining it later. I know its not as effective later, but I've got to play him from 2nd level on. Anyways, the plan was to just keep using invisibility, and strike the opponents flatfooted that way, not to be feinting too often if I could avoid it; I just thought feinting as a swift action was too cool. About the armor: I wasn't going to invest in many ACP skills (tumble, sure, but the rest, no) since spells negate the stealth skills (and it's just a -3 penalty, too - not so bad). I was going to invest heavily into the search/spot/disable set since the Scout in the group is a newbie and it kind of makes me nervous. I would be happy to look at other multiclass options, but the Fighter level seems so front-loaded for this class (plus there's always the combat expertise bonus).
ChrisAsmadi 05-16-06, 04:41 PM	If you intend to use social skills, dip Marshall. Add Cha Mod to Cha based Skill Checks. Twice. All day long. Mastery of Dreams is from the Player's Guide to Eberron. Accelerate Metamagic is from Races of the Dragon.
SoulGamit 05-16-06, 06:17 PM	Do you plan on focusing on illusions or enchantments? Be Dragonborn Whisper Gnome for race. For feats: 1. Versitile Spellcaster 3. Extend Spell 6. Battle Caster 9. Spell Focus (Enchantment) 12. Extrordinary Concentration 15. Chain Spell 18. Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) or Practical Metamagic (Chain Spell) An alternative is to go Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / Beguiler 2 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 / Beguiler 6 With this set up I'd place my feats as... 1. Versitile Spellcaster 3. Earth Sense 6. Battle Caster 9. Heighten Spell 12. Earth Spell 15. Practical Metamagic (Heighten Spell) 18. Accelerated Metamagic (Heighten Spell) I didn't include any bonus feats, and as long as beguiler is your first level that multiclass thing won't be too big of a problem. Some good multi-class options include the Marshel or Fighter. Personally, I wouldn't use battle caster, but it's your choice.
jameswilliamogle 05-17-06, 01:21 PM	Battlecaster was just an idea; it doesn't really have to be included. Sp Foci: Enchantment or Illusion does sound much more appealing, after looking more closely at the spell selection. I don't know where Versatile Spellcaster is from; Races of Dragon is in the mail, still, but due to campaign restrictions (dragons are "coming back") we can't be dragonkin or anything like that. The campaign started last night; I went with the Grey Elf Beguiler 1 / Fighter 1 (Combat Casting & Combat Expertise) (a few zombies made the character worthless until I started using my Glaive from behind the tank to use aid another on his attack). I realise Marshall would've been killer, but none of us have the Miniatures Handbook (sob), the only requirement for us to use a non-core book. It might take as long as a month before we hit 6th, so I've got time to plan/modify.
LucRivNor 05-17-06, 01:46 PM	K, thanks for the comments! Which books are Master of Dreams[...]? They sound interesting... Player's guide to Eberron
Richmud 05-17-06, 05:19 PM	skill focus (concentration) is generally better then combat casting so that might be a change to make
jameswilliamogle 05-17-06, 05:41 PM	skill focus (concentration) is generally better then combat casting so that might be a change to makev. good suggestion; and since the dm doesn't know i have combat casting, and it hasn't been used yet, i'll just make the change w/o him knowing :D