Beguiler Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Destindbomb
02-13-07, 09:15 AM I'm trying my hand at making a beguiler and I had a few issues. I am Human with one flaw from Unearthed Arcanna. I'm a level 6 Beguiler. (we started high for roleplay reasons)

1) Feat choices. I'm already getting Improved Feint, but I don't know about the rest.

2)I know that Prestidigitaion isn't on the spell list for them and it is a Universal spell, but for my advanced learning, I think that it should be elligible to choose. It works on a flavor reason because it makes something seem more than it is. Has anybody ever argued that Prestidigitaion should be illusion? And do you think that there is something I could say that help persuade my DM to allow it?

Thank you in advanced and before anyone asks, I have all core books, CWar, CDiv, CArc, PHB2, and Savage Species to choose from. So please stick to those.

Again, Thank You in advance!
LucRivNor
02-13-07, 11:59 AM Beguiler Handbook

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=635691
jameswilliamogle
02-13-07, 01:58 PM Improved Feint, even on a Beguiler who would get swift action feint, isn't so great. You want to be far, far away from melee. Combat Expertise is pretty worthless, too, as you need to make an attack to activate it. You'll be relying on spells past 6th or so, and who needs to feint when you have swift spells? Take 1 level of Mindbender, and the Mindsight feat (LoM, under the Tsochar chapter).

SF: Enchantment, GSF: Enchantment, Spell Penetration, GSpell Penetration, SF: Illusion, GSF: Illusion, Mindsight, Heighten Spell, Chain Spell, Extend Spell, Rapid Metamagic, Extraordinary Concentration, and item creation are all good feats. Only Scribe Scroll requires you to have both the spell and the feat to make them; all the others you can make using another persons spells.

Pick up some of the Skill Tricks from complete scoundrel (like 2-3). The manipulation tricks seem particularly useful, as does the Swift Concentration one.

For your Advanced Learning idea, I don't think a DM would have a problem with it if you just described the purpose as you just did.
Father Tim
02-13-07, 08:09 PM The Sculpt Spell feat is awesome when applied to your Colour Spray, Glitterdust, & Whelming Burst spells, and you meet the prerequisite due to your Silent Spell bonus feat. I heartily second taking Mindbender 1 as soon as possible, as it has no drawbacks, grants a nice power (Telepathy 100') and delays your Advanced Learning class feature by one level, raising the level spells you can get with it.
Destindbomb
02-14-07, 09:54 PM I have 3 levels of human paragon to offset the advanced learning thing and I was thinking the "phantasmal Strangler" spell from Complete Mage. Plus that bonus feat can get me that metamagic school focus.
Xeraph
02-15-07, 07:46 AM The truth:
If you pick up a level of mindbender at 6th level, you'll delay access to the second expanded knowledge until you're capable of casting 4th level spells, which means you could pick up a 4th level shadow spell at 8th level, allowing you to qualify for shadowcraft mage at 9th level. Personally, I would take shadow well (SC) since it seems rather pointless to take shadow conjurations, given the class abilities of the shadowcraft mage.

1) Beguiler 1 Heighten Spell (1) Earth Sense (F) Earth Spell (F)
2) Beguiler 2
3) Beguiler 3 Spell Focus (Illusion) (3)
4) Beguiler 4
5) Beguiler 5 Silent Spell (B5)
6) Mind Bender 1 Mindsight (6)
7) Beguiler 6
8) Beguiler 7 expanded knowledge: shadow well
9) Shadowcraft Mage 1
10) Shadowcraft Mage 2
11) Shadowcraft Mage 3
12) Shadowcraft Mage 4
13) Shadowcraft Mage 5

After that going back to beguiler isnt a bad choice, given all the skill points you get. A few levels of fatespinner would work pretty well, given how save dependant a lot of the beguilers spells are.

SF/GSF enchantment would make for decent feat choices, as would spell rehersal and mobile casting (or whatever its called). Extend spell is always nice for an enchantment heavy caster.
WombleHunter
02-15-07, 07:55 AM An amusing one I came up with the other day:

Silverbrow Human Beguiler with Mindbender 1
Level/Feat
1 Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
3 Quicken Spell
5 (Beguiler Bonus) Silent Spell
6 Efficient Metamagic (Silent Spell)
9 Rapid Metamagic
11 (Beguiler Bonus) Still Spell
12 Efficient Metamagic (Still Spell)

Thus, by 12th level all of your spells can be Still and Silent for no cost at all: you can walk into a room, think for a second and suddenly everyone in there is your best friend for no apparent reason. If someone resists, drop a Quickened Charm or something. You can also deliver your commands and Suggestions telepathically.

Ok, so not hugely optimised unless you're playing an urban or intrigue game, I suppose. Still, having "invisible" spellcasting is cool, and I just liked the idea of a character that is always fawned over wherever he went, for no apparent reason...
Sithobi1
02-15-07, 08:10 AM "Efficient Metamagic"? Where's that from? Practical Metamagic won't reduce the cost below 1...
WombleHunter
02-15-07, 09:28 AM Races of the Dragon. You need the (Dragonblood) subtype to take the feats, which is why the character is a Silverbrow Human from Dragon Magic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Destindbomb 02-13-07, 09:15 AM	I'm trying my hand at making a beguiler and I had a few issues. I am Human with one flaw from Unearthed Arcanna. I'm a level 6 Beguiler. (we started high for roleplay reasons) 1) Feat choices. I'm already getting Improved Feint, but I don't know about the rest. 2)I know that Prestidigitaion isn't on the spell list for them and it is a Universal spell, but for my advanced learning, I think that it should be elligible to choose. It works on a flavor reason because it makes something seem more than it is. Has anybody ever argued that Prestidigitaion should be illusion? And do you think that there is something I could say that help persuade my DM to allow it? Thank you in advanced and before anyone asks, I have all core books, CWar, CDiv, CArc, PHB2, and Savage Species to choose from. So please stick to those. Again, Thank You in advance!
LucRivNor 02-13-07, 11:59 AM	Beguiler Handbook http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=635691
jameswilliamogle 02-13-07, 01:58 PM	Improved Feint, even on a Beguiler who would get swift action feint, isn't so great. You want to be far, far away from melee. Combat Expertise is pretty worthless, too, as you need to make an attack to activate it. You'll be relying on spells past 6th or so, and who needs to feint when you have swift spells? Take 1 level of Mindbender, and the Mindsight feat (LoM, under the Tsochar chapter). SF: Enchantment, GSF: Enchantment, Spell Penetration, GSpell Penetration, SF: Illusion, GSF: Illusion, Mindsight, Heighten Spell, Chain Spell, Extend Spell, Rapid Metamagic, Extraordinary Concentration, and item creation are all good feats. Only Scribe Scroll requires you to have both the spell and the feat to make them; all the others you can make using another persons spells. Pick up some of the Skill Tricks from complete scoundrel (like 2-3). The manipulation tricks seem particularly useful, as does the Swift Concentration one. For your Advanced Learning idea, I don't think a DM would have a problem with it if you just described the purpose as you just did.
Father Tim 02-13-07, 08:09 PM	The Sculpt Spell feat is awesome when applied to your Colour Spray, Glitterdust, & Whelming Burst spells, and you meet the prerequisite due to your Silent Spell bonus feat. I heartily second taking Mindbender 1 as soon as possible, as it has no drawbacks, grants a nice power (Telepathy 100') and delays your Advanced Learning class feature by one level, raising the level spells you can get with it.
Destindbomb 02-14-07, 09:54 PM	I have 3 levels of human paragon to offset the advanced learning thing and I was thinking the "phantasmal Strangler" spell from Complete Mage. Plus that bonus feat can get me that metamagic school focus.
Xeraph 02-15-07, 07:46 AM	The truth: If you pick up a level of mindbender at 6th level, you'll delay access to the second expanded knowledge until you're capable of casting 4th level spells, which means you could pick up a 4th level shadow spell at 8th level, allowing you to qualify for shadowcraft mage at 9th level. Personally, I would take shadow well (SC) since it seems rather pointless to take shadow conjurations, given the class abilities of the shadowcraft mage. 1) Beguiler 1 Heighten Spell (1) Earth Sense (F) Earth Spell (F) 2) Beguiler 2 3) Beguiler 3 Spell Focus (Illusion) (3) 4) Beguiler 4 5) Beguiler 5 Silent Spell (B5) 6) Mind Bender 1 Mindsight (6) 7) Beguiler 6 8) Beguiler 7 expanded knowledge: shadow well 9) Shadowcraft Mage 1 10) Shadowcraft Mage 2 11) Shadowcraft Mage 3 12) Shadowcraft Mage 4 13) Shadowcraft Mage 5 After that going back to beguiler isnt a bad choice, given all the skill points you get. A few levels of fatespinner would work pretty well, given how save dependant a lot of the beguilers spells are. SF/GSF enchantment would make for decent feat choices, as would spell rehersal and mobile casting (or whatever its called). Extend spell is always nice for an enchantment heavy caster.
WombleHunter 02-15-07, 07:55 AM	An amusing one I came up with the other day: Silverbrow Human Beguiler with Mindbender 1 Level/Feat 1 Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) 3 Quicken Spell 5 (Beguiler Bonus) Silent Spell 6 Efficient Metamagic (Silent Spell) 9 Rapid Metamagic 11 (Beguiler Bonus) Still Spell 12 Efficient Metamagic (Still Spell) Thus, by 12th level all of your spells can be Still and Silent for no cost at all: you can walk into a room, think for a second and suddenly everyone in there is your best friend for no apparent reason. If someone resists, drop a Quickened Charm or something. You can also deliver your commands and Suggestions telepathically. Ok, so not hugely optimised unless you're playing an urban or intrigue game, I suppose. Still, having "invisible" spellcasting is cool, and I just liked the idea of a character that is always fawned over wherever he went, for no apparent reason...
Sithobi1 02-15-07, 08:10 AM	"Efficient Metamagic"? Where's that from? Practical Metamagic won't reduce the cost below 1...
WombleHunter 02-15-07, 09:28 AM	Races of the Dragon. You need the (Dragonblood) subtype to take the feats, which is why the character is a Silverbrow Human from Dragon Magic.