Beguiler/Nightmare Spinner/Dreadwitch/? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler/Nightmare Spinner/Dreadwitch/? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mod5000
01-02-07, 03:30 AM I've had a thought of making a nice Beguiler character that specializes in fear and illusion spells for a while now, and I wanted your advice on optimizing it so far. I also figure that the Absorb Fear from the Dread Witch will synergize nicely with the Immunity to Fear from the Nightmare Spinner, automatically making the save against the fear effects and getting stronger from them, since you'd allow things like illusions to affect you as well.

Here's what I've got to work with:

(Human)
1. Beguiler 1 (Feat) (Feat)
2. Beguiler 2
3. Beguiler 3 (Feat)
4. Beguiler 4
5. Beguiler 5
6. Beguiler 6 (Extra Spell: Cause Fear)
7. Nightmare Spinner 1
8. Nightmare Spinner 2
9. Nightmare Spinner 3 (Extra Spell: Scare)
10. Nightmare Spinner 4
11. Nightmare Spinner 5
12. Dread Witch 1 (Feat)
13. Dread Witch 2
14. Dread Witch 3
15. Dread Witch 4 (Feat)
16. Dread Witch 5
17-20: ?

So; what should I put in for levels 17-20, and what feats should I put in the build? (Thinking perhaps Battle Caster from Complete Arcane would be nice--walking around in Mithral Full Plate as a caster would be nice at high levels ^_^)

Sources are just about anything published by WotC, 3.0 and 3.5, though 3.5 supersedes 3.0 if there's an update.
mod5000
01-02-07, 02:08 PM :bump:
queen's rook
01-02-07, 02:55 PM I'm a huge fan of dread witch- fear effects that can bypass 'immunities'... sweet!

I think the optimization boards have forsaken the PrC because of it's 1st level loss of caster level. That, and it's craptastic name.

Away from books, but would gladly appreciate additions/corrections. Your fear effects have a charisma based DC. Beguiler spells are INT based. Beguiler also lacks the to required spells for PrC entry. I really like Beguiler, but it's a class that benifits alot from all 20 lvls and seems to not be the best starting point for the Dread Witch (great flavor though!)

Seems like there are many new sorceror variants- I'ld bet one of those might make a better base class.

You might look into feats that 'cause fear'- draconic feats come to mind. And just because illusions seems to play a part in your character idea, you might check out the Shadowcast Mage handbook for possible power-ups.

Love to hear some input from the skilled optimizers here. I really think Dread Witch has potential, and you have the start of a very flavorful character.
mod5000
01-02-07, 06:14 PM Hehe, that's the reason that both Extra Spell: Cause Fear and Extra Spell: Scare are in the build.

As for the MAD with cha/int, it's not something to worry overmuch about--only 2 of the Dread Witch abilities work off of Charisma, and one only affects creatures with 6 HD or less, and the other can be used 2/day at most, so even if we keep charisma at 14-16, it's not that big of a deal.

So; any idea for the last levels, and what the other feats should be?
queen's rook
01-02-07, 08:08 PM less concerned about MAD, more concern about expended feats.

bard has both spells, charisma based spellcasting, and some tasty substitution levels... kinda groovying on the idea of a gothed out half-elf using soothing voice on an opposing commander while his troops flee in terror.

remember the nappy little big bad for the R.O.D anime?
mod5000
01-02-07, 09:00 PM And if we HAD to go Beguiler, what would you recommend for a class to finish it up? And what feats could we take?
mod5000
01-03-07, 05:18 AM :bump:
Xeraph
01-03-07, 05:20 AM Mindbender 1 with Mindsight feat
FriendlyFrog
01-03-07, 05:22 AM The latest FAQ entry says that Extra spell can't be used to get a spell outside of your class list. But then again, it's based on the assumption that the feat specifically says so, which it doesn't.
mod5000
01-03-07, 05:24 AM So as long as that isn't a problem (and also because Cause Fear and Scare aren't game-breaking spells, and it's more for flavor and to get into Dread Witch), what else can we do with it? (Feats, Class Levels?)
TheHumanDynamo
01-03-07, 10:03 AM Mindbender1 with Mindsight as posted above, for the last 3 levels I'd go Beguiler to get the second cloaked casting, another advanced learning, more spells, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mod5000 01-02-07, 03:30 AM	I've had a thought of making a nice Beguiler character that specializes in fear and illusion spells for a while now, and I wanted your advice on optimizing it so far. I also figure that the Absorb Fear from the Dread Witch will synergize nicely with the Immunity to Fear from the Nightmare Spinner, automatically making the save against the fear effects and getting stronger from them, since you'd allow things like illusions to affect you as well. Here's what I've got to work with: (Human) 1. Beguiler 1 (Feat) (Feat) 2. Beguiler 2 3. Beguiler 3 (Feat) 4. Beguiler 4 5. Beguiler 5 6. Beguiler 6 (Extra Spell: Cause Fear) 7. Nightmare Spinner 1 8. Nightmare Spinner 2 9. Nightmare Spinner 3 (Extra Spell: Scare) 10. Nightmare Spinner 4 11. Nightmare Spinner 5 12. Dread Witch 1 (Feat) 13. Dread Witch 2 14. Dread Witch 3 15. Dread Witch 4 (Feat) 16. Dread Witch 5 17-20: ? So; what should I put in for levels 17-20, and what feats should I put in the build? (Thinking perhaps Battle Caster from Complete Arcane would be nice--walking around in Mithral Full Plate as a caster would be nice at high levels ^_^) Sources are just about anything published by WotC, 3.0 and 3.5, though 3.5 supersedes 3.0 if there's an update.
mod5000 01-02-07, 02:08 PM	:bump:
queen's rook 01-02-07, 02:55 PM	I'm a huge fan of dread witch- fear effects that can bypass 'immunities'... sweet! I think the optimization boards have forsaken the PrC because of it's 1st level loss of caster level. That, and it's craptastic name. Away from books, but would gladly appreciate additions/corrections. Your fear effects have a charisma based DC. Beguiler spells are INT based. Beguiler also lacks the to required spells for PrC entry. I really like Beguiler, but it's a class that benifits alot from all 20 lvls and seems to not be the best starting point for the Dread Witch (great flavor though!) Seems like there are many new sorceror variants- I'ld bet one of those might make a better base class. You might look into feats that 'cause fear'- draconic feats come to mind. And just because illusions seems to play a part in your character idea, you might check out the Shadowcast Mage handbook for possible power-ups. Love to hear some input from the skilled optimizers here. I really think Dread Witch has potential, and you have the start of a very flavorful character.
mod5000 01-02-07, 06:14 PM	Hehe, that's the reason that both Extra Spell: Cause Fear and Extra Spell: Scare are in the build. As for the MAD with cha/int, it's not something to worry overmuch about--only 2 of the Dread Witch abilities work off of Charisma, and one only affects creatures with 6 HD or less, and the other can be used 2/day at most, so even if we keep charisma at 14-16, it's not that big of a deal. So; any idea for the last levels, and what the other feats should be?
queen's rook 01-02-07, 08:08 PM	less concerned about MAD, more concern about expended feats. bard has both spells, charisma based spellcasting, and some tasty substitution levels... kinda groovying on the idea of a gothed out half-elf using soothing voice on an opposing commander while his troops flee in terror. remember the nappy little big bad for the R.O.D anime?
mod5000 01-02-07, 09:00 PM	And if we HAD to go Beguiler, what would you recommend for a class to finish it up? And what feats could we take?
mod5000 01-03-07, 05:18 AM	:bump:
Xeraph 01-03-07, 05:20 AM	Mindbender 1 with Mindsight feat
FriendlyFrog 01-03-07, 05:22 AM	The latest FAQ entry says that Extra spell can't be used to get a spell outside of your class list. But then again, it's based on the assumption that the feat specifically says so, which it doesn't.
mod5000 01-03-07, 05:24 AM	So as long as that isn't a problem (and also because Cause Fear and Scare aren't game-breaking spells, and it's more for flavor and to get into Dread Witch), what else can we do with it? (Feats, Class Levels?)
TheHumanDynamo 01-03-07, 10:03 AM	Mindbender1 with Mindsight as posted above, for the last 3 levels I'd go Beguiler to get the second cloaked casting, another advanced learning, more spells, etc.